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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGOP Dinner Denial is a Warning
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2018/6/24/112248/490GOP Dinner Denial is a Warning
by BooMan
Sun Jun 24th, 2018 at 11:22:48 AM EST
If the people of the Washington DC metro area were to suddenly surround the White House and not let anyone in or out until Donald Trump agreed to resign, that would create a big crisis. The DC police, the Secret Service, the National Guard, and perhaps even the military would have to decide how far they were willing to go to preserve the constitutional order of the country. How much violence would they be prepared to use, and how time they would let elapse before they used it?
That's the kind of thing that might happen if Congress won't fulfill their role in the constitutional order and lets an outlaw administration stay in power after receiving a criminal referral from the Office of the Special Counsel recommending impeachment. But we're not at that kind of crisis point yet.
Nonetheless, a growing number of people feel that the Trump administration has crossed an invisible line, especially with their child separation policy at the border. They no longer see opposition as a political dispute. It has become a moral battle. And anyone who is still working to promulgate, rationalize, or promote Trump's policies has therefore been deemed outside of the traditional political realm.
This is what happens when our system of checks and balances breaks down. The less faith people have in the courts and in Congress to sustain bare minimum standards of human decency, the more they're willing to take matters into their own hands. Chasing administration officials and their close allies our of restaurants and movie theaters is still a fairly mild version of what may come. For now, a lot of hope and energy is still being placed in the political process, and much of the left is working to solve our problems in a traditional and constitutional way, by winning elections in November.
If those elections do not translate into actual political power for the left, and particularly if people feel that widespread shenanigans are to blame, that's when we should anticipate a breakdown in law and order. That's when you might see the White House surrounded.
I don't make these observations as some kind of threat. I'm simply issuing a warning based on observing human nature. If people believe they have a fair shot to throw an immoral government out of power by constitutional means, then they will pursue those means. If they are stymied in that effort, they will not simply give up. They will explore the avenues that are still left to them, and those will not be traditional political tactics. They will not all be legal tactics. The participants will not recognize the legitimacy of the arms of law enforcement responsible for suppressing their dissent.
People who are lamenting the breakdown in civility and the fact that Trump officials can't eat in peace should be mindful of how fragile our system becomes when it begins to transgress with impunity. Uneventful lunches and dinners are the least of what they stand to lose, and soon.
NEOBuckeye
(2,781 posts)Trump and his allies would do well to lean from history's examples. Hitler and Mussolini each believed himself to be unstoppable. God's gift to humanity. In the end, Hitler took his own life like the snake in the grass bitch-ass coward he always was. Mussolini was done in by his own people and hung his corpse upside down in disgrace. They each earned their own fates.
Hekate
(91,055 posts)sandensea
(21,734 posts)Cheeto and the GOPee want nothing less than Saddam Hussein-style sham elections from here on out.
thbobby
(1,474 posts)Frightening times we are living in, my friends. And probably about to get a lot worse. The manure is getting very close to the fan.
aeromanKC
(3,332 posts)I'd be fine with either.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)NEOBuckeye
(2,781 posts)bdtrppr6
(796 posts)I can feel it in my bones. Especially after a fucked around midterm election in November. It may not take that long. And not just the white house, any governmental building housing these "people" who are raiding our country and destroying what's left. Pruitt, Sessions, Miller, Zinke, Ryan, McConnell-the list is too long.
Ready for the Mussolini Finish to this nightmare.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Trump is already on record, saying that a free press is the enemy of the people (his people, maybe) and that Congress and the courts are impediments to his goals and should be done away with or ignored. This is unamerican, unconstitutional, dangerous prattle from a buffoon. His fanatical followers are no better, no smarter, and they have already shown that they'll use every means at their disposal - including violence - to further their hero's demented agenda.
BigmanPigman
(51,674 posts)Bill Maher told the audience about all the legal possibilities that the moron could do to stay in office and it will go past 2020. Mueller's conclusion can remain sealed, he won't be impeached by the Senate, he will fire and hire a zillion people to drag it out. The longer he stays in office the more irreparable harm will be done to the country at all levels. It is SCARY!
7962
(11,841 posts)and if he tried anything else, most republicans wouldn't stand for it. I've asked all the ones I know and very few would go along with an extreme move to keep a lost office
I heard the same thing when W was president; "he's gonna declare a national emergency!" among other ideas.
And I heard it from the people on the right when Obama was in office. Same shit.
Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)be allowed to quietly leave when this term us over. WHY should taxpayers have to pay him a stipend, provide Secret Service protections for him, plus other perks former presidents receive? He needs to be stripped of the office, imprisoned for treason and taken away in handcuffs. Handcuffs or a straight jacket, either one will be appropriate.
lapislzi
(5,762 posts)I have every expectation that his deranged "base," "his people" will award him a second term, with an assist from state-level GOP machines, Russia, assorted hackers, and other malcontents.
Everything is proceeding exactly according to the kleptocratic, oligarchic plan. You and I don't factor into it until and unless we decide to throw sand in the machinery. I'm ready to do that. By the time '20 comes around, I'll be old(er) and have little to lose.
This is not W. W was a dry run, if you will. And it ran like clockwork.
edited for misplaced emoji
7962
(11,841 posts)Run the right candidate and it will be a bigger defeat than Mondale.
Yes, all my opinion. But the people we all thought were "really" in charge of govt are not the people trump caters to. I think THEY would also want him out.
Unless there is an overwhelming and unambiguous thrashing of this Trump in 2020, he will scream it's a rigged election; he lost the popular vote by over 3 million and he's claiming confidently with absolutely no proof that they're all dead or illegal. And his followers parrot it over and over, just like he does.
Anyone here for one second believe this Trump is above calling for violence from his minions to retain the White House?
Is there ANYONE in our Party that can absolutely annihilate this guy? Haven't seen her/him yet...
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)That's the message I got out of reading this. If things don't go the way they should because of more Russian hacking, we will all meet to surround the WH.
BigmanPigman
(51,674 posts)If someone got me a ticket I could go and stay with a friend in Philly or my niece in DC. I am on an extremely fixed income due to not being able to work since I have a couple of illnesses and very high medical bills. Maybe that'll be my swan song.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)The article talks about surrounding the WH so that the military has a choice: remove the Rump, or shoot civilians. The checks and balances are so eroded that our faith in the system is gone. Plus, we know the Russians are up to no good again planning for the mid-terms. If it turns out in November that our elections have been hacked once again, the only solution is to surround the WH and demand his resignation.
I have to tell you, this article was about as depressing as they come!
BigmanPigman
(51,674 posts)hit with clubs, fire hoses, tear gas, etc before arresting everyone. That is what they always do. Civil disobedience will have to come from everyone, everywhere all the time, not just for special events. We need to hit companies with boycotts too.
Chickensoup
(650 posts)Because the threat of the current administration is existential. The price of the Opposition failure is catastrophic.
It reminds me of president Lincolns struggle with which road he should take to save the republic from disintegration.
Congress sent a delegation to the white house demanding he should negotiate with the secessionist. He refused to even meet with the delegation not because he wanted war, rather it was because he understood that in the history of every nation there comes a time for hard choices only real leaders can comprehend and stand firm to implement.
I hope I am wrong, but I feel our time to face destinies challenge is drawing near.
KPN
(15,680 posts)its time to make uncomfortable decisions to uphold moral values. Frankly, I know that some voters/non-voters have felt and been doing that for some time now. I fear we are now all near that brink when we are forced to make those uncomfortable personal decisions. This isnt business as usual for our country, for our party, or for ourselves.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)if the checks and balances system doesn't protect people, like it was intended to.
I hope the checks and balances system works, though. We're past a key point, but there's time to save the rest.
citizen blues
(570 posts)#1 - Trump declares some sort of martial law and suspends the midterm elections. While always a possibility, it seems far less likely than #2.
#2 - Trump declares any Democratic candidate taking a Republican seat as unlawful and only due to all the undocumented immigrants voting. He's been laying the groundwork and establishing the narrative on this for over a year and a half. He started with the claim that the only reason Clinton won the popular vote was due to 3 million "illegals" voting. Now, he's attacking Democrats by saying that they are just waiting at the border for an undocumented immigrant to step across, so they can register them to vote. As ridiculous as this sounds, Trumpsters are lacking in grey matter between the ears just like any cult followers are.
Then the silent gorilla in the corner - the military - will have to make a choice. Will they take their oath to defend the constitution seriously, or will they "just follow orders" and turn traitors like the entire GOP has?
Either way, things are going to get really ugly, really fast.
7962
(11,841 posts)Trump isnt going to stop people from being seated. He'll have no power to do so. He bitched to high heaven about Doug Jones and that was ALABAMA. Then blamed it on the people not backing HIS candidate. (which was actually true; Strange likely would've won that seat)
And I'd bet many of the new Dem seats will be large victories, which would be tough to sell as "stolen". Lot of GOP retirements out there.
But this nonsense talk of surrounding the WH and demanding trump be removed will NOT be tolerated by the military or a lot of civilians either. He will be removed by the vote or his own feet; like Nixon. And if Mueller has real solid evidence of Russian collusion I believe enough republicans would turn on him. But if its more like shady business dealings thats not gonna be enough
lambchopp59
(2,809 posts)Forever record the names Stephen Killer, Jeff No-regard Sessions, Sarah Phuckabee Sanders, Sean Hannitary Napkin, Captain blowhard Limbaugh, the Fox and Fiends crew and many others will have their names forever engraved in the most backward, disastrous bullshit steeped crusade ever created since the actual Nazi's.
That is if humans survive the coming climate change apocalypse.
KPN
(15,680 posts)take a break from all this mostly because I agree with you ... and its not pleasant.
byronius
(7,413 posts)Barbara Tuchman's Distant Mirror, for instance, and her story of the peasants slowly roasting their former masters on spits.
This isn't Germany of the thirties, or Russia, or Iraq. Most of us aren't herdable. We haven't gone through anything like this, but most of us have been raised on a steady diet of individual freedoms and recognition of responsibility that will transform us under stress into soldiers.
I know the feelings I have are being felt by millions of others just like me. I'm waiting for the legal mill to grind this traitor exceedingly fine. If someone stops or deflects the process and expects to be able to rule over us using fear, a timer will start ticking.
Already they've stepped so far over the line that the lashback should be, must be merciless. Are we all aware of the danger we face? Yes, I believe we are. Are we able to repair and reboot this magnificent Agreement? Yes we can.
They will not win. They would have to kill us all.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,527 posts)thucythucy
(8,139 posts)make violent revolution inevitable" or words along that line?
That said, I don't think surrounding the White House would do much. They'll just use helicopters, is all.
Wednesdays
(17,498 posts)until they're suddenly faced with tanks and strike fighter jets.
DinahMoeHum
(21,842 posts). . .and helicopters and jets will refuse their orders and just stand down.
It's becoming more and more obvious that Trump really doesn't give a shit about them, either.
There's also that little issue called "Posse Comitatus" to consider.
northremembers
(63 posts)I think Melania's jacket stunt is symbolic of what is to come. None of them care and there is a lot of frustration. It isn't simply the detention camps. It's Chinese and Russian investors buying our real estate and driving up housing costs. It's eliminating regulations that protect the work force and ensure economic stability. It's the attacks of social security and medicare. All of our lives are experiencing dramatic pressure because of these policies.
When Obama was president right wing pundits actively advocated for "Second amendment solutions" and white Christian males acted and continue to act on that advocacy in mass shootings. None of us want that, but there is a difference between a lone gunman firing on unsuspecting innocents and an angry mob spontaneously acting against public officials.
In a situation like ours it only takes a spark to set off a mass reaction. We forget how the ruling in the Rodney King beatings turned into riots that spread from LA to major cities across the country. The 1917 Revolution happened because people protested and the soldiers were sent out to shoot, but refused to do it. Suddenly it was over for the Czar. The past week we have seen harbingers of mass frustration. We don't know whether the next spark will come from another black teen getting shot by law enforcement, or another school shooting, or an eviction by a Russian landlord, or a rock gets thrown by someone who's had enough. It probably won't be something related to indictments, but rather something thoughtless done by someone emboldened by Trumps rhetoric or policies. It will happen to someone or some group of average people. When it happens Trump and the Republican leadership won't care until it's too late.
LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,604 posts)He'd go to Mar-A-Lago and play golf while the police and military cleaned up the protests, which I can guarantee would get messy. The anger energy of any effort to physically take back our government ensures conflicts will occur. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen -- it might be the only avenue left -- just that there are always consequences of actions that defy the powers that be. Ask the civil rights movement...
In the end, however, it would be worth it, and I'd drive across the country to take part.
bluestarone
(17,143 posts)I feel most members here DO NOT trust the voting machines (myself included). The republiCONS are acting as if they have the votes in NOV. If they do pull off some heavy shit, we need to be ready to do more than ANY TIME BEFORE!!! This great country is worth fighting for! Please let's not let russia take it away from us!!!
Mosby
(16,422 posts)Trump doesn't give a shit, and his supporters would love seeing some heads bashed in.
KPN
(15,680 posts)We are approaching a threshold. As individuals, we would do well to take our own measure and be prepared cognitively.
zentrum
(9,866 posts)bucolic_frolic
(43,548 posts)the democracy, even the Republic, was built on plurality, compromise, dispersed power, consensus.
Trump and the GOP are not governing by those methods. They rule by absolutism and believe they have Divine Right of Kings. They won't last, any more than any others throughout history who have ruled by such methods. One might say the British Monarchy could stake such a claim, but it's their political system since Magna Carta that has evolved and endured. The ruling houses have been overthrown several times.
IronLionZion
(45,673 posts)or any number of places. They'll still shoot the protesters of course, to teach us a lesson.
rickyhall
(4,889 posts)world wide wally
(21,762 posts)Congress REFUSES to do their job because of pure, unadulterated greed and prejudice, but there will be a steep price to pay for this once great country.
spanone
(135,951 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)the same lines concerning my personal observations of the current state of affairs between American citizens of conscience and decency against ameriKKKan leaders who rob, cheat, steal, con and promote, encourage and enable racial hate, division, sexism, fascism, homophobia. These people NOW in charge of the NPA aka GOP NEVER want to see a minority person or woman in the top leadership role of this country ever again. And they now are going about the process of making sure only racist, KKKristian white males are installed as potus.
7962
(11,841 posts)They are tiny in number. they will retreat behind their moats and bitch and whine just like they did in '08 & '12.
usaf-vet
(6,246 posts)we no longer have a SCOTUS that is balanced. The right wingers have fixed the court for decades to come.
BREAKING: SCOTUS Sends Back North Carolina Partisan Gerrymandering Case Rather Than Setting.........
BREAKING: Supreme Court Decides Texas Redistricting Case on 5-4 Vote, Along Ideological Lines........
BREAKING: Supreme Court turns away 'Making a Murderer' case appeal.........
BREAKING: Supreme Court rules for American Express in credit card case.......
BREAKING: Supreme Court throws out case against florist who refused to do arrangement for gay wedding......
Last week SCOTUS sent Wisconsin's and Maryland's gerrymandering case back to the states.
Likely putting off any changes before the 2020 Presidential election.
Democracy is been nice knowing you!