General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums5.7 billion dollars... that's a lot of money
What do you think the amount the White House will say it's OK with losing in accounting "errors", "accidental" overcharges, tax returns that don't add up, money disappearing through tubes of shell companies, etc.?
You know just for the sake of comparison... Sergei Magnitsky in Russia exposed a government tax return fraudulent document that was the equivalent of 230 million dollars. That would be 15 billion rubles in Russia today.
But I'm sure the Trump admin wouldn't just 'lose' 230 million dollars, right?
TrishaJ
(798 posts)He is desperate for the money for some reason because now he is trying to divert funds from disaster relief to the "wall." If it's NOT about the money and REALLY about the wall, he surely is one sick motherfucker!!
mahina
(17,770 posts)In his lifetime.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211657922
From a Houston-based civil engineer, shared on FB.
Howdy.
To recap: Im a licensed structural and civil engineer with a MS in structural engineering from the top program in the nation and over a decade of experience on high-performance projects, and particularly of cleaning up design disasters where the factors werent properly accounted for, and Im an adjunct professor of structural analysis and design at UH-Downtown. I have previously been deposed as an expert witness in matters regarding proper construction of walls and the various factors associated therein, and my testimony has passed Daubert.
Am I a wall expert? I am. I am literally a court-accepted expert on walls.
Structurally and civil engineering-wise, the border wall is not a feasible project. Trump did not hire engineers to design the thing. He solicited bids from contractors, not engineers. This means its not been designed by professionals. Its a disaster of numerous types waiting to happen.
What disasters?
Off the top of my head...
1) It will mess with our ability to drain land in flash flooding. Anything impeding the ability of water to get where it needs to go (doesnt matter if there are holes in the wall or whatever) is going to dramatically increase the risk of flooding.
2) Messes with all kind of stuff ecologically. For all other projects, we have to do an Environmental Site Assessment, which is arduous. Theyre either planning to circumvent all this, or they havent accounted for it yet, because thats part of the design process, and this thing hasnt been designed.
3) The prototypes they came up with are nearly impossible to build or dont actually do the job. This article explains more:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.engineering.com/amp/17599.html
And so on.
The estimates provided for the cost are arrived at unreasonably. You can look for yourself at the two-year-old estimate that you see everyone citing.
http://fronterasdesk.org/sites/default/files/field/docs/2016/07/Bernstein-%20The%20Trump%20Wall.pdf
It does not account for rework, complexities beyond the prototype design, factors to prevent flood and environmental hazard creation, engineering redesign... Its going to be higher than $50bn. The contractors will hit the government with near CONSTANT change orders. Cost overrun will be the name of the game. It will not be completed in Trumps lifetime.
Im a structural forensicist, which means Im called in when things go wrong. This is a project that WILL go wrong. When projects go wrong, the original estimates are just *obliterated*. And when that happens, good luck getting it fixed, because there arent that many forensicists out there to right the ship, particularly not that are willing to work on a border wall project a large quotient of us are immigrants, and besides, we cant afford to bid on jobs that are this political. Were small firms, and were already busy, and we dont gamble our reputations on political footballs. So youd end up with a revolving door of contractors making a giant, uncoordinated muddle of things, and itd generally be a mess. Good money after bad. The GAO agrees with me.
And it wont be effective. I could, right now, purchase a 32 foot extension ladder and weld a cheap custom saddle for the top of the proposed wall so that I can get over it. I dont know who they talked to about the wall design and its efficacy, but it sure as heck wasnt anybody with any engineering imagination.
Another thing: we are not far from the day where inexpensive drones will be able to pick up and carry someone. This will happen in the next ten years, and its folly to think that the coyotes who ferry people over the border wont purchase or create them. Theyre low enough, quiet enough, and small enough to quickly zip people over any wall we could build undetected with our current monitoring setup.
Lets have border security, by all means, but lets be smart about it. This is not smart. Its not effective. Its NOT cheap. The returns will be diminishing as technology advances, too. This is a ridiculous idea that will never be successfully executed and, as such, would be a monumental waste of money. 🤷🏻?♀️
ck4829
(35,096 posts)Boy, if that doesn't sound like 'COMMIT FRAUD HERE' then I don't know what would.