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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRush Limbaugh and his listeners, along with FOX news seem to be on an alternate universe
The Russia investigation is encircling Trump and his gang with more evidence coming to light almost every other day, and here is Limbaugh/Fox people talking like the FBI is the agency that should be investigated, and poor Trump should be left alone.
These people are so detached from reality, I think when the indictments and the naming of Trump as the "unindicted co-conspirator" comes from the result of this investigation, and also when Mueller nails Trump for his many obstructions of justices and intimidating of witnesses (iron-clad evidence abound), that they will completely lose it. 65-70 percent of the American people, as polls indicate, think that Trump and his team have done something illegal when it comes to their Russia connections. Only the die hard 30-35 percent Trump worshippers think he is innocent.
The people are on Mueller's and the FBI's side.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)individuals, such as Hannity, Limbaugh, Jones and the herd have banded them together into one ugly delusional force.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Nwgirl503
(406 posts)It's so bizarre. When I've asked for proof of any of these supposed "investigations" of HRC, Obama, Rice, Holder, etc the only answer is it has to be kept very hush hush so that's why there's no proof of them. Yet the obvious proof of all the investigations pending on trump et al: that's just a witch hunt by librul snowflake deep-staters and corrupt IC depts in an effort to overthrow the election results.
I sincerely wonder if it's a mental deficiency that allows them to answer a conspiracy theory with a conspiracy theory, no matter what the situation is.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)is why mental tests should be used as part of a candidate's qualification process. We are far too lax in this country.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)And authoritarian leaders. They've been studied extensively since WWII. Scary people but fortunately a minority. It's when others join them in a movement with bad leaders that nations fall. They've currently committed unquestioning loyalty to Trump, and we really should wonder what Pence, for instance, or whoever is already lining up to lead them in future might turn them to.
Most of the more recent research is disguised behind arcane technical jargon for protection, and the term "authoritarian followers," nor is right wing authoris not used by professionals, but Dr. Bob Altemeyer's findings are still considered mostly very valid. He republished them for lay readers in his seminal "The Authoritarians" and made it free on line to the public because he felt it was critically important to understand these people.
Strangely for such a subject, it's also an extremely enjoyable read.
Oh, just discovered he updated this website in pre-election 2016 with a new cover essay on "Donald Trump and Authoritarian Followers," which pretty much summarizes them.
https://theauthoritarians.org/
muntrv
(14,505 posts)They ARE in an alternate universe.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)yesterday. He called it the "deep state," but he meant our government.
It builds on similar bloviating by Sean Hannity, and others, but particularly notably that woman anchor whose name I keep forgetting, but her performance never. She just needed a German military uniform complete the fascist call to war.
This isn't the first time, though. Back after Obama was elected the first time Glenn Beck was calling for an armed uprising, and other anchors pushed the idea.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)is getting a bit mentally dissociated, or he's doing what he needs to do to keep the money rolling in for him. It could be a combination of both IMO.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I think he is like millions of others of his type for whom the situation evolved. They would take over our government if they could.
Check this out. Altemeyer's research is old and many have been studying it since, but he's still very well regarded in his field.
https://theauthoritarians.org/donald-trump-and-authoritarian-followers/#more-21
Btw, his book also discusses authoritarian leaders. Interestingly, many followers are in leadership positions, i.e., elected to congress, etc. Makes sense when you realize their party has always been organized around centralized, top-down authority structures. Also that many are very religious, like Pence, god the ultimate authority figure. The party's uncharacteristically fractured right now, but the arguably most powerful man in the house currently is Mark Meadows, the leader of the Koch founded "Freedom caucus." Secretive but believed to have 30-40 members who keep their mouths shut and vote as instructed by their leader.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Wanna-be tyrants in a democracy are just comical figures on soapboxes when they have no following. So the real threat lay coiled in parts of the population itself, it was thought, ready someday to catapult the next Hitler to power with their votes.
That apprehension was well-founded, it turns out. Research indicates that a bedrock 20-25% of the adults in North America is highly vulnerable to a demagogue who would incite hatred of various minorities to gain power. These people are constantly waiting for a tough law and order, man on horseback who will supposedly solve all our problems through the ruthless application of force. When such a person gains prominence, you can expect the authoritarian followers to mate devotedly with the authoritarian leader, because each gives the other something they desperately want: the feeling of safety for the followers, and the tremendous power of the modern state for the leader.
I would not say that all of the people trying to surge Donald Trump into the White House are authoritarian followers. But they almost certainly compose his hard core base.
Where are the rest coming from? Various places, such as white males who fear their status in society is eroding and those who cannot abide a Hillary Clinton presidency. But authoritarianism rises in a population that feels threatened, and many Americans today are anxious about their familys economic future, not to mention the throbbing fear of terrorist attacks. Many of them are clutching at straws.
The hard-core authoritarians can't be reasoned with, and he's proven many really would support their chosen leader murdering someone in the street, as this one has bragged.
We have to outvote them.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)part the past has been pretty good, the US has always cruised along through good and bad times. It reminds me so well of the Germans that did not pay much attention to the rise of Hitler, it was they said just a fad. America has really not dealt with this ... the closest I can think of was Joseph McCarthy. I'm not sure what will shock more Americans into taking notice. This country is so ripe for a significant rise in authoritarianism. Just the fact Trump is president is a real shock. ... but he continues on. Hopefully Mueller will be able to throw a log under his wheels.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Anxiety increases vulnerability to authoritarian leaders, and that 20-25% who would have latched, onto Trump, as Altemeyer points out, in good times has increased.
But most Americans are still appalled. We're not used to this and can't even imagine authoritarian government enough to be afraid, much less want it.
What we know is our long, strong history of stable liberal western democracy. Our government isn't centralized, and authoritarian governments have always cropped up locally. But not federally. Over more than 2 centuries, the federal governments voted into being by the electorate have mostly been successful keepers of the flame and applier of constitutional standards to the states. Of course, there are dark moments in our history, but they're failures, not norms.
So far our government systems, which Mueller is a servant of, are holding. Our role in them is enormously larger, though. Germany and Iran are only two of the democracies that were destroyed by their own voters, after all.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)He's weird but he's stable and intelligent at his work. But if you get anywhere near his politics you quickly realize that he is a paranoid and irrational right winger. I think the right wing authoritarianism fits right in with his mental illness.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)a good way to refer to what might be traits of personality disorder, or of mental illness. How strange that Trump has been president for a year, after over a year of national campaigning, and people still aren't talking about personality disorder, even on DU, although I notice more is being published.
There's long been discussion that "pathological bias," including race-based of course, should be considered a type of mental disorder -- like other personality traits manifested so strongly that they make one unable to function adequately.
Sure, let's do that today. I'm imagining the uproar at the mental health professions officially declaring some of the more rabid types we've all run into mentally disordered, probably large number of them Trump supporters these days. Ooohwee!
Of course, it'd only apply to a few.
VOX
(22,976 posts)The entire GOP is coalescing around their "Imperfect Vessel who is doing God's work in the White House." In their minds, there's no collusion, no conspiracy, no wrongdoing, no cognitive impairment and certainly no lawbreaking. In GOP "reality," Trump is under attack by the "liberal, Soros-funded Deep State," and everybody's out to get him. THEY HAVE THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT UNDER THEIR CONTROL, YET THEY ACT LIKE THEY ARE UNDER SIEGE.
If Democrats slip in this year's midterms, the entire show might be over. Please VOTE!
OneGrassRoot
(22,923 posts)a couple of days ago on The View.
She said working at Fox is amazing for conservatives. Everyone thinks alike and you're "in a bubble." When you leave Fox, reality is brutal.
We know that, of course. But I don't think she realized the core truth she revealed in that statement as her intention was to express how hard it is for conservatives in media, outside of Fox. Hopefully any Fox sympathizers who watch (as few as they may be) realized what she admitted about their bubble.