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babylonsister

(171,111 posts)
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 12:37 PM Jun 2018

How Civil Should We Be In The Face of Institutionalized Hatred?

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/06/24/how-civil-should-we-be-in-the-face-of-institutionalized-hatred/

How Civil Should We Be In The Face of Institutionalized Hatred?
by David Atkins
June 24, 2018


The civility police have been hyperactive this weekend, monitoring and tut-tutting the response to Trump’s deplorable policy of family separation and other outrages. We are told that comparing actual fascist politics to Nazis is bad form (even though Mike Godwin of “Godwin’s Law” approves). Both David Axelrod and the Washington Post are clutching their pearls over Sarah Sanders’ being asked to leave a restaurant.

It’s very important to certain parts of the liberal intelligentsia that we treat Trumpists and their fellow travelers with kid gloves out of respect for “the norms,” or some other such Tip’n’Ronnie Sorkinist nostalgic daydreams.

Meanwhile, here’s what Trump actually did today:

President Trump asserted on Sunday that immigrants who crossed into the United States illegally should be sent back immediately without due process or an appearance before a judge, an escalation of his attacks on the judicial system.

“We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country,” Mr. Trump tweeted while on the way to his golf course in Virginia. “When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came.”

It was another twist in an already head-spinning series of developments on immigration after the president reversed a policy last week that had resulted in the separation of more than 2,300 children from their families.


The President of the United States, upset that his policy of ripping babies out of the arms of mothers seeking asylum was rejected, argued for extrajudicial deportations today. This is the same administration that has been dehumanizing immigrants, comparing children to gang members and insisting they will become future criminals, and seeking to denaturalize citizens by finding fault with their paperwork.

To paraphrase the old Holocaust era chestnut, first they came for the Muslim immigrants. Then they came for the Hispanic immigrants. Then they came for the children of the immigrants. Then they came for the naturalized citizens. Now the President wants to cleanse the country of non-white immigrants using extrajudicial means.

Just how far will this go until well-heeled tone police start to realize that resistance means, well, actually resisting rather that sighing loudly over brunch, typing a few words of disappointment onto social media, and then lecturing the young that they should vote in greater numbers?

Passion begets passion, enthusiasm begets enthusiasm, and the future belongs to those who do more than just talking about putting up a fight against authoritarian fascism. It belongs to those who actually do something about it.
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How Civil Should We Be In The Face of Institutionalized Hatred? (Original Post) babylonsister Jun 2018 OP
If the good German people had done something in 1929...well, history beachbum bob Jun 2018 #1
This is the Claus von Stauffenberg principle... GetRidOfThem Jun 2018 #18
Not civil at all. The Washington Post and David Axelrod should shut up Glorfindel Jun 2018 #2
The people complaining the loudest, NY_20th Jun 2018 #3
Worse. The complainers are the ones who normalized the GOP sharedvalues Jun 2018 #15
I absolutely agree. NY_20th Jun 2018 #21
+1 sharedvalues Jun 2018 #22
Theres a lot of tsk, tsking going on over . . . peggysue2 Jun 2018 #4
Right on! Find the children! BarbD Jun 2018 #11
After eight years of the opprobrium they threw at the Obamas... greatauntoftriplets Jun 2018 #5
I'm very good at being civil and biting and usually funny at the same time. Then I can also be Trek4Truth Jun 2018 #6
Not at all. Iggo Jun 2018 #7
When am radio and fox noise stop spewing vile lies YessirAtsaFact Jun 2018 #8
Don't you know only right wingers can be rude and uncivil ? kimbutgar Jun 2018 #9
This quote has stuck with me since I read it in 2016. It's even more appropriate now. catbyte Jun 2018 #10
+1 leftstreet Jun 2018 #16
I saved that one the last time I saw you post it. A gem. nt Lucky Luciano Jun 2018 #20
Let's not be civil at all. NoMoreRepugs Jun 2018 #12
The more people get angry the more they will resist and in vocal, BigmanPigman Jun 2018 #13
Chick-fil-a will gladly serve them lunatica Jun 2018 #14
they are fascist, racist cowards heaven05 Jun 2018 #17
A good time to revisit this passage from "They Thought They Were Free" by Milton Mayer. dgauss Jun 2018 #19

GetRidOfThem

(869 posts)
18. This is the Claus von Stauffenberg principle...
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 03:38 PM
Jun 2018

He was grappling with the ethics of "doing something" about Hitler. He came down to the conclusion that an assassination is necessitated. As we all know, also from the movie, it did not go over well, and the coup failed.

But the ethical question was raised by him and his co-conspirators: At what point does taking a life save lives?

This is similar go the civility question: At what point to we pass the threshold where we can no longer respond with civility?

Does shaming minions of the current administration serve a real purpose, or does it just provide emotional satisfaction to the shamer?

I think the answer is: Do the right thing, which is what is most effective in bringing change? Shaming might or might not do it. If it alienates further and brings no change, it is not the ethical path. If it produces a change in behavior, it is the ethical route.

My speculation is that some of the minions feel the pain of being shamed, and it could cause people to peel away (I am speculating here: Hope Hicks?). I do not think shaming Agent Orange will ever work, since he knows no shame.

 

NY_20th

(1,028 posts)
3. The people complaining the loudest,
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 12:50 PM
Jun 2018

are the same people who have been excusing Trump's behavior for the past three years.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
15. Worse. The complainers are the ones who normalized the GOP
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 03:26 PM
Jun 2018

Trump and the Republicans got here because of bothsidesim in the centrist media - places like WaPo and NYT with many smart liberal journalists but with fear of offending the right. Paul Krugman has been writing about media bothsidesism since 1999.

So the people complaining the loudest HAVE been excusing Trump for three years. But they have also been excusing GWB, Rove, torturers, govt destruction by billionaires, Paul Ryan, Gorsuch, Judicial Watch, and Mitch McConnell for two decades.

They created Trump.

(Jay Rosen, George Lakoff, and Paul Krugman have written the best explanations of these journalists.)

peggysue2

(10,853 posts)
4. Theres a lot of tsk, tsking going on over . . .
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 12:54 PM
Jun 2018

the Sarah Huckabee shunning at the Red Hen. This came, of course, on he heels of Neilson and Miller being shamed over their Mexican dinners.

My reply?

Where are the Babies? Where are the Girls?

If Sanders and her cohorts are going to lie, obfuscate and excuse the Trumpster's repugnant and illegal proclamations--throw 'em out, forget due process--then they should start eating at home, preferably with the blinds drawn.

You sit with evil, defend it, give it comfort and quarter, then you deserve to be shunned in the public square. Shaming over disgusting behavior and repellent public policy is a viable form of protest.

The Washington Post claims these people should be allowed to eat in peace.

My reply?

Where are the Babies? Where are the Girls?

 

Trek4Truth

(515 posts)
6. I'm very good at being civil and biting and usually funny at the same time. Then I can also be
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 12:57 PM
Jun 2018

deplorable if need be. But there is one thing for certain. I am not keeping my mouth shut.

YessirAtsaFact

(2,064 posts)
8. When am radio and fox noise stop spewing vile lies
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 01:13 PM
Jun 2018

Insane conspiracy theories and baseless personal attacks, we can think about it.

The right started this and is responsible for 90% of the lowering of public discourse.

Decades of nonstop hate on am radio, the never ending demonization of Democrats and Faux Noise hate-blabbing are why Americans could vote for a lowlife like The OrangeTurd.

If the RWNJ were capable of feeling shame, they would be too ashamed to complain.

But hate filled media bring out the worst in people.

kimbutgar

(21,285 posts)
9. Don't you know only right wingers can be rude and uncivil ?
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 02:55 PM
Jun 2018

Not those weak lefties!

Who are those Twitler supporters going to bully if we hit back?

catbyte

(34,546 posts)
10. This quote has stuck with me since I read it in 2016. It's even more appropriate now.
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 03:01 PM
Jun 2018

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

NoMoreRepugs

(9,522 posts)
12. Let's not be civil at all.
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 03:12 PM
Jun 2018

Let's use the preemptive doctrine of neutralizing potential threats or enemies that may intend to harm the country. It must be the right thing to do....after all, conservatives created it didn't they???

BigmanPigman

(51,674 posts)
13. The more people get angry the more they will resist and in vocal,
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 03:15 PM
Jun 2018

public ways. Optics is important but so is getting everyone to do it with consistency and across the country. We need to resist with civil disobedience and boycott GOP companies too.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
14. Chick-fil-a will gladly serve them
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 03:16 PM
Jun 2018

They might even not charge them in gratitude for bringing business their way.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
17. they are fascist, racist cowards
Mon Jun 25, 2018, 03:32 PM
Jun 2018

why be nice to those that prefer children be caged and calling white supremacists "nice people". Why be nice to the propaganda mouthpiece that lies, lies, lies just like her boss.
They are Nazis, with the refinements to fit our era and technology

https://www.brainz.org/10-most-evil-propaganda-techniques-used-nazis/

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