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babylonsister

(171,113 posts) Thu Jun 21, 2018, 01:48 PM Jun 2018

Pierce: This Country Was Born in Incivility. Being 'Civil' Won't Save It Now.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a21750189/donald-trump-incivility-new-york-times/

This Country Was Born in Incivility. Being 'Civil' Won't Save It Now.
Neither will burying the truth under false equivalences between bad words and racism.
By Charles P. Pierce
Jun 21, 2018

snip//

Maybe the country is full of enough racists, xenophobes, nativists, and angry idiots that it elected a dangerous buffoon to lead it, and maybe that’s a more important subject than whether or not somebody said a mean thing to Ivanka Trump. Maybe calling the Trump voters what they are, based on what they’ve done to the rest of us, is more important to the survival of the Republic than what three jamokes in a diner think of brown people who are coming to murder them in their beds.

Jesus, Duluth is 1676 miles from the southern border at Brownsville and, anyway, immigration has been good for Duluth’s local economy. So why did people there on Wednesday night applaud wildly this brand of truthless slander?

"The Democrats want open borders. Let everybody come in. Let everybody pour in, we don't care, let them come in from the Middle East, let them come in from all over the place. We don't care. We're not going to let it happen. Today I signed an executive order. We are going to keep families together, but the border is going to be just as tough as it's been. Democrats don't care about the impact of uncontrolled migration on your communities. Democrats put illegal immigrants before they put American citizens. What the hell is going on?"

I guarantee you it wasn’t because Kathy Griffin made a video.

I wish our politics were less wild, less driven by fear and hate and greed. But, alas, they are, and only one side leveraged fear and hate and greed so successfully through the years as to put a gibbering racist in the White House. Forgive me if I put civility on the back shelf for a while and, instead, take as my navigating star the words of William Lloyd Garrison, writing in the first issue of The Liberator.

I am aware that many object to the severity of my language; but is there not cause for severity? I will be as harsh as truth, and as uncompromising as justice. On this subject, I do not wish to think, or to speak, or write, with moderation. No! no! Tell a man whose house is on fire to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hands of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen; — but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present. I am in earnest — I will not equivocate — I will not excuse — I will not retreat a single inch — AND I WILL BE HEARD.

That will do for now.

6 replies

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Highlight:

Pierce: This Country Was Born in Incivility. Being 'Civil' Won't Save It Now. (Original Post) babylonsister Jun 2018 OP

That's going to require Democrats to be brash, blunt, brutish, and uncivil... vi5 Jun 2018 #1

lincoln DonCoquixote Jun 2018 #2

People can compromise themselves right into tyranny. Solly Mack Jun 2018 #3

And people can rage into tyranny as well mythology Jun 2018 #5

Yes, and right now those raging us into tyranny are Trump supporters. Solly Mack Jun 2018 #6

It strikes me as very odd that people think we can't do better than in the 1770s mythology Jun 2018 #4

vi5

(13,305 posts)

1. That's going to require Democrats to be brash, blunt, brutish, and uncivil...

Reply to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu Jun 21, 2018, 01:58 PM

Jun 2018

..I can only think of a few who fit that bill.

It will require us to occasionally take a risk, to occasionally support things which are not safe and comfortable and be concerned not that that the all important tastemakers on the DC beltway media cocktail party circuit say nice things about us but whether it excites people.

We've tried to take the high road. It got us nothing except walked all over. We tried to be the "adults in the room" and it got us out of power at all levels of government, only now barely clawing our way back at the edges.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)

2. lincoln

Reply to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu Jun 21, 2018, 02:04 PM

Jun 2018

I blame Lincoln, actually. If he hadn’t delivered the greatest speech ever by an American president, his Second Inaugural Address, we might not be quite as addicted to premature “healing” as we are. But Lincoln had an excuse. The country was trying to reassemble itself after the incredibly sanguinary effort necessary to crush treason and eliminate chattel slavery.

All the same, it is apparent that what we are not fighting is a new war, but the old civil war that folks like Nathan Bedford Forrest never stopped fighting. I hate to say it, but these people have told me loud and clear they do not consider Hispanics like me as countrymen, despite how many of our kin are planted in Veteran's cemeteries. If that is the case, we will not make the mistake Lincoln did, all this "malice toward none and charity towards all." We should have hanged Jeff Davis, and shot Robert E. Lee, and we should be prepared to do the same to any of the dozens who are eagerly continuing their work!

Solly Mack

(90,803 posts)

3. People can compromise themselves right into tyranny.

Reply to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu Jun 21, 2018, 02:07 PM

Jun 2018

mythology

(9,527 posts)

5. And people can rage into tyranny as well

Reply to Solly Mack (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 21, 2018, 02:14 PM

Jun 2018

The French Revolution is a wonderful example of that.

Solly Mack

(90,803 posts)

6. Yes, and right now those raging us into tyranny are Trump supporters.

Reply to mythology (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 21, 2018, 02:18 PM

Jun 2018

Fighting against that isn't rage - it's survival.

mythology

(9,527 posts)

4. It strikes me as very odd that people think we can't do better than in the 1770s

Reply to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu Jun 21, 2018, 02:12 PM

Jun 2018

Other things that were common back then include slavery and women being effectively property.

Pierce also fundamentally misses a crucial concept. He says you wouldn't tell somebody to moderately save somebody from a burning house, but you also shouldn't advise people run in without thinking. There's a reason airlines tell you to secure your own breathing apparatus first. Acting rashly makes for bad decisions. Is it better to rush in without thinking or better to get protective gear to increase your odds? Is it better to rush through the flames or go outside, break the bedroom window and get the other person out without going through the flames?

In martial arts, the person who loses their mind, generally loses the contest. The other day I was raging internally and couldn't balance on a rail because I let my anger override my training.

Also if ranting and raving really changed minds, wouldn't we all be Trump supporters? That's his go to move, but I don't think anybody here finds it persuasive.

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