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captain queeg

(10,320 posts)
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 06:14 PM Jun 2018

Seriously are we witnessing the end of the great American expirement?

The US was founded on the destruction of the indigenous populations that were already here. Plenty of back ground on that , and abusing other non white races. Non the less we built something good for lots of people, outside historical experience. But it’s an expirement. It’s gone one well over 200 years but that’s just a drop in the bucket. Prior to the US major powers used some version of royalty and everyone else was a peone. I see that ugly future lying ahead of us if the worlds population allows it. My hope is that is not what allows to happen but am less and less convinced lately. Are we doomed to fall back in time one or fwo thousand years? It’s starting to feel like it. The money and power is becoming more and more concentrated as times on. Where will it end?

The really scary part is the US holds the majority of nuclear weapons which has everyone else in the work scared shitless. People with limited knowledge of history tend to shoot holes in any idea like this I might bring up, but really a few hundred years vs several thousand years of the known history of human civilization really ought to not ignore that people really haven’t changed all that much.

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Seriously are we witnessing the end of the great American expirement? (Original Post) captain queeg Jun 2018 OP
depends entirely on 2018 election results AlexSFCA Jun 2018 #1
no, there's been worse but not without congerss as a check uponit7771 Jun 2018 #2
part of the "experiment" is to make corrections and keep it going nt msongs Jun 2018 #3
there ya go Afromania Jun 2018 #5
I can't believe I'm online checking out how to immigrate to Canada mainer Jun 2018 #4
I just looked into being sponsored to come to Canada. mnhtnbb Jun 2018 #6
Dust off that family tree Jake Stern Jun 2018 #13
If you do not speak French or think you can quickly learn look elsewhere GulfCoast66 Jun 2018 #21
On the historical scale, republics are few and tyrannies are many marylandblue Jun 2018 #7
The UK, Belgium, Spain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and Japan are all monarchies Spider Jerusalem Jun 2018 #12
I am not talking about constitutional monarchies marylandblue Jun 2018 #14
Britain was a constitutional monarchy, 200+ years ago. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2018 #15
And what was it for 1000 years before that? marylandblue Jun 2018 #16
Not really relevant Spider Jerusalem Jun 2018 #17
It's relevant to the OP's point marylandblue Jun 2018 #18
What we've learned from the past few hundred years: Spider Jerusalem Jun 2018 #19
I agree that parliamentary systems have advantages over Presidential systems marylandblue Jun 2018 #20
Gloom, despair, and agony on me struggle4progress Jun 2018 #8
If all 3 branches, plus numerous legislatures and governorships remain in Republican hands mn9driver Jun 2018 #9
He now has the courts lame54 Jun 2018 #10
certainly appears that way, doesn't it? 0rganism Jun 2018 #11

AlexSFCA

(6,139 posts)
1. depends entirely on 2018 election results
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 06:16 PM
Jun 2018

if we don’t prevail, I highly doubt there will be a real 2020 election.

Afromania

(2,771 posts)
5. there ya go
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 06:21 PM
Jun 2018

This is the biggest debugging Democracy has ever been given. We are going to come out the other side of this and know exactly what needs fixing.

mainer

(12,038 posts)
4. I can't believe I'm online checking out how to immigrate to Canada
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 06:19 PM
Jun 2018

It turns out I would qualify.

I have never felt so despairing of the US's future. Or the rest of the world, for that matter. With climate change, Brexit, and the refugee crises around the world, it feels as if history is about to take an abrupt, catastrophic turn.

mnhtnbb

(31,428 posts)
6. I just looked into being sponsored to come to Canada.
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 06:22 PM
Jun 2018

I am pretty sure my oldest son and his partner would qualify to immigrate to Canada. Then they could apply to sponsor me--as a parent--to come. I can't get there on my own as a retiree. BUT, here's the interesting thing. Canada CLOSED family sponsorships in February of this year because they'd already had their quota of 10,000. applications!

I am taking a serious look at France as an alternative. I'm also thinking of just getting as far away as possible--Hawaii--without leaving the US.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
13. Dust off that family tree
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 07:37 PM
Jun 2018

Several countries have ancestry immigration/citizenship programs. Among them are Ireland, Hungary, Italy and Germany. See if you qualify.

Some like Italy allow you to claim citizenship without having to set foot in the country.

Hungary is run but a Trumpian madman but that citizenship opens up the doors to the rest of the EU, including France.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
21. If you do not speak French or think you can quickly learn look elsewhere
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 08:24 PM
Jun 2018

They are very serious about all French speaking French and do absolutely nothing to help those who do not.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
7. On the historical scale, republics are few and tyrannies are many
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 06:24 PM
Jun 2018

The last 200 years of rising republics taking over monarchies could be an anomaly that is about to revert to the historic norm.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
12. The UK, Belgium, Spain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and Japan are all monarchies
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 07:33 PM
Jun 2018

it's perfectly possible for a country to have a democratic government without being a republic. (And if the colonists hadn't engaged in that revolt over paying taxes, independence would've come anyway, slavery would've ended sooner, and the early 19th century ethnic cleansing of eastern Native American tribes might not've happened; so in hindsight the American Revolution was probably a bad thing.)

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
14. I am not talking about constitutional monarchies
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 07:41 PM
Jun 2018

which are really republics with a figurehead. I am talking about absolute monarchies. Up until a few hundred years ago, a heriditary king with absolute or near absolute power was assumed to be the natural form of government with few exceptions.

So who is crazy? The people who lived with the standard form of government for 5,000 years, or we with our messy votes and sharing of power that is barely 200 years old and can be subverted as soon as soon as people vote themselves a tyrant.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
15. Britain was a constitutional monarchy, 200+ years ago.
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 07:44 PM
Jun 2018

Has been since the Glorious Revolution of 1688. So if you're talking about 18th century Britain, then you are in fact talking about a constitutional monarchy.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
17. Not really relevant
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 07:54 PM
Jun 2018

it was a constitutonal monarchy throughout the 18th century. The American Revolution didn't take place in the 1500's. (Although it was a limited monarchy constrained by Parliament for some time before that, and at least back to Magna Carta.)

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
18. It's relevant to the OP's point
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 07:55 PM
Jun 2018

Which is about the grand sweep of history, not just the past few hundred years.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
19. What we've learned from the past few hundred years:
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 08:11 PM
Jun 2018

Presidential systems (like the US's) are inherently unstable and usually fail. The US is the oldest country with its particular form of government; it's been tried elsewhere, and usually failed much more quickly. See here: https://scholar.harvard.edu/levitsky/files/1.1linz.pdf

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
20. I agree that parliamentary systems have advantages over Presidential systems
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 08:20 PM
Jun 2018

But there is a wave of authoritarian populism sweeping the world. It could sweep them away too. We don't know the answer yet.

mn9driver

(4,431 posts)
9. If all 3 branches, plus numerous legislatures and governorships remain in Republican hands
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 07:25 PM
Jun 2018

after November, then it is a real possibility.

0rganism

(23,996 posts)
11. certainly appears that way, doesn't it?
Tue Jun 26, 2018, 07:32 PM
Jun 2018

i'm cautiously optimistic that enough people will get their shit together and vote this November to stem the tide of fascism by returning the House and/or Senate to Democrats. otherwise, well, let's not do "otherwise" quite yet.

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