Serious questions about the Tea Party Divide between them and us.

I watched a little bit of the Tea Party Gathering (as much as I could stand) and something occurred to me.

It seems that a lot of the difference has less to do with politics and actual issues than culture. In some respects the main difference between them and us is some nebulous cultural difference.

First of all, although there are certainly a contingent of racists among them, I don't think it's a white people's racist movement.

In some respects they have the same set of resentments that we do. They feel shut out and they see the country being run by a pack of elites who run roughshod over the common people. They dislike the MSM and Beltway pundits. Sound familiar?

And it's not really a class difference. Until they being to spout off and express themselves, they could be basic old-syle liberal populists.

Which gets to the crux of the question. They are conservative, to say the least. Okay, but what put them on that side of the divide? What

What is it with these people that makes them dislike us so much, and vice versa? They are not all that different from people who decided at some point that it's time to "kick the ass of the ruling class" and become unionists or blue-collar Democrats or kick-ass progressives. Except they took a different turn.

But it's a real cultural divide -- almost tribal. They hate "liberals" as much as they hate "elites"?

What makes a person channel their social anger and urge for change in that direction, rather than taking a more leftward one?

Just wondering.

They believe that Jesus gave them the US to rule ... and now that they are out of power, they are PISSED.

That is the short answer. Add ... the Corporate GOP uses them as FUEL.

Except teabaggers don't have a clue as to what's really going on. They get their "information" from talk radio and the fox opinion channel.

Not all of them are ill informed. Just a different cast to the information they accept.

That's what I can't figure out. How two groups of people can look at the same realities and come to such different conclusions.

They think you and I have swallowed a bunch of lies.

I'm not defending their worldview. But it baffles me how people presented with similar realities can respond so differently.

The question is important if we are ever to figure out how to beat the bastids.

Because I think it forces people to think about why they picked a side, and it isn't always so moral and heroic.

I've become more disillusioned with politics because I don't think either the repub or dem party's are serious about what they sell to their members. I think people pick a side because they have a few values (conservative/libertarion or liberal/green) that makes a side appealing, and then once they pick a side, they just pull for their team like people pull for sports teams.

If McCain had won, sworn to close G-bay in 1 year, and didn't follow through, no one here would make an excuse for him. Now that it is our boy in there, no one really cares that much...at least enough to not make excuses for him.

MSNBC isn't any better than FOX, they just spout more appealing crap...at least to DU members.

I bet a lot of tea party members may have had a few values that overlap with someone like Sarah Palin, such as gun ownership rights, maybe lower taxes, or something else. I bet a lot of them don't care about who is gay, they probably are more pro environment than we give them credit for, and so forth. But they may care more about those few values, that they just adopt the other ones...and I bet a lot of us do the same.

I know for myself, when I was very young (in the 60's) something just kicked in that said "I'm a liberal." Or a progressive (or as it was called back then New Left.") And that's the "side" I've stuck with all these years.

I don't know how much of that is some emotional thing and how much is intellectual. I am able to understand the basis for conservative thinking, and I think that there is a large overlap between what conservatives and liberals ultimately believe in.

But on another level, I am a reverse Tea Partier. Liberal/progressive values just make sense to me and seem more logical and decent than conservative ones.

But I do think it kind of sucks that we have gotten so tribal about it.

People associated with all these right wing think tanks love to give themselves titles like "Distinguished Fellow" or "Visiting Scholar."

anti-education.

But it's a comforting thought.

My wife is part of their "base." She's tenure-track faculty. Hardly anti-science and hardly anti-education.

high taxes. It is that simple. My parents are conservatives who like Palin and could almost be tea party types. The screech about their taxes being too high all the time but when I explain the corporations take way more then taxes away from us, they just don't get it. They think capitalism is still the way to go and we think it is broken. They think govt has infringed on their rights when in reality govt has allowed big corps to infringe on us. I would say they are naive.

They don;t seem to realize (or care) that whether one agrees or disagrees with capitalism, it has a core flaw, which is that those who have wealth and power will continue to build on that, unless they are restrained and required to be good citizens by government. Without that, "free enterprise" capitalism is replaced by monopolistic crony capitalism.

And if it did and there was no safety net we would be like China with the amount of illnesses from products. Corps are allowed to do so much now, imagine if all the safety regulations were gone? All govt. oversight was gone? The thing is, the Rethug party does not want laissez-faire capitalism, they want to have corporate welfare so they get the kickbacks. Teabaggers are a bit naive that all politicians play that game.

A wolf in sheep clothing. Analyzing it any further only gives them more life. I'm not fooled and give them neither credibility nor credence. Especially since they can't spell. If it looks like shit, smells like shit, I give you the GOP.

They only way to counteract them is to first understand them.

they are the extreme right wing of the GOP expressing their first amendment rights though overt sedition ...

They are Rs who simply cannot accept the last presidential election and if they had any balls would actually grap a rifle and do the overt act of revolution ... As is, they are just screaming about it ...

There is no reaching them, no finding a middle ground. As noted in the OP, it does not matter one iota if you agree on the fundamental issues 100 percent, if you are a liberal, you are the satan spawn of Stalin.

They have never voted for a D, have almost always voted R except maybe some lunatic even further to the right, and never will vote D or for anything other than an R ...

Really?

I would bet that a lot of them are scared of the nation being taken over by illegal immigrants.

Humans are complicated critters...and we can be paradoxical. My mother was an intelligent liberal Democrat who loved Obama and hated Republicans. But she would have agreed with Tommy on that issue.

Not defending that, but it is fear......Now if they invited David Duke, that'd be somethiong else.

and that we should have literacy tests and he was heartily applauded for it.

Now, we all know that illegal immigrants don't vote so he's talking about LEGAL immigrants and people who are born here.

He is a racist pig and maybe people follow his racist pig ideas because they are afraid but that doesn't make them any less racist. People didn't want civil rights legislation to pass because they feared those AAs taking their jobs. They didn't want slavery to end because they feared slaves taking their jobs. Hatred fueled by fear is still hatred.

... and no, I'm not linking to it.

We ARE The Traditional American Movement

We believe that the Founding Principles of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence and all of America’s other honored traditions are in danger of being lost and WE WILL NOT ALLOW THAT.

We will not be ruled. We will not be usurped. WE are sovereign individuals and demand our rights which are our freedoms from tyrannical government. We speak in many voices, each singing our own part of the chorus, and each following our own melody. We are all united in a single song of praise to the greatest Nation in the history of Man and we will not allow any substitutes.

To accomplish our missions we must find a way to a common theme that no one can misinterpret, that no enemy can ignore. We must awaken the citizens who are still on the sidelines, wondering what we are saying. They are finally alert and paying attention so now we must speak clearly with a voice that they can understand without confusion and agree to join for the good of all of our children. We are the Traditional Americans.

We are what we once were. We have our families which we cherish, our rights to our own choices, free of interference from the rule of others we disagree with and fierce in our stance in defense of our God given rights. We see the agenda of the communists and globalists, blatantly displayed for the first time, and we stand in full opposition to it.

AND ….. we outnumber them. Our weapons are Truth and Honest Action. We are the Traditional Americans that free men and those who want to be free admire and appeal to when they are threatened with tyrants. We will defeat our own would be tyrants beginning now. STAND TOGETHER !!

Pretty much sums it up. "______ are destroying traditional American culture ...." and ______ is "the blacks" or "the Mexicans" or "the gays" or "the non-Christians" (even though their own lives is often devoid of the very Christianity they claim to follow.)

WASPs (at least the straight ones) have been running the show for the last four hundred years and they're fearful of losing that power. It's a survival mechanism.

"WASPs (at least the straight ones) have been running the show for the last four hundred years and they're fearful of losing that power. It's a survival mechanism."

.... and when an animal feels threated, whether it really is or not, it lashes out.

That's all this is. Fear.

They are afraid. Liberals are not. They fear anything that is different from their own comfy, little bubbles. Why do you think they keep whining, "I want my country back!"? What do they want back? A time when non-white people and women knew their place. Add a greed and religious insanity into the mix, too. They also want to go back to a time when it was okay to do things in the name of their god and Jeebus that they can't get away with now--like exploiting minorities, the poor, and workers, along with pillaging the environment. I got mine, screw you.

The DLCers encourage us to bash working class people in "red" states as uncultured, brutish "morans" while the GOP encourages dislike of "liberal intellectuals".

They embrace hate and no, I'm not going to join them.

If you grow up in their midst like I did, the answer is self-explanatory.

It's too easy to dismiss people who tend in that direction as assholes.

It is important to understand why that mentality is so pervasive and why people buy into nonsense that is ultimately self-destructive to their own interests.

Plus, I think it's an interesting exercise in human nature that is curious how people diverge so much in their opinions.

Even though he never did.

It seems to me that the movement is based off of a deep-seeded hatred of Obama.

is it the extreme right wing of the republican party acting out its first amendment rights though sedition over a D, a black one at that, winning the presidency ... If they had balls, they would take up arms and do the revolution they keep talking about. As is, they are just screaming about it ...

we got pissed when the presidential election was stolen in 2000 and when he had to watch them drive America off a fucking cliff

Sorry.... it's a fraud.

and that is what they have been taught liberals are. We're Dirty Fucking Hippies. Even though pot is more or less legal where I live, my mother, who hates "potsmokers" rejects me because I smoke pot--I'm a DFH. It's superficial, and a fear that's near racial in its bigotry (and stupidity,) but her churchgoing neighbors have taught her that we are dirty and hang with blacks and are unacceptable because of that. Pot is associated with jazz and blacks (from the early days)and LIBERALISM and they just can't stand it, the dirtiness (supposed) and the un-kemptness (because of the long hair) and it just makes their skin crawl. Even though they themselves might live in filthy hovels smelling of garbage and dog feces, somehow our dirtiness is unacceptable whereas their dirtiness is blessed by god. Go figure. It's base and intolerant and vulgar, but that's the explanation in my experience. They join the marines and get all cleaned up and shaved and regimental and they think they are superior even though they have become torturing killers who hate blacksand asians just because they are not wjite. Even fellow marines.

My mom is a little different, she respects certain blacks and knows them as coworkers and friends (her friends are somehow different than those dirty blacks she hates) but if a white girl "joins up" with the blacks suddenly she's no good. My dad, a marine, just could not stand the long hair or the disrespect hippies have for the almighty flag (i.e., WAR). Even though the hippie movement is decades dead, they still keep the hate. It's wrong, it's irrational, but it's in their guts, it's incurable.

end rant.

As Drew Westen pointed out in his book a few years back. The emotions sway us to political action much more than reason and the repugs have learned exceptionally well how to manipulate them. Then the media does its little dance of objectivity (he said/she said; the truth is there somewhere) and all that is left is to trigger the visceral fear. What fear? Loss of job, loss of value, loss of acceptance, and loss of power. Those that have the time and energy to stay informed have the same fears but know much better where to see the causes and I think that is what makes us "progressives'/liberals. Not more intelligent though because there is no such animal as an omnipotent/omniscient liberal. It is emotion there too.
By the way I do prefer liberal because as a student of history I am reminded that many things "progressive" were really racist and xenophobic in the early 20th century. A good deal of gross evil was mixed with the many good ideas of that era.

I agree it is not primarily a racist movement. My niece is a die-hard, marching on DC, teabagger. She is married for 25 years to a black man. Has a half black daughter and now a black grand son. He is her pride and joy. Her hubby is non political. Her daughter hates Obama. My sister who is the mother of this niece is a huge racist and teabagger. She does not even tell people she has a black great grandson.
So a dedicated racist raised a total non racist and both are teabaggers. I have to note here that none of the above are well educated or intellectually curious. They follow the faux screed and Beck is God. They are all fundies who talk the talk, but don't do a very good job of walking the walk. I love them all dearly, but I know they are my enemy. It is a heartbreak for me.


On a good note...............Bon temps roulez.....BLESS YOU BOYZ

since Goldwater lost in 64. They made a concerted effort to take over by starting with local governing boards and gradually moving into higher positions without exposing their hidden agenda. They demonized the media as being liberal and demonized all things not conservative reactionary. Reagan made the word liberal a pejorative and Luntz and Gingrich formalized this strategy in an instructive screed on using language to make Democrats unacceptable.
They play to the worst fears and lowest instincts of the uneducated and those with limited critical thinking skills.
They promoted the great dumbing down and exploited the results. They have their own TV network that spews propaganda that's reinforced 24 hours a day by hate radio.
By taking thinking out of the equation they have a soft audience that is essentially too lazy to think for itself.
Now they demonize intelligence and education as some sort of elite values.
For the dupes and rubes who follow the conservative dogma life is simple. Thinking is hard work.

They are bullshit in the extreme. I watched their little grassroots organization plan Saturday afternoon and oddly enough in their canvassing efforts regularly voting Republicans could be ignored as they could be trusted to vote the right way. The concerns were fishing through independents and a once over for Democrats that have voted Republican.

They are just a rebranding/reenergization effort of the same clowns we've been fighting forever. I don't understand why this is being thought about as a new movement with convincible people being suckered in but there has been little to no talk of converting hard core regressives in the past.
I think it's a good mental exercise but if you think these bullies and blowhard cowards are going to change without an Epiphany or an asskicking, you're approaching deluded.

They hate self determination, culture, economic justice, equality, religious expression that isn't their own, education, applying a system of laws equally, the presumption of innocence, cultural diversity, and a changing world to start.

for gutting of social programs (a small fact that seems to escape the "we are teabaggers too" crowd here ) etc..In short they are in every way exactly like their conservative, republican leaders and while I don't detest them (its not their fault I guess that they are as insane and ignorant as they are) I certainly don't have anything in common with them and their world view-teach creationism in schools, make people even more proudly embrace ignorance and illiteracy than they already do in this country etc. is not something I support in the slightest...
This is the worst kind of thuggish, bruet force type of "populism"...