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RandySF

(59,813 posts)
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 10:24 AM Jun 2018

Supreme Court throws out case against florist who refused to do arrangement for gay wedding

The Supreme Court on Monday threw out a lower court ruling which found a Washington florist had intentionally discriminated against a same-sex couple for refusing to make flower arrangements for their wedding.

The justices vacated the ruling and sent the case back down to the lower court in light of their decision earlier this month in favor of a Colorado baker's refusal to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage.

This florist's case, known as Arlene's Flowers Inc. v. Washington, mirrors that Colorado case in which the baker argued his cakes are an artistic expression of speech and religion that are protected by the First Amendment.

The court sided with the baker on narrow grounds, ruling that he had been treated unfairly by the Colorado Civil Rights Commission when it first heard the case.



https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/393922-supreme-court-throws-out-case-against-florist-who-refused-to-do%3famp

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Supreme Court throws out case against florist who refused to do arrangement for gay wedding (Original Post) RandySF Jun 2018 OP
One thing seems fairly consistent with this court. yallerdawg Jun 2018 #1
He and few others I won't name. RandySF Jun 2018 #6
Grassley SharonClark Jun 2018 #9
Yep! nt R B Garr Jun 2018 #14
2nd your Yep! Cha Jun 2018 #30
We know who you mean. Cha Jun 2018 #29
I think the headline is misleading. spooky3 Jun 2018 #2
That is the way I understood it. DFW Jun 2018 #8
No, not so be it. former9thward Jun 2018 #12
I think that's right. Kennedy's opinion anticipates that this is not settled... Princess Turandot Jun 2018 #20
Putin's court fucking us over for repug partisan gain, yet again. lark Jun 2018 #3
Marching forward with the first dictator of the US. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2018 #5
Not just Putin and the Republicans RandySF Jun 2018 #10
So, this means flowers are an artistic expression of speech and religion that are protected by RKP5637 Jun 2018 #4
Just ones that aren't part of a federally protected class jmowreader Jun 2018 #17
K&R!!! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2018 #19
Gender identity was recently granted full suspect in the WA circuit trans armed forces ban Crash2Parties Jun 2018 #28
So, given this, it appears I can discriminate against anyone I want for services, all I need to do is RKP5637 Jun 2018 #7
I guess then Rethugs choie Jun 2018 #11
There is no legal issue with the Red Hen at that location. former9thward Jun 2018 #13
You are mistaken onenote Jun 2018 #15
Totally disagree with you on that. former9thward Jun 2018 #16
While a restaurant might choose to avoid the fight onenote Jun 2018 #18
Could they also argue that they object to SHS's pattern spooky3 Jun 2018 #21
Do you have ANY idea how much a court case like that would cost? former9thward Jun 2018 #23
Onenote also provided you with the correct response to that spooky3 Jun 2018 #24
No he/she didn't. former9thward Jun 2018 #25
Bye. spooky3 Jun 2018 #26
How about just saying she breaks one of the ten commandments numerous times daily. boston bean Jun 2018 #31
:-) spooky3 Jun 2018 #33
This is a slippery moral slope of capriciousness bucolic_frolic Jun 2018 #22
If we can discriminate on moral grounds, Trumphumpers are in big trouble as they are amoral. Vinca Jun 2018 #27
And it all comes back to seinfeld. Soup nazi, no soup for you!! boston bean Jun 2018 #32

spooky3

(34,531 posts)
2. I think the headline is misleading.
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 10:27 AM
Jun 2018

So were headlines elsewhere. The case has been returned to the lower court for reconsideration. If that court finds there was no clear anti-religious bias in process, for example, then wouldn’t the ruling outcome stand?

DFW

(54,515 posts)
8. That is the way I understood it.
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 10:34 AM
Jun 2018

SCOTUS didn't want to be seen repealing their recent decision about the Colorado bakery, so they just said that the Seattle case should be re-considered, and if the ruling is the same as before, then so be it.

former9thward

(32,165 posts)
12. No, not so be it.
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 11:12 AM
Jun 2018

If the ruling was the same it would be appealed back to the SC. When the SC sends a case back to a lower court for reconsideration they generally don't expect the same ruling.

Princess Turandot

(4,791 posts)
20. I think that's right. Kennedy's opinion anticipates that this is not settled...
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 12:26 PM
Jun 2018

The last two paragraphs:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-111diff_868c.pdf p18

In this case the adjudication concerned a context that may well be different going forward in the respects noted above. However later cases raising these or similar concerns are resolved in the future, for these reasons the rulings of the Commission and of the state court that enforced the Commission’s order must be invalidated.

The outcome of cases like this in other circumstances must await further elaboration in the courts, all in the context of recognizing that these disputes must be resolved with tolerance, without undue disrespect to sincere religious beliefs, and without subjecting gay persons to indignities when they seek goods and services in an open market.


From SCOTUSblog today:
Court sends battle over services for same-sex couples back to state court (by Amy Howe):

...The justices put Stutzman’s (the florist) appeal on hold until they ruled on the Masterpiece decision, and today they sent her case back to the lower courts so that (as in Masterpiece) they can consider Stutzman’s assertion that she too was the victim of religious hostility. The order means that Stutzman will have another chance to fight the lower court’s ruling, which levied fees and penalties on Stutzman and ordered her to provide the same services to same-sex couples that she provides to opposite-sex couples. The justices will almost certainly have to tackle the question presented by Stutzman’s case soon, but they apparently do not intend to do it next fall.

lark

(23,199 posts)
3. Putin's court fucking us over for repug partisan gain, yet again.
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 10:27 AM
Jun 2018

Putin & drumpf are so happy today, their ringer gorsuch came through for them again.

RandySF

(59,813 posts)
10. Not just Putin and the Republicans
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 10:37 AM
Jun 2018

But certain “progressives” who decided there was no difference between Trump and Hillary.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
4. So, this means flowers are an artistic expression of speech and religion that are protected by
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 10:28 AM
Jun 2018

the First Amendment? I guess. Is a precedent now being set for discrimination. Can all minorities now be discriminated against?


jmowreader

(50,601 posts)
17. Just ones that aren't part of a federally protected class
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 11:49 AM
Jun 2018

Elect me president and give me enough Democrats to do anything, and sexual orientation will become a federally protected class. If the GOP complains, Christianity will be removed from the list of federally protected classes on grounds they’re old enough to be able to take care of themselves.

Crash2Parties

(6,017 posts)
28. Gender identity was recently granted full suspect in the WA circuit trans armed forces ban
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 09:00 PM
Jun 2018

The two tend to leapfrog each other in court as both suffer the same discrimination for not conforming to Good Christian gender binary norms.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
7. So, given this, it appears I can discriminate against anyone I want for services, all I need to do is
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 10:33 AM
Jun 2018

wrap it in religion and artistic expression.

choie

(4,112 posts)
11. I guess then Rethugs
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 10:55 AM
Jun 2018

Shouldn't have any problem with the Red Hen refusing to serve Hucksterbee Sanders.

former9thward

(32,165 posts)
13. There is no legal issue with the Red Hen at that location.
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 11:15 AM
Jun 2018

If the restaurant was in D.C. it would be a different matter because D.C. has a law not allowing discrimination for political reasons.

onenote

(42,854 posts)
15. You are mistaken
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 11:22 AM
Jun 2018

DC Human Rights Law bars discrimination based on "political affiliation", not political positions. If the restaurant could show, as I'm certain that it could, that it regularly and routinely serves individuals who are members of, or endorse, the Republican Party, the restaurant would have a pretty solid defense against any claim that the reason they denied service to Sanders was merely because she is a Republican.

former9thward

(32,165 posts)
16. Totally disagree with you on that.
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 11:27 AM
Jun 2018

Given the facts the restaurant would have to do back flips in court to avoid conviction. No restaurant manager in their right mind would go through that.

onenote

(42,854 posts)
18. While a restaurant might choose to avoid the fight
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 12:09 PM
Jun 2018

It wouldn't be that hard a fight to win. The definition of 'political affiliation' in the law is clear: "the state of belonging to or endorsing any political party." Given that numerous Republicans had spoken out against the Trump immigration policy, it is clear that the issue was one of policy, not affiliation.

spooky3

(34,531 posts)
21. Could they also argue that they object to SHS's pattern
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 01:00 PM
Jun 2018

Of behavior, eg, consistently lying to the public? Or that her presence upsets the employees or other customers?

It seems to me (a layperson not familiar with the cases etc) that, given that restaurateurs can deny me service on bases like “no shoes, no shirt—no service”, or even that I wasn’t conforming to their “jackets required” dress code, they have a lot of freedom to exclude customers on other grounds—as long as they are not discriminating on the bases of grounds spelled out specifically in statutes, such as race?

former9thward

(32,165 posts)
23. Do you have ANY idea how much a court case like that would cost?
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 01:36 PM
Jun 2018

Witnesses and evidence are not free. It would cost them 2 or 3 years of profits to present a case like that. Real life court are not the internet discussion boards.

boston bean

(36,225 posts)
31. How about just saying she breaks one of the ten commandments numerous times daily.
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 09:07 PM
Jun 2018

You religious beliefs prevent you from serving her your artistic cheese spreads.

bucolic_frolic

(43,511 posts)
22. This is a slippery moral slope of capriciousness
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 01:29 PM
Jun 2018

I have moral objections to

everything Republican
unmufflered throaty engines
local taxes
income taxes
doctor's bills
wine without flavor
etc
etc
etc

If everyone starts objecting at everything on religious grounds, the world will come to a stop

This is the logical playout of the Hyde amendment. "I object, therefore you cannot use my tax dollars for ...."

Vinca

(50,334 posts)
27. If we can discriminate on moral grounds, Trumphumpers are in big trouble as they are amoral.
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 02:07 PM
Jun 2018

No cheeseburger for you.

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