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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums30 Ways White People Say 'Black People' Without Actually Saying 'Black People'
(A rejoinder to SheShe's '40 Ways White People Say 'White People' Without Actually Saying 'White People' Post)
Damon Young
1. Urban
2. Inner city
3. At risk
4. Low income
5. Thug
6. Welfare recipient/dependent
7. Any out of context reference to Chicago (This, btw, also works for Detroit.)
8. Drug dealer (Interestingly enough, not drug addict. Perhaps because drug addict implies a passivity and victimhood that drug dealer does not.)
9. Single parent(s)
10. Renter(s)
11. Transient population
12. Section 8
13. Underprivileged
14. Low socioeconomic status
15. Underserved
16. Affirmative action
17. Marginalized
18. Disinfranchised
19. Vulnearble
20. Minority/minorities
21. Hip-hop
22. Ghetto
23. Diverse people/population
24. Depressed neighborhood/school/people/population
25. High-crime neighborhood/school
26. Gang-related
27. Sketchy block/neighborhood
28. They
29. Those people
30. Them
https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/30-ways-white-people-say-black-people-without-actually-1827146564?utm_source=theroot_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
wryter2000
(46,145 posts)Both you and Sheshe
sheshe2
(84,102 posts)Sweet!
progree
(10,958 posts)As in "this bar is starting to get a wee bit 'multi-cultural' "
Sgent
(5,857 posts)some of them are obvious dog whistles, but a lot of those examples are meh at best. When I think thugs, what immediately comes to mind are bikers / white supremacists, although black and latino gangs also come to mind. Mily Cyrus was accused of multiple black writers / critics of mis-appropriating hip-hop (meaning black) culture, so I'm not sure what to make of that.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Sgent
(5,857 posts)showed me 1 picture of Indian thugs (where the word originated), 1 of Hispanic gangster types, 1 of Black gangster types, and 9 pictures of bands / albums / etc. who have Thug in their name, and all of whose members are black.
So outside of the self-labeled musical context, we get 1/3 Indian, 1/3 Hispanic, and 1/3 Black. If I did search for N**** I'm guessing it would be 100% black.
Not to say that the word isn't used in a derogatory fashion -- obviously it is, but I don't think its synonymous with black.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)OnDoutside
(19,988 posts)Thug suggests to me a shaven headed white guy, named Knuckles. Must be my bias then.
WhiteTara
(29,739 posts)Their privilege bias is so apparent that they think they are the norm and all others are aberrations.
OnDoutside
(19,988 posts)WhiteTara
(29,739 posts)Google is your friend.
OnDoutside
(19,988 posts)BumRushDaShow
(130,146 posts)By Olivia B. Waxman August 8, 2017
The latest step in the ongoing conversation about the gender gap in tech came on Tuesday when Google announced that it had fired engineer James Damore for perpetuating gender stereotypes in an internal memo about the companys corporate culture. In discussing the lack of gender diversity in tech, Damore had written about supposed biological differences between men and women, and how those differences may explain why we dont see equal representation of women in tech and leadership.
<...>
http://time.com/4892094/google-diversity-history-memo/
By Kiet Do
August 9, 2017 at 6:23 pm
<...>
Back in April, the Office of Federal Contractor Compliance Programs (OFCCP), a division of the Department of Labor, testified in federal court about an ongoing investigation into Googles pay practices. In a report by The Guardian, the OFCCP said, The department has received compelling evidence of very significant discrimination against women in the most common positions at Google headquarters discrimination against women in google is quite extreme
Finberg said, They complained to human resources and nothing was done about it. Finberg, based in San Francisco, is now preparing to file a class-action lawsuit, after interviewing dozens of current and former google employees. He says the women complained they were getting paid a quarter to a third less than men doing the same work.
Finberg said, The culture at Google is hostile to women. Women tend to be channeled into what are perceived to be softer positions. User interface positions, design positions. Men get the code positions. Code positions are more highly paid and more highly valued at Google.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/08/09/google-accused-of-gender-discrimination/
WhiteTara
(29,739 posts)first click second click.
Feel better now that I've done your work for you? Just shows that the articles all state is true; women are better and highly undervalued in a white male dominated world.
https://www.quora.com/Are-there-a-lot-of-female-coders-in-the-US
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/12/women-considered-better-coders-hide-gender-github
OnDoutside
(19,988 posts)Here is your post, that I responded to
I'm sure it's part of the algorithm. Most coders are white men.
Their privilege bias is so apparent that they think they are the norm and all others are aberrations.
Whereas you are now saying
Feel better now that I've done your work for you? Just shows that the articles all state is true; women are better and highly undervalued in a white male dominated world.
1. I'm sure it's part of the algorithm. That's just your opinion, with no evidence to back it up. That's fine, it's an opinion.
2. Most coders are white men. Where does it state that in your links ? It's ironic that your link does show that Asian Americans are significantly higher paid than European Americans.
3. Their privilege bias is so apparent that they think they are the norm and all others are aberrations. Again, that is only a subjective opinion on your part, which is also fair enough, but you are stating it as fact.
I work in the IT industry too, and yes, absolutely, there are more men than women (which I have seen change over my 30 years working in IT), which I suspect has been down largely, to education policies not encouraging women in maths and science. This is changing, and all for the better. However, I grate at sweeping statements of bias like that.
WhiteTara
(29,739 posts)why was it that you sent me on a chase? That speaks of white male privilege right there.
OnDoutside
(19,988 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)by the goofy dudes who created it in their image. Ugh.
OnDoutside
(19,988 posts)A request actual facts is trolling when it interferes with your narrative Righty-o.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)In the media so extensively either you know that- or are so out of the loop you need to read up on your own.
You can easily find your own links, FFS. Get over yourself, this is not a game that compels people to do resarch for you.
OnDoutside
(19,988 posts)Where did I say I knew the Silicon valley demographics ? My request was that the poster back up their sweeping statement. You just can't expect to get away with generalizations like that.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Im sorry I dont believe in doing homework for ignorant people who try to dominate discussions on topics they know nothing about. Nobody has to prove anything to you. Thats a fallacy, and an expectation you need to rid yourself over. I dont need a link, Ive read extensively on the subject, obvs you have not. Go educate your own self.
OnDoutside
(19,988 posts)others will do so.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Its rude and childlike, unless youre quoting someone or the issue is obscure, theres no need. Sounds like youre not ready to sit w grownups.
OnDoutside
(19,988 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Though I've no doubt you'll righteously attest to your honesty, your character and your ethics. It's human nature to do so...
calimary
(81,612 posts)raven mad
(4,940 posts)Black man originally from Brazil, full name Joaia D'Oliviera, and the world's best bartender ever.
'Course I'm white. What do I know?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Is Shadow your only black friend?
WhiteTara
(29,739 posts)raven mad
(4,940 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,128 posts)Tucker08087
(621 posts)But it reminds me of something that happened on the local football field. Now let me explain. My town is predominantly white. There are very few minorities and my son happens to be one of them. (Hes adopted.) While he was playing Pop Warner football, he had a coach named Will. Coach Will is gorgeous. Hes about 6 foot five and built like a god, with a deep, sexy, kind voice that would make you swoon. Hes also black.
So I was sitting in the bleachers one evening as a group of fathers was discussing who would be coaching their sons. They couldnt remember Wills name, so they were trying to describe him. Big guy, bald but hair would be dark, muscular, athletic, 3 kids of his own. It went on for quite some time and I eventually figured out it was Will, and waited with curiosity to see what would happen. Someone finally said, Kinda dark, which started a comparison of tans and Like as tan as Bob over there? type questions. Finally, I said, Are you talking about Will? Oh yes! Thats his name! Of course! Before they moved on, I did have to add, And guys? He knows hes black.
I wasnt sure how to view this whole thing. There was an obvious discomfort in identifying him as being black, whereas I dont think there would have been if he were a woman, a redhead, or even a fat guy. That left me uneasy. But there also was no trace of the terms above or racial slurs, and I, having lived here my whole life, see this as a giant positive and a great improvement over the generations.
Because I see things from both the eyes of a white person but also through my sons eyes, I am keenly aware of racial relations in my small town. I had such hope, when he was younger, that perhaps the generation of his children would finally end the divisiveness. I truly believed that things were moving in the right direction. The jerk back to 1960s type bigotry since Trumpism has caused me whiplash as well as heartache, for our country as well as for my son, who grew up with a sense of pride of his ancestry and is confused that suddenly people feel okay about reacting to his looks in an openly negative way.
Ive now gotten completely off-topic. My apologies. But I guess I wanted to say in small town America, these terms are not as common. I am happy that we have moved on from slurs and the above side-slurs, but discomfort has caused some people to just pretend the differences dont exist. They are differences in appearance, like short, tall, bald, curly-haired, freckled, etc, but until that discomfort fades, it will always mean more than that, somewhere under the pleasantries.
MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 27, 2018, 09:23 AM - Edit history (1)
I can't think of a single black person who would have been disturbed by such a description. The point of the OP is that we shouldn't otherize people of color simply because we're people of color.
For example, "these, those and them" are words that would describe a person of color as the "other," while "the" or "A" simply describes someone who just happens to be a person of color or whatever feature that they may have.
One thing that I'm glad you've pointed out was their discomfort. Trust me, to a person of color, that discomfort would also be noticed right away. It's a sign of an underlying problem that I'm sure you're familiar with.
Thanks for relaying your experience.
Tucker08087
(621 posts)And hes the only black coach. So, My kid got that great coach. I forget his name! Josh? Mike? George? No, the black guy.
Oh! Will! Yeah, hes awesome.
Twenty minutes saved!
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)When trying to point us out in a crowd.
How will I know you?
Well, I'll be wearing a blue dress and I'm black.
Dark blue or light blue?
Light blue. And I'm black.
Umm. What color is your hair?
My hair is dark brown. But I'll be easy to spot because I'm black.
How tall are you?
BumRushDaShow
(130,146 posts)31. Youth
32. Unwed mother/single mother
33. Rapper
34. Food insecure
35. Food stamp/SNAP recipient
36. Menace to society
37. You people
38. Slum dweller
39. Poor
40. Drop out
41. Gang banger/Blood/Crip
42. Homeless
43. Crack addict/mother/baby
44. Truant
45. Ex-con
46. Car-jacker
47. Rapist
48. Predator
49. Animal
50. Savage
51. Shop-lifter
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Evergreen Emerald
(13,071 posts)Or is this a post indicating that white people are racist and purposefully use dog whistles? (all white people?)
Or is this a post of the luxury of whiteness? That it is assumed the language refers to white people (or black people) unless the color is specifically stated? Just like the word "Manager" is a way to say white male without saying white male?
"At risk" how can this be stated without considered racist? Or is it that if the person were white, the phrase would be "at risk white person?" And if there is no color designation, it is assumed the at risk youth is black? Assumed by whom?
I think these are difficult conversations. Racism and bias are hard to discuss. Your thread (and Sheshes') are good starts, but they are incomplete and accusatory. The posts are not raising the level of discourse, but pitting an "us against them"
It is also sad. Because, if this is the lens people of color look through, how can I have a conversation with a person of color without them seeing racism? "My renter is behind on her rent." "The 4th grader I tutor is at risk." While I believe I am having a conversation, the person of color is seeing racism?
fishwax
(29,152 posts)Rather, the point is that these words are mechanisms which contribute to the racist infrastructure of our culture. All words have multiple shades of meaning which reveal or assert themselves in different contexts, tones of voice, etc. The point of this list is that these words have particularly valences which it's worth being aware of. It doesn't mean that every time you use the word "renter" you're being racist (and many of these words, obviously, can include white people at times as well--I'm a renter, for instance). But it's worth being aware of how these words *are* used in other contexts and so on. And it's worth interrogating them and, when possible, pointing out the structural racism that they help to reveal.
One of the ways that gold prospectors use to hunt for gold was by looking for other minerals in certain combinations on the surface. It would be extremely rare to see a vein of exposed gold, but if you could find certain "indicator minerals" on the surface than you might have a good idea that gold deposits might be somewhere beyond. These words are like indicator minerals for the structural racism that people of color have to deal with. Sometimes "renter" refers to a specific person (who may or may not be a person of color). Other times, a phrase like "mostly renters" might be a way of sharing information about the demographics of a neighborhood in the midst of a real estate discussion. Indicator mineral.
BumRushDaShow
(130,146 posts)It is "assumed" because of misuse of "statistics" that don't focus on total numbers but rely on "percentages".
For example this -
Because the definition of an at-risk youth is so broad, in some respects, all youth are at risk in one way or another. So who fits the technical definition of 'at risk?' An at-risk youth is a child who is less likely to transition successfully into adulthood. Success can include academic success and job readiness, as well as the ability to be financially independent. It also can refer to the ability to become a positive member of society by avoiding a life of crime. We will look at factors that lead to children being identified as at-risk and how those factors can adversely affect successful transition into adulthood.
Poverty: The Major Predictor
Children who come from low-income families are much less likely to transition successfully into adulthood. A study by the US Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) analyzed census data from 2008 and found that household income dramatically impacts youth outcomes. Youth from low-income families are more likely to be teen mothers, engage in gang activity and delinquent behaviors, and are less likely to graduate from a 4-year college than are youth from middle-income and high-income families.
Poverty is a huge risk factor for children, and unfortunately, it is all too common. According to a report compiled by the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention (OJJDP), over 20% of children lived in poverty in 2010. Minority children are more likely to be living in poverty, and, therefore, more likely to be at risk. Unfortunately, the DHHS survey found increased delinquency, teen pregnancy, and dropout rates among minorities. For example, nearly one in three Hispanic children and one in three black children live in poverty, or below the federal poverty line, compared to only one in ten white children.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/what-is-at-risk-youth-definition-statistics.html
When you look at the above, although the statistics may be "true", they serve to mask total numbers based on population. I.e., although it cites "one in ten white children being 'below the federal poverty line'", it dismisses that they exist at all despite their obvious larger numbers when you look at the "whole" since their race is in the majority. And the above asserts that since there are "higher percentages" of "poor" within a group, then that group (as a whole) has a higher chance of being "at risk" vs only those in the noted economic categories (e.g., 33% for blacks) being "at risk". They in essence ignore the other 67% who are NOT "at risk" but have lumped them in anyway.
I.e., there are more "poor white children" than "poor black children" because overall, there are more whites than blacks, but the "face of poverty" is NEVER "white".
So when you "unskew" the numbers (remember that word?) -
By Race, White Children Make Up the Biggest Percentage of Americas Poor
New York City A fact sheet released today by the National Center for Children in Poverty (NCCP) shows that, contrary to some common stereotypes about Americas poor, at least one-third of the 13 million children living in poverty are white.
Poverty affects children of all colors, contrary to stereotypes. The notion held by many Americans that poverty is not a white problem is simply false, says Jane Knitzer, EdD, director of NCCP, a research center at Columbia Universitys Mailman School of Public Health. The sooner all Americans realize these facts about poverty, the better chance we have of eradicating it.
The NCCP fact sheet shows that among Americas poor children, 4.2 million are white, 4 million are Latino, 3.6 million are African American, 400,000 are Asian, and 200,000 are American Indian.
While the figures indicate that indeed more white children are poor, they also show, however, that higher percentages of minorities live in poor families:
10% of white children (4.2 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among white children range from 7% in Texas to 12% in Michigan.
27% of Latino children (4 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among Latino children range from 19% in Florida to 35% in Pennsylvania.
33% of black children (3.6 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among black children range from 29% in California and Florida to 47% in Ohio.
12% of Asian children (400,000) and 40% of American Indian (200,000) Comparable state comparisons are not possible due to small sample sizes.
<...>
http://www.nccp.org/media/releases/release_34.html
(from 2007 - http://www.nccp.org/media/releases/pdf/release_34.pdf
Here is the above organization's most recent data -
As Figure 5 illustrates, the percentages of low-income and poor children under 18 vary by race and ethnicity: Hispanics comprise the largest share of all low-income children (36 percent, or 10.5 million) and poor children (36 percent, or 5.0 million).5
Black, American Indian, and Hispanic children are disproportionately low income and poor (Figure 6).
http://www.nccp.org/publications/pub_1194.html
Meaning that in the conscious effort to establish the "disproportionality", the fact that white poor "at risk" children DO exist, gets glossed over and thus deemed as "not existing in any meaningful way". Yet looking at the above graph, 51 percent of ALL low income + poor ARE WHITE.
In essence, the "narrative" is that "most" POC are "poor" because that is all that is being emphasized by using "percentages" vs whole numbers. And so the resentment builds against "lazy poor POC" while poor whites are rarely discussed because their "intra-group percentages" are "lower" than those of POC, despite whites making up THE LARGEST FRACTION OF TOTAL "POOR", BOTH PERCENTAGE AND BY WHOLE NUMBERS. Thus the attempt to describe and attack "the gap" ends up skewing the entire data set, which is then re-purposed and repackaged by the Rush Limbaughs and Sean Hannitys for nefarious stereotyping.
When Democrats and progressives (piggybacking on MLK) talk about a "Poor People's Campaign", the "perception" is that it is a "POC only issue" because the oft-cited "statistics" don't really show or highlight "poor whites". Thus it makes it difficult to bridge the racial gap among the "larger society" in working to help ALL poor, because it is considered "a black thing". But then on the distaff side, in that same effort to shrink the gap, a subset of "whites" (not "poor" or "low income" ) but purported as being "working class, fairy-wand transformed into middle class", ends up being a focus, and the true "poor white" gets shafted right along with "poor POC".
ck4829
(35,098 posts)Sylvarose
(210 posts)This is actually really thought-provoking. There are some of these terms I have never used, some I have to admit I have without thinking of the bias or the inherent racism (inner city). I will be honest though there were two phrases which I actually always associate with poor "white" people. Maybe it's because of the demographics of where I grew up, but when I see or hear "section 8" or "low socioeconomic status" I don't think "black." I think of the people I knew who lived in section 8 housing or low income, people in the trailer park near where I grew up.
On the other hand, growing up in the age of Regan, unfortunately, the word "welfare" does not make me think "poor white."
Thanks for the list. It's really a thoughtful exercise in the power of rhetoric and prejudice.
JustAnotherGen
(32,070 posts)To me - my own bias -
When I read/hear - section 8 - in my community?
It's white folks who use heroin/opioids. That's who is falling through the cracks in the 6th wealthiest county in America.
get the red out
(13,468 posts)I grew up in a small, 98% white town in Kentucky, everything on that list that doesn't have to do with someone in a large city = "white" to me as a kid. The irony was that there were a lot of Doctors in our area that were originally from other countries, most of them were people of color, so their disposable income was much higher than most of the people who grew up in the town. We were lucky to have them back in the hills of Kentucky then. Not just any Doctor would have put up with living in such a small town.
Sylvarose
(210 posts)...my hometown was very "lily white" when I was growing up. I can only remember knowing three people of color in my childhood. One was my 2nd-grade teacher, another was an old family friend was a father/big brother figure to my father and was on the city council and had an executive position with a local phone company, and the third was a classmate of my brother's.
My parents tried very hard to raise us without racial prejudice. Off-color jokes weren't allowed, they watched the language we used, and I remember my mother used to buy me black versions of popular baby dolls to play with. Back in the 70s sometimes the only time she could find them was when she traveled down south for her job. Anwya, because of that, I had an early understanding of what racism and prejudice meant even if I didn't have words for the concept.
I remember when I went to kindergarten and first grade and brought my black dolls, none of my friends would play with them because I was told: "white girls don't play with black babies." I couldn't understand why they believed it. They were all my dolls and I'd always played with them. Years later my Mom confessed she did that on purpose. She wanted to expose me to diversity at an early age, to know that not everyone looked like me, and knew there wasn't much opportunity in my hometown. I think she gave me a wonderful gift.
I'm not saying I grew up free of bias and prejudice. I'm white; I have privilege. I try very hard to be aware of those moments, actions, thoughts, and words that reveal underlying assumptions or beliefs that are racist. It's a work in progress.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Or we could talk about white people by calling them cricket players....but damn, there are a lot of black ones.
It is all so confusing. This broadbrushing, name calling is so tiresome.
JustAnotherGen
(32,070 posts)Calls football players who are black - Sons of Bitches. His words - not mine.
Black Athletes are a target of not only Trump, but "its'" fan club too. They don't us like black folks in general but really hate when we are millionaires. The below is an article from Politico.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/08/donald-trump-johnstown-pennsylvania-supporters-215800
The thing that irritates me to no end is this NFL shit, Schilling told me in her living room. Im about ready to go over the top with this shit. We do not watch no NFL now. Theyre Dallas Cowboys fans. We banned em. We dont watch it.
Schilling looked at her husband, Dave McCabe, whos 67 and a retired high school basketball coach. She nodded at me. Tell him, she said to McCabe, what you said the NFL is
McCabe looked momentarily wary. He laughed a little. I dont remember saying that, he said unconvincingly.
Schilling was having none of it. Youre the one that told me, liar, she said.
She looked at me.
The NFL?
N*ggers for life, Schilling said.
For life, McCabe added.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)No doubt, it's very, very important to many people to dismiss the obvious as broad brushing, else the wee bias might get starved for nutrition.
Which is also tiresome, but will be quickly rationalized as righteous discourse, as the pretense is most consistent.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)JustAnotherGen
(32,070 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)And even more terms that are either so broad as to be useless in they or them and transient.
RobinA
(9,916 posts)are pretty far-fetched. But hey, keep telling me what I REALLY mean when I speak. It's a very effective strategy.
EllieBC
(3,052 posts)and vulnerable because of that?
Pretend linguists think they know it all.
JustAnotherGen
(32,070 posts)I don't know if she is - but if she is -
It's generally assumed it was an active choice - or she's now divorced/widowed.
If she's black (I'm a black woman and understand the 'stigma') - then it's assumed if she has multiple children, there are multiple 'baby daddy', she is on TANF, on SNAP, and drives a Cadillac.
That image was FIRST portrayed by Ronald Reagan in 1976 in Philadelphia Mississippi. Google 'Welfare Queen'.
Also in 1994 the Contract on America (oops - WITH America) really targeted in particular black women. They created enough in there to appeal to extremist republicans AND moderate republicans so as to not irritate either group. Pat Buchanan ran several times for President as the original MAGA guy.
Esquire article - talks about Pat Buchanan
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a54275/charge-of-the-right-brigade/
Book Review of Washington and the Contract with America:
https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/jfnpr/jfreview.htm
I actually own this book.
It took them 18 years to drill into the DOMINANT cultures brain that 'welfare', 'single mom' equals 'black'.
So a highly educated black woman - let's say she's a physicians who got married, had kids, and then her husband died -
If she meets certain folks - has to explain "well this is how it went". It's assumed we are ALL from the ghetto (especially my age group - mid 40's). I came of age politically in the early 1990's and was interning in DC in the summer of 1994.
You can't really just talk about 'Contract With America' without discussing Buchanan's influence on the GOP.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)So a highly educated black woman - let's say she's a physicians who got married, had kids, and then her husband died -
It is a phrase, set off by itself as a paragraph. Never mind the superfluous s after physician. What the hell are you saying?
My doctor is a black woman, and I really tried to figure that out. I have never seen her explain anything, nor should she. She is older than you. And perhaps more secure in herself.
JustAnotherGen
(32,070 posts)Off to search for any responses you've given Effieblack over the past few months.
This should be a lot of fun.
Take all the fucking jabs you want. Let me know if you need a definition for fucking.
pwb
(11,319 posts)As democrats we should leave the word before people to republicans. We are just people.
sarisataka
(18,947 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Can you list 30 non-biased replacement words white people should use for these things? What's the alternative to single parent? How about vulnerable? They (good grief)?
This is just another vague list of words that have actual meaning. I understand if you want to argue that people hear different things when different words are used, but that's not the claim here.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)The intent is to divide. I usually send them to the trash bin pretty damn quickly, after I read simply for amusement. Same ops every time.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Iggo
(47,603 posts)Response to MrScorpio (Original post)
mokawanis This message was self-deleted by its author.