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Va Lefty

(6,252 posts)
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:03 AM Jan 2018

Traitor don not crazy, just a terrible person, says Psychiatrist

"Allen calls out the “societal disease” that helped sweep Trump into office, but stops short of historicizing it as a foundational virtue of a country established in slavery and genocide instead of a recently emergent issue. If Trump is a “bad person” because of his unabashed racism, misogyny, homophobia and Islamophobia—the defining traits of his public persona and presidential candidacy—then a vote for Trump, and thus those positions, says something significant about the morality of Trump voters. How can anyone ask for empathy for those who cast ballots for vengeance and white power because they imagined their status slipping away, even while communities of color continue to struggle in far more life-threatening ways—a struggle exacerbated in the last year by the result of those votes?"

"He's been rewarded for being this narcissistic idiot his whole life, not punished for it. He has not hidden himself. He is the most transparent personality in the world. Every thought is out there in a tweet. He has been this person throughout his whole life. He won the election—admittedly with the help of rigging and gerrymandering—but with this personality on full display."

"When the Harvey Weinsteins and Tiger Woods and all the others get caught with their pants down, the first claim is sex addiction: “I'll go off for a rehab program and I'll be cured in a month.” We're medicalizing immorality. We're medicalizing people who rape and say they have mental disorders. Bad behavior is part of the variety of human nature. Only a small portion of bad behaviors are done by people who are mentally ill. Most bad people are not mentally ill; most mentally ill people aren't bad. When we confuse the two, it's a stigmatizing insult to the mentally ill. It's terrible for them to be lumped with Trump because most of them are well-meaning and well-behaved, and Trump is neither."

https://www.alternet.org/election-2016/trump-isnt-crazy-hes-just-terrible-person-leading-psychiatrist

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Traitor don not crazy, just a terrible person, says Psychiatrist (Original Post) Va Lefty Jan 2018 OP
No, Trump is crazy, and he is evil too. nt Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #1
He's making a serious point about morality DemocracyMouse Jan 2018 #9
I did read it and I disagree vehemently. Trump is immoral and crazy. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #17
I just downloaded Dr. Frances's book after reading that article. nt tblue37 Jan 2018 #2
I read Allen's book along with the one edited by Dr. Bandy Lee mnhtnbb Jan 2018 #3
I don't think he's crazy either. He has just turned being an asshole into smirkymonkey Jan 2018 #4
He's evil, he's wicked, his feet stink, and he don't love the baby Jesus nt Xipe Totec Jan 2018 #5
It's that kinda morning... BobTheSubgenius Jan 2018 #18
Donald Trump has one priority, TNNurse Jan 2018 #6
I think there is a line, where a messed up person, a bad person... LuckyCharms Jan 2018 #7
I agree with you PatSeg Jan 2018 #10
"He is the most transparent personality in the world" PatSeg Jan 2018 #8
Here's a translation: MORALITY IS SYSTEMIC DemocracyMouse Jan 2018 #11
Great points! lunatica Jan 2018 #16
Very insightful and well said. BobTheSubgenius Jan 2018 #20
....... trusty elf Jan 2018 #12
I love the rag magazine and the Forbes magazine touch! lunatica Jan 2018 #15
Excellently stated. zentrum Jan 2018 #13
Excellent post! lunatica Jan 2018 #14
Bearing Godwin's Law firmly in mind... BobTheSubgenius Jan 2018 #22
Is denying objective reality a form of mental illness? BobTheSubgenius Jan 2018 #19
While I agree with the sentiment re: Trump being evil & a spoiled brat, Crash2Parties Jan 2018 #21
I am not well-versed in the DSM, so that was a good piece of information for me. BobTheSubgenius Jan 2018 #23
His antisocial behavior Generic Other Jan 2018 #24
says more about the people who voted for him than it does about Trump Skittles Jan 2018 #25
Yes it does. I don't think they were fooled. Va Lefty Jan 2018 #26
That has been my argument all along Docreed2003 Jan 2018 #27

Irish_Dem

(47,928 posts)
17. I did read it and I disagree vehemently. Trump is immoral and crazy.
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 01:25 PM
Jan 2018

And he has much more insanity than just NPD.

mnhtnbb

(31,417 posts)
3. I read Allen's book along with the one edited by Dr. Bandy Lee
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:18 AM
Jan 2018

titled The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump.

I do agree that Trump IS dangerous and I also agree with Allen that we are in this mess because so many people
voted for a dangerous con man. What does it say about the voters--and the future of our country--that so many
people would buy into a self destructive option? I think it is just as important to focus on the self-destructiveness
of the voters--and the other elected Republicans who are supporting a dangerous con man--as it is to understand
why and what makes Trump so dangerous.

I really do fear for the future of the country. We're in a horrible mess. Even if Mueller's investigation results in
Trump being removed from office, then we have to deal with Pence or Ryan. Neither one of them is going
to change the direction in which things are headed. We're in a big mess.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
4. I don't think he's crazy either. He has just turned being an asshole into
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:25 AM
Jan 2018

an art-form. The man is the biggest asshole I have ever seen in my life. How he has gotten this far in life without being covered in scar tissue from regular beatings is a mystery to me.

TNNurse

(6,931 posts)
6. Donald Trump has one priority,
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:43 AM
Jan 2018

that is Donald Trump. His only concern is what benefits him in the moment.

LuckyCharms

(17,472 posts)
7. I think there is a line, where a messed up person, a bad person...
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:47 AM
Jan 2018

becomes so messed up and bad that they can legitimately be classified as crazy. I'm sure psychiatrists would disagree with me, but for all practical purposes, Trump is so bad, he's crazy.

PatSeg

(47,750 posts)
10. I agree with you
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 12:42 PM
Jan 2018

If you look back on Trump's life, you see an immoral, selfish man, but I think he is now becoming unhinged and possibly crazy.

PatSeg

(47,750 posts)
8. "He is the most transparent personality in the world"
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 12:38 PM
Jan 2018

Though the man is a pathological liar, he has never disguised who he really is, as such it is not so much Trump that upsets me, but the millions of people who support such a person.

Excellent observation in the article, "We're medicalizing immorality". "Most bad people are no mentally ill; most mentally ill people aren't bad."

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
11. Here's a translation: MORALITY IS SYSTEMIC
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 12:48 PM
Jan 2018

Morality isn't held soley by individuals. It is encoded in society, in its film, literature and legislation. THE ASSHOLE is condoned by our collective embrace of the individual as more important than the collective. It's a belief system that the Womens' Marches, thank goodness, are challenging – and fantastically so.

It's not that there is no place at all for individualism, it's that it ferments into full-on narcissism if the media and the culture feeds it.

We need a better balance between the individual and society.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
15. I love the rag magazine and the Forbes magazine touch!
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 12:57 PM
Jan 2018

The other details are funny too. And the flag says 1775!

And the vultures outside sitting in the tree!

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
14. Excellent post!
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 12:53 PM
Jan 2018

It serves quite well to course correct my thinking. Trump's mental faculties might or might not be deteriorating but falling for the idea of mental illness lets him off the hook. I've dealt with enough narcissists and people with a mean streak to know better. Reading this interview has corrected my mental drift.

This quote really hit home:

"Trump is, without a doubt, a world-class narcissist. Not just among the great narcissists of our day, but among the great narcissists of all time. You have to go back to Nero in Rome maybe to find someone as self-involved and destructive as he is."

He can probably be compared to every despot in history and the similarities would be legion.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,580 posts)
22. Bearing Godwin's Law firmly in mind...
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 01:55 PM
Jan 2018

...I think that's sufficient in terms of description. There must have been some true and massive mental illness going on there, though. The "self-involved and destructive" sure apply.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,580 posts)
19. Is denying objective reality a form of mental illness?
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 01:50 PM
Jan 2018

Is NPD a mental illness? Medical professionals seem pretty unanimous in describing it as a mental "disorder." No one seems to define a difference, though.

I know someone quite well that has either NPD or BPD (Bordrerline), or a melange of both. Hard to distinguish between the two, at least for me.

I do know that the only treatment for BPD is behavior modification, which is difficult in the extreme to achieve.

Crash2Parties

(6,017 posts)
21. While I agree with the sentiment re: Trump being evil & a spoiled brat,
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 01:54 PM
Jan 2018

I find it hard to take a psych seriously that uses ableist terms like, "idiot" (which actually means developmentally disabled) and throws around "narcissistic" as if narcissism wasn't an mental illness actual listing in the DSM.

Makes the "expert" come off as exceedingly unprofessional & thus not exactly trustworthy.

I'd have much preferred an actual analysis that included where he seems to tread into mental illness and where it's clear that Trump is simply a white, wealthy, male spoiled brat with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,580 posts)
23. I am not well-versed in the DSM, so that was a good piece of information for me.
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 02:00 PM
Jan 2018

My late friend had an incredible grasp of the entire manual...to the point that she rose into a position in our mental health care system that technically require a Master's. She did not have one, clearly, but she was so knowledgeable that she interviewed and tested better than those who did.

The two of us could have chewed this bone into dust, but that's far from the only reason a miss her.

Thank you for your unit of wisdom.

Skittles

(153,306 posts)
25. says more about the people who voted for him than it does about Trump
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 03:37 PM
Jan 2018

how could so many people be fooled by such a disgusting man

Docreed2003

(16,902 posts)
27. That has been my argument all along
Sun Jan 21, 2018, 03:55 PM
Jan 2018

His actions aren’t driven just by his dementia, Trump is truly a dick at heart.

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