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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBernie: 'My Opponents' Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates 'Regardless...
Bernie: My Opponents Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates Regardless of What They Stand Forby Tommy Christopher | Jan 24th, 2019, 3:55 pm
-snip-
In a lengthy profile for GQ Magazine, Sanders once again railed against what he calls identity politics, telling the magazine that he believes his opponents care only about fielding candidates based on race, gender, or sexuality:
Fact Check: The only arguable opponent of Sanders who has said anything like this is Stormy Daniels attorney Michael Avenatti, who told Time Magazine that the 2020 Democratic nominee better be a white male because When you have a white male making the arguments, they carry more weight.
Sanders has a long history of dismissing the concerns of women and minorities, obsessing over white voters, as well as seeming to excuse racism.
After the 2016 election, Sanders hit a similar theme when he told a crowd of supporters Its not good enough for somebody to say hey Im a Latina vote for me that is not good enough, and went on to add It is not good enough for somebody to say, Im a woman, vote for me.'
more:
https://www.mediaite.com/online/bernie-my-opponents-want-black-white-gay-latino-or-women-candidates-regardless-of-what-they-stand-for/
The link to the GQ interview is in the first sentence of the article, above
Eliot Rosewater
(31,137 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)But you should hear me scream!
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)brush
(53,977 posts)stonecutter357
(12,698 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,023 posts)qazplm135
(7,447 posts)he just doesn't get it. He's not going to win the nomination if he cannot inspire minority voters and women to come vote for him, and this ain't the way to do it. He doesn't know how to work with others or even frame his message in a way that he apparently doesn't view as some sort of impermissible compromise.
we can do it
(12,217 posts)Kitchari
(2,169 posts)Yeah, good to have more proof.
Thanks Don
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,552 posts)(From a little red acetate square included with the album -- the tracks the publisher refused to put on the LP).
Cha
(298,035 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,552 posts)BS seems to be in a time warp.
Either that or, argle bargle gargle ooof.
Cha
(298,035 posts)the "time warp" was dead on.
I don't think he has a clue what his "opponents" want..
That nobody said EVER!
And, what's up with Michael Avenatti's quote?..
More complete tone deafness.
betsuni
(25,801 posts)were being held in jail for months or years, even though they've never been convicted of a crime, simply because they can't afford bail." This was LAST YEAR. "I really didn't know this was happening."
Cha
(298,035 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,552 posts)My first thought was, "Dude, you're done."
Cha
(298,035 posts)for awhile there.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)or "I'm a latina, that's enough to vote for me," is insulting.
And it was when he ran against a female opponent for Vermont Governor, and said it in reference to her.
He lost, but didn't seem to learn a lesson about that sort of campaigning.
Cha
(298,035 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Which is sad.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)He really needs to buy a clue.
betsuni
(25,801 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)the Democratic nomination. Oh brother.
Cha
(298,035 posts)exactly what he's thinking.
And, what's with that "opponents"? Is this his declaration that he's running again?
betsuni
(25,801 posts)Usually opponents are in the opposition party. I wonder who he's thinking of.
Cha
(298,035 posts)the date. Good find!
BS is insulting the Dems with his false premise.. it's not true no matter how many times he goes there.
betsuni
(25,801 posts)The vaginas and exciting skin colors distract us. Thanks, Bernie!
Cha
(298,035 posts)lol.. yes we're Soooooooooo DISTRACTED!
Most of us DEMS want someone who is qualified and can beat trump. I don't care what color they are or gender.
And, he knows this.
grr
yardwork
(61,785 posts)betsuni
(25,801 posts)because she's a woman. In his mind both of them are corrupt elitists so otherwise why would we vote for them, so I guess it makes sense if you're Bernie. But if he tries it this time... At least everyone knows exactly what's coming.
I'lll take what President Obama and Hillary Actually Accomplished for our Country and the Planet over words any day.
radius777
(3,635 posts)They don't understand that most Democratic voters are center-left pragmatists who vote accordingly... the success of Clintonism wasn't a DLC conspiracy, but a realignment within the Dem party, that now gets most of its voters from diverse metropolitan areas across the country.
sheshe2
(84,060 posts)Thank you betsuni!
yardwork
(61,785 posts)betsuni
(25,801 posts)yardwork
(61,785 posts)dsc
(52,173 posts)this statement is tone deaf period.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)Please stay in the Senate and forget whatever silly bullshit it is you're planning.
pnwmom
(109,024 posts)By insulting them?
He says "many" of his opponents just want a minority or woman "regardless of what they stand for." He couldn't be more wrong. If that were the case, we'd all be supporting Ben Carson and Condeleeza Rice and Nikki Haley.
When is Bernie ever going to learn? I think the answer is never.
boston bean
(36,225 posts)LisaM
(27,850 posts)His appeal is completely lost on me. I just see an angry person, who disrupted the convention, and ended up getting a lot of what he said he wanted - no TPP, undoing NAFTA, and, if some quotes I read not too long ago are correct, getting out of NATO or at least having a weakened NATO.
The spectacle of two angry white men inciting people at rallies in the summer of 2016 is going to stick with me for a long time.
Response to LisaM (Reply #29)
brandnewday2009 This message was self-deleted by its author.
yardwork
(61,785 posts)MrGrieves
(315 posts)I have friends and family that have gotten upset over the things I called out about him. They just won't see it.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I learned that legal racism and misogyny, like we had here is at its heart about economics. Even during the great migration while blacks found factory jobs they got the shittist, lowest paid work. Look at the actions recently in the GM plant in Ohio.
The southern white progressives who loved FDRs programs until they were expanded to people of color by LBJ proved that. They kept FDR from expanding them to the minority population.
That is one reason he will never win southern primaries.
I certainly do not think BS personally feels this way, but language like that above stirs up memories.
Very tone deaf. The base of the party in my state are African American females.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)calimary
(81,597 posts)Go AWAY, Bernie. You've done more than enough damage.
Cha
(298,035 posts)lapucelle
(18,402 posts)Cha
(298,035 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,859 posts)Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)been throwing serious shade and specifically attacking the "identity politics" frame.
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)Renew Deal
(81,898 posts)Rather than some people being at a disadvantage (other than economic, he believes that too).
Cha
(298,035 posts)That's not true.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)You know what else isn't true? It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "ideologically bankrupt". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "corrupt". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is "the party of the one-percent". It's NOT TRUE that there's "no difference between Democrats and Republicans." It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "do-nothings". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party "doesn't care about climate change."
It serves no good purpose for anyone to say these types of things that falsely put Democrats and the Democratic party in a negative light.
All I'm saying is that when anyone smears and denigrates the Democratic party, it only serves to divide and weaken us... and a weakened Democratic party benefits the GOP, and Trump, and Russia.
, Cha! Aloha!
Cha
(298,035 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and minority folks and women will have more, but still be at the bottom.
pass.
droidamus2
(1,699 posts)Yes you are. Bernie is not saying in any way that he is against women, blacks, latinos, etc. He is just saying what they believe in and the kinds of policies they will push for are more important. Personally all things being equal as far as a candidate pushing for progressive programs the fact that they are a minority or a woman might be a deciding factor. On the otherhand if the candidate was a very conservative Democrat I would not vote for her just because she was a woman. Bernie is not saying that their race or sex is not important he is just saying that he believes policy and what you are willing to fight for should come first.
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)Well said.
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)... strawman fallacy.
Glamrock
(11,803 posts)Unless of course, you have a grudge against Bernie. Hell, a good number of people here who are currently bashing the man for this statement are the same people who, two weeks ago were responding in kind to multiple posts about how "it's time for a woman goddamnit!" The irony is astounding.
Cha
(298,035 posts)on his own words.. and they're not true
And, who the hell are his "opponents", anyway? The Democratic Party?
Most Dems/Democratic Base/Dem leaders want someone who is qualified and can beat trump.. and sure we got a lot of Democratic Women in Congress swept in the Blue Wave. They were the most qualified for the job.
Link to tweet
Cha
(298,035 posts)Nobody thinks that and BS is trying to get people to believe that.
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)... that he's running against takes the position he stated in the OP.
Yaws strawman defenses of Sanders is more telling than his own statements
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)That is not exactly accurate. He is stating what he believes they believe in. He is lumping large groups together and making claims about them as a way to lash out and stay relevant.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Cha
(298,035 posts)Apollyonus
(812 posts)with skewing prisms.
I thought he would learn in 2 years that social justice is not the same as economic justice.
But you know what they say about dogs and learning tricks.
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)mcar
(42,467 posts)still_one
(92,509 posts)mcar
(42,467 posts)nycbos
(6,044 posts)Apollyonus
(812 posts)"Retirement" comes to mind.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)0rganism
(23,991 posts)i guess Bernie's kind of like one of those expensivee aged cheeses - if it has what you want for a specific recipe, nothing else will do, but taken on its own it smells like mildew and/or dirty socks, and you probably don't want it in your fridge for long.
but honestly, i'd take a hunk of Limburger as president over what we have now.
Mike Nelson
(9,984 posts)
how can someone who had so many relatable things to say spout out this stuff? Is it an excerpt of some grander idea? In any case, he should stop complaining about how others make appeals re: diversity and tell voters how he - not others - is going to be the candidate for diversity.
Renew Deal
(81,898 posts)But the candidate that checks the right boxes
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)What matter is the positions.
still_one
(92,509 posts)women, minorities, etc. by assuming they don't look at the issues, they only look at the gender, color, etc. Not only is that bullshit, it is playing "identity politics" itself.
Cha
(298,035 posts)said that EVER.
he's set up a false premise.
Thank You!
still_one
(92,509 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And I understand that view even as I disagree with it.
still_one
(92,509 posts)ambiguity in what they say
Cha
(298,035 posts)spooky3
(34,527 posts)as he stated them. I have not heard anyone say anything like that.
Cha
(298,035 posts)and specifically who you're trying to marginalize.. or is it everybody?!
Spooky
spooky3
(34,527 posts)How are you, Cha?
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)still_one
(92,509 posts)en mass, to suppress voting, when the facts don't support it
Cha
(298,035 posts)yardwork
(61,785 posts)Many of us have some ideas about why Bernie feels the need to promote this blatantly false smear over and over again.
Obviously, it fills some need in Bernie. I'm trying to think what it might be....
mcar
(42,467 posts)Please,name one candidate for office who said that?
yardwork
(61,785 posts)I have never heard a single candidate say anything like that.
pnwmom
(109,024 posts)based on their race, rather than their positions. I didn't see any Democrats or progressives urging a vote for Nikki Haley or Ben Carson because of their race.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)As to Sanders necessarily implying that, I disagree, but I think that he focuses on economics without realizing how race and gender based conservative politics is.
Apollyonus
(812 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Democrats? Or primary opponents? I didn't think he'd declared.
NNadir
(33,586 posts)...an asshole.
I'm an old white man like him, and the last thing I want in the world is for him as a Presidential candidate, and no, it's not because he's old and white.
Response to DonViejo (Original post)
RandySF This message was self-deleted by its author.
Fla Dem
(23,882 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
yardwork
(61,785 posts)Lonestarblue
(10,159 posts)I really hope he does not decide to launch an independent candidacy for president. He would just split the vote and ensure a Trump election (unless hes in jail in which case it would be a Pence election) with no chance of actually winning. Im so tired of spoilers and the people who think a protest vote is worth it, even knowing their candidte has no chance of winning and they would end up with the worst candidate winning.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)No democrat should be using identity politics except to attack the GOP
... and I like Bernie (Though not for 2020)
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Booed perhaps the greatest living American. Cause he was not on their team.
That told me all I needed to know.
Gothmog
(145,894 posts)My whip warned me of this stunt about 20 to 30 minutes in advance. The Clinton campaign had a good whipping infrastructure in place and knew that the sanders delegates were planning to boo Congressman John Lewis well in advance. My whip later told me that sanders was asked to stop this stunt and declined
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I hope it gets made into campaign ads in the event he runs.
Gothmog
(145,894 posts)They will be glad to show up in ads
Gothmog
(145,894 posts)There were some fun posts on that page tonight. There are some really mad Clinton types who have not forgotten and will not forgive.
Apollyonus
(812 posts)Sanders NEVER called his supporters out and never punished them either. He was in it with them it seemed like.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I just had a BS supporter justify booing John Lewis not 5 minutes ago.
I could not believe it. My response may put me at risk. Oh well.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)If we want leaders to truly represent diversity then we must not be smart enough to make sure they're also qualified.
I cannot roll my eyes enough with this guy.
D23MIURG23
(2,851 posts)But given the candidates who have already announced, I think this is a pretty blatant false dichotomy.
Maybe Bernie is stressed because Warren is running on similar positions to his, and he doesn't have any obvious advantage against her. She is younger, most likely has more goodwill from party elites, and she could be our first woman president.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)calimary
(81,597 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,859 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I do agree that some in the Democratic Party are pushing identity politics for its sake alone. People pushing this one or that one because of the identity, without even knowing the person's specific stance on a wide variety of issues (we all assume any Dem. candidate follows the Dem. Party Platform). But I don't know who he means by opponents. The people I've heard are just people in the public...no one that Bernie would know.
I don't think this is a big issue. I hope it doesn't turn out to be.
Republicans thought Obama won because he was part Af. American. Some people in the Dem. Party thought so, too. But I don't think so. That's not why I voted for him. He won because he was, well, Obama. An exceptional, charismatic, brilliant politician who seemed very capable of being the leader of the free world. That he was half Af. American was a perk, in my view.
I still view things the same way. I'm waiting for an exceptional, charismatic, brilliant politician who seems capable of being the leader of the free world, whatever the identity of that person is. It would be great if it could be a woman or minority. I tend to believe it hasn't been before now, because of "identity" politics that said it had to be a white male. It's impossible that there was no charismatic, exceptional female politician before now who could have been elected, but for prejudice against her identity.
Chemisse
(30,824 posts)'This just isn't fair to us white guys.'
Perhaps that is an uncharitable take on it, but it's the first thing that popped into my mind.
RandySF
(59,756 posts)Support me unless you want engage in identity politics. I heard this crap during Sharice Davidss primary.
Response to DonViejo (Original post)
Post removed
Apollyonus
(812 posts)violetpastille
(1,483 posts)MontanaMama
(23,367 posts)NotHardly
(1,062 posts)...yeah, maybe he ought to think and then talk
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)declaiming, and wagging his finger.
I requires no actual interaction, reciprocity or teamwork.
I believe he feels that he is the smartest person in any room, and therefore doesn't feel any need to learn from anyone else.
Many people that agree with his ideas think that this is a strength.
Apollyonus
(812 posts)Apollyonus
(812 posts)no injustice exists except economic injustice.
He thinks that racism, homophobia, misogyny, xenophobia would all go away if everyone made a decent living.
It is a classic view of someone who is raised and has lived in completely white surroundings.
This view is anathema to the Democratic party's core beliefs and its core supporters.
He is better off not running ever again or go for intensive political rehab before he runs.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Racism and misogyny are based in large part on keeping an economic underclass.
Any study of the new deal makes it glaring obvious that southern whites loved government programs as long as they were for whites.
You cannot attack economic injustice without also attacking racial injustice. They are 2 peas in a pod.
He just cant seem to understand this. But being from Vermont I am not surprised.
Grow up in Louisiana and Arkansas like I did and it is obvious.
The most disgusting thing Sessions ever let out was his reason for opposing immigration and cutting social benefits. He wanted to force blacks back into the fields doing honest work.
The reason we pay teachers and nurses shit wages is that we got used to forcing smart women into those fields and then steals their labor by denying them other professional opportunities and pay based on their abilities. And still resist paying those professions what they deserve.
They dont exactly hide this shit.
Apollyonus
(812 posts)Senator Sanders has a long way to go to becoming a real Democrat and recognize the racism, misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia.
It is not all about money.
Extremely successful African Americans, LGBTQ, women and non-white ethnic minorities are still treated as second class citizens in this country. They already have money. Some are 1 percenters -- but the social injustice is still there and it. does. not. go. away.
Blaming Southern Whites of the past is not an excuse for Northern Whites of the present. Even when said person is (wrongly) seen as a messiah by some in these parts.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I agree with your post. But even in the north during the great migration while black Americans were given factory jobs they were paid less and given the shittiest jobs.
I readily admit that many if not most racist do not consider the economics of their beliefs. But let a black man do better than them and their racism goes into hyperdrive. That explains the reaction to President Obama. They still consider him illegitimate.
Because in their minds black men and women should never have more than any white man. Or woman.
Granted, being from the South where legally enforced racism was obviously about economics may cloud my judgment. But the largest racial massacres after Jim Crow like Tulsa, Ocoee and Rosewood were often set off because African Americans were gaining more wealth than some of their white neighbors.
Nuanced discussions like this is where communication is typed online comes up short. Were we sitting next to each other in a bar we would have no problem reaching consensus.
Have a nice evening.
Apollyonus
(812 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,859 posts)Jealously of black success is a major factor in racial discrimination and in the violence instigated against them
And its not a secret when a racist president shuts down government, he is hoping to hurt black people with good jobs who dont vote for him.
Its not just a Southern thing. White people in Detroit say things that Southerners would blush to say or even think.
Hekate
(91,006 posts)...or, would have been nice back in the day before retirement -- it would not have solved the essential wage disparity between "male" and "female" jobs. It would not solve gender discrimination or racial discrimination or all those issues we tried so hard to resolve with Affirmative Action.
Bernie and his ilk like to boast that they are blind to race and gender because they believe that makes them fairer than the rest of us. But at my age, I now believe it just makes them ...blind.
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)IronLionZion
(45,637 posts)but thankfully this time it will be very diverse with more women and minorities.
Sanders is obviously targeting the rust belt white voters who shifted to Trump. It doesn't hurt to have him out there campaigning in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, etc. to pick off enough Trump votes to make a difference. He won't do as well in the more diverse states. I doubt he would be our nominee.
Wounded Bear
(58,777 posts)we can do it
(12,217 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)of class cannot be ignored in favor of promoting the same old shit underneath diverse packaging, and we are supposed to take umbrage? The very Sanders who is actually liked most by people of color and women and least among all demographics, by white men, is suddenly being revealed here when he says what he's already said numerous times in the past, as what might I ask? and to who?
yardwork
(61,785 posts)I recognize that we all process things in our own way. Trust me when I tell you that the vast majority of women and people of color are deeply offended by Bernie's blithe assumption that we're voting for people just because they're women or people of color.
It's offensive.
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)You know they have to bring up Susan Collins, Clarence Thomas and Herman Caine....
Not that anyone right here in this thread has ever done so or anything.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)Cha
(298,035 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)and you believe them even when the numbers don't bear it out?
betsuni
(25,801 posts)What do you mean and who is doing it?
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)At least that is my take.
kcr
(15,326 posts)Plenty of us were pointing it out in 2016.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)betsuni
(25,801 posts)An example is in the OP: "It's not enough for somebody to say, 'Hey, I'm a Latina, vote for me'" and "It is not good enough for somebody to say 'I'm a woman, vote for me.'"
George II
(67,782 posts)On what do you base that conclusion? The only general election evidence we have and he has is in a state that has less than 5% people of color, statistically impossible to draw a conclusion on how he is "liked" by people of color, much less "most".
JCanete
(5,272 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Do you have a poll that has ultimate relevance?
JCanete
(5,272 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)I at least, have some evidence to point to that contradicts the other claim, which, apparently, has no such evidence to back it up.
George II
(67,782 posts)....if you have a poll with more relevance. So then YOU ask ME if I have one? Of course I don't have one, why would I?
Yes, you're right JCanete, context is important.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Description: Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.
Example #1:
God exists. Until you can prove otherwise, I will continue to believe that he does.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/145/Proving-Non-Existence
Cha
(298,035 posts)Cha
(298,035 posts)comradebillyboy
(10,188 posts)and good Democrats like Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden et al don't.
Cha
(298,035 posts)fantasy.
comradebillyboy
(10,188 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That's what diversity is?
Just packaging for "the same old shit?"
I know that he only hired POC for his Senate staff after it was pointed in the media, but I think he certainly has a much greater respect for diversity than your statement indicates you do.
Even considering he didn't think that the Vermont NAACP merited attendance at his Gathering.
MontanaMama
(23,367 posts)and buy Bernie a nice shovel.
Cha
(298,035 posts)A bigger nicer one.
George II
(67,782 posts)Perhaps a particular style of shovel normally used in the garden?
calimary
(81,597 posts)Hekate
(91,006 posts)Go home, Bernie. Just go back to white Vermont where a black female elected official was hounded from office by threats of violence and death, and ask her about "identity politics." And try to listen this time.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Sanders has never had to address it in order to get elected there.
If he had tried to run for office in a large diverse constituency that more closely resembles the US population, I think his political career may have turned out differently, and been much shorter.
And it's clear he didn't think that the Vermont NAACP merited any place at his Gathering.
Scruffy1
(3,257 posts)Time for the retirement home.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Yeah, ok. I keep posting this. But it is something I cant believe more democrats dont remember.
So it is kind of an obsession of mine. Maybe because I am still royally pissed of that one of the greatest Americans living and a Civil Rights Icon who got his head bashed in on Edmond Pettus bridge marching with MLK got booed at a Democratic convention.
And Bernie knew it was going to happen and sat there grinning like the cat that ate the canary while it happened. We all saw it.
Some things are unforgivable.
yardwork
(61,785 posts)honest.abe
(8,689 posts)Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #111)
Post removed
betsuni
(25,801 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)betsuni
(25,801 posts)She stole it. Lock her up. Build that wall. Drain the Swamp.
I guess three word slogans really work on some people.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)find a shit load of chanted slogans that given your sympathies(and mine mind) you'd be fine with.
betsuni
(25,801 posts)Yes, We Can. Stronger Together. Those are nice. It's the nutty ones designed to get people to think of Democrats as corrupt liars that I do not care for.
JI7
(89,288 posts)shows you are part of the same shitty bunch .
Cha
(298,035 posts)calimary
(81,597 posts)Gothmog
(145,894 posts)I was shocked when I got the text from my whip about the planned booing of Congressman John Lewis by the sanders delegates. Again, my whip warned me of this stunt 20 to 30 minutes in advance. In the real world, campaigns carefully vet their delegates. I know that I was vetted and I was on a committee that vetted other Clinton delegates. The reasons for this is that a candidate's delegates represents the candidate and bad conduct by such delegates will hurt the candidate and the campaign.
This was a planned stunt by the sanders delegates. The Clinton campaign knew about this stunt in time to send warning to her delegates. My whip told me that sanders was asked to stop this stunt and declined.
I am proud to have met Congressman John Lewis four times and to have pleasure of Congressman Lewis tell his "preaching to chickens" story four times. I truly admire Congressman Lewis and will not forget what happened at the National Convention
If sanders runs, this incident will be used in some ads.
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)Sanders statement is based on exactly that. His need to lump people together to the point he loses any meaning.
herding cats
(19,569 posts)The post was removed and the person is locked out of the thread.
Cha
(298,035 posts)Cha
(298,035 posts)calimary
(81,597 posts)One does NOT boo a towering figure like John Lewis. That disgusting episode told me all I needed to know about them.
George II
(67,782 posts)....not your opponents? After all, they're the ones that will choose our next nominee and president, not your opponents.
yardwork
(61,785 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)yardwork
(61,785 posts)trueblue2007
(17,245 posts)and what you said totally barfs me out
honest.abe
(8,689 posts)Bernie go home. You are not helping.
TheFarseer
(9,328 posts)Can't we all be concerned about income inequality no matter what race you are? If he had gone all in on calling for racial justice, the critics would just say, " shut up Bernie, you don't know what its like to be black" Just admit that he can't do anything to please you - not specifically talking to the op.
Cha
(298,035 posts)Caliman73
(11,760 posts)I liked Bernie's ideas about income and wealth disparity. I liked his populist brand of speech. I voted for him in the primary, but when I was listening to Mark Thompson, Joe Madison, and others I kept hearing how he would not go on their shows during the primary. Not even Nina Turner would go on. They just didn't even respond to requests to book him. Then I saw what he said about "identity politics" and it confirmed my concerns. He thinks that "diversity is enormously important" but he doesn't even understand why or he doesn't care. He is so narrowly focused, thinking that if we just increase income equality, that magically, people of color are going to be seen as equal.
He doesn't understand that women and people of color have been deliberately excluded from access to economic opportunity, even by the most progressive politicians, FDR, JFK, and others. He doesn't realize that President Obama could not and would not be a President for Black people because if he had shown any kind of preference or attention, he would likely have been killed. President Obama was already demonized for even trying to draw attention to disparate treatment of professor Gates when he was accosted by police in his own home, or when he pointed out similarities between Trayvon Martin and his own children, when Martin was killed by the racist George Zimmerman. Race is something that Bernie Sanders has never really had to consider, even when he was involved in the civil rights and student protests of the 60's. He could protest, then walk away and live his life while his Black colleagues in the struggle never could walk away because you cannot walk away from your Black or Brown skin.
That skin is who people see you for and they decide your worth based on that. They deny you home loans that you are qualified for, they turn down your application because your name is "too Black" sounding while they accept the EXACT same application for a White sounding name. Sanders doesn't see race because it is his privilege not to. He sees economic injustice but doesn't understand that economic injustice is inseparably tied to racial and gender inequality. You cannot address economic injustice without accepting that there is "Identity Politics" and that the White identity is the identity that matters most, and that needs to change, not "the system". The system is based on White norms and exclusionary to others. If you change the tax rates, that isn't going to stop redlining. It isn't going to stop people from subconsciously discriminating against Black and Brown job applicants, from passing women up on the STEM fields because of centuries of bias. We are SOCIAL animals not just economic animals. Our behavior is not based on money and acquiring wealth, it is based on our identity, on who we are, who we associate with, who shares our values, culture, religion, music, etc... Economics is what we think about because we have to eat and we have to buy things that make our lives livable and somewhat comfortable. Sanders needs to understand that ALL politics is IDENTITY politics, it really just depends on which identity is valuable and like I said, all of this time in America, the White identity has been the most important. White identity politics is just called politics, just like White history is just called History.
People of color aren't voting for people based solely on their gender or racial background. That view is patronizing and condescending. I would NEVER in a million years vote for Susana Martinez for any post, nor Alberto Gonzales. They are both Mexican-Americans like me, but their views are antithetical to mine. Sanders' statement appears to be saying that my political views are so shallow that I would vote solely based on what the candidate looked like. When Kamala Harris ran against Loretta Sanchez for US Senate, I did not vote for "the Latina" I voted for the best candidate, who's policies aligned with my own and who I saw would best represent California to the Nation. To think that I "vote for the Latina" is just an example of how many White people view people of color or how men view women. "You just support Hillary because she's a woman." No fuckhead, I support Hillary Clinton because she is smart, accomplished, was one of the most active first ladies, was Secretary of State and one of the most singularly qualified candidates. I will say this, given equal qualifications and similar qualities, I would support a candidate who shared my experiences and who looked like me, because I know that they would understand my needs. In the US for almost 2 centuries we, as people of color, and especially as women, have had to hope that older rich, White men could understand our experience or at least be sympathetic enough to it. At this point I do not trust that Sanders has the slightest idea about the real experiences of women or people of color. I do not trust him to fight for gender or racial equality and I think that he would through women, minorities, and immigrants under the bus in search of "class consciousness". I will not support him in the primary but if by some chance he happens to run for and win the Democratic nomination I will hold my nose and vote for him as the alternative to ANY Republican and then pray that my interests will be understood by a person who does not appear to know about or care about the experiences of people of color, or simply, the status quo for the last 240 years.
calimary
(81,597 posts)Hekate
(91,006 posts)Cha
(298,035 posts)Exactly. Gracias for your post, Caliman
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)it's just one excuse after another.
Cha
(298,035 posts)Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)I sat DU out during the 2015/2016 primaries.... because you know it gets When I came back on election night it was hacked and I lost my account.
yardwork
(61,785 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)uponit7771
(90,371 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,345 posts)as far as I am concerned.
we can do it
(12,217 posts)boston bean
(36,225 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Joe941
(2,848 posts)White and democrat are a bit out of vogue right now. I hope we can always judge people by there content.
Hekate
(91,006 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Just ask those poor Covington boys.
Joe941
(2,848 posts)Question for you: The black Hebrews were being racists towards Covington boys, agree?
All racism is wrong. I will not support racism towards any group of people especially minorities, but including whites. It has absolutely divided our country in horrible ways.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)that white men are at a disadvantage in the Democratic Party.
Is that clearer?
White men complaining of reverse racism/sexism are expected from Trumpers or over at JPR, but not here on DU.
Cha
(298,035 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cha
(298,035 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)athena
(4,187 posts)White male privilege allows a person to benefit from all the advantages of being white and male, and then turn around and claim he has been at a severe disadvantage all his life and that women and minorities have it so much easier.
I suggest you start actually listening to women and minorities. Learn about what we deal with every day before telling us we have it easier. Practice some empathy.
If Bernie had been female, he would have been called shrill, weak, and unqualified . If he had been black, he would have been dismissed as an angry black man, assuming he actually made it as far as the Senate and didnt end up in jail or murdered by a cop decades earlier.
And yet, we have to listen to white men mansplaining to us that Bernie, all along, has had it so tough because hes a white and male.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But they have a point. Just look at the free ride we've given to all of female and black Democratic Socialist senators with multiple marriages, a child out of wedlock, a propensity for disheveled hair and rumpled clothing, shaking their fingers and bellowing about the oligarchy ... THEY all get taken seriously, but poor Bernie can't catch a break ...
athena
(4,187 posts)You made the point I was trying to make, but with humor and fewer words!
Paladin
(28,285 posts)And take your irritating followers with you.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)If only Bernie were female or minority, he'd be taken much more seriously.
Poor poor Bernie
Joe941
(2,848 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Joe941
(2,848 posts)But since you ask... being white in america I'm positive is easier than being a minority. That is wrong.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)What Effie said: "If Bernie were female or minority, he'd be taken much more seriously."
I think that's pretty much what you said.
The fact that so many people are calling your statement an example of white male privilege should tell you something.
Cha
(298,035 posts)Cha
(298,035 posts)uponit7771
(90,371 posts)we can do it
(12,217 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)from those same jaggoff advisors...
No lessons learned at al
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)We will see how that plays out in the real world, outside of the echo chamber of liberal activists and party loyalists.
I have a feeling that the average person of some minority demographic cares less about such statements than "common sense" would suggest.
From what I hear, actual polls show that amongst all demographics Bernie is least popular amongst white males and old people.
For better or for worse, my bets are that most people, across demographics, will see Joe Biden as the "default candidate". And if Biden gets the nomination, chances are he will lose to Trump.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)We've already seen.
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)In 2016 Bernie started from zero name recognition and ended up with 43 percent of the popular vote against the "inevitable" candidate. Those are not bad results, by any stretch of the imagination.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Keep hope alive...
jalan48
(13,910 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)concerning election interference, and a misinformation campaign by Russia.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/
Since the election, the process of vetting Senator Sanders has truly started. Of course financial transparency is just a part of it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexism.html
Should he run again, that will make things very different.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And you 'hear' that white men and old people aren't the ones that make up Bernie's base.
Your "bets" are that Joe Biden is now going to be the candidate.
Got any statistics to back these feelings up?
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)The relative unpopularity of Bernie Sanders amongst old white males is discussed here:
https://www.vox.com/2018/12/19/18148681/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-approval-rating
And I said that I bet Biden will be seen as the "default candidate", not that he will get the nomination.
People who believe that minority voters will rally behind Kamala Harris might be in for a surprise. In 2016, from different interviews I gathered that a lot of what drove the support for Hillary Clinton amongst older black voters was the fact that she was seen as a "safe play". It is reasonable to assume that Biden will draw a significant chunk of the black vote for similar reasons.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Where have I heard that before?
Cha
(298,035 posts)betsuni
(25,801 posts)I guess if one believes the Democratic Party is a "failed ideology" their victory would seem to come out of the blue. Maybe he should rethink that.
Cha
(298,035 posts)thoughts on Woman Badass Nancy Pelosi? Not really.. doesn't matter.
I know we have people of all colors, genders, and orientations who are more qualified and dedicated than he is.
betsuni
(25,801 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)wasn't really getting it right in terms of priorities, and how our message, where it differs from his, isn't really resonating with people.
All those POC elected without his or OR's or "Social Justice Democrats" endorsement, in other words, "regardless of their positions."
The Blue Wave validated "his opponents," which from seem to be anyone who dissents in any way from the manifesto and doesn't get his endorsement.
betsuni
(25,801 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)LOL. Hard of Listening!
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,552 posts)Just to help this thread stay in sight of other Bernie threads.
Glad that little trash clicker is available.
peggysue2
(10,850 posts)Your opponents, the Democratic Party, can see through the film-flam. This is not 2016.
But if you insist? Please, proceed.
TeamPooka
(24,294 posts)to retire
stopbush
(24,398 posts)MaryMagdaline
(6,859 posts)wrong, do something about it. That's why she's running. I heard Elizabeth Warren talk about the dying middle class.
Not sure what Bernie means by "identity politics." These candidates are qualified and they are principled.
Cha
(298,035 posts)that, MM
MaryMagdaline
(6,859 posts)Cha
(298,035 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)spooky3
(34,527 posts)RandySF
(59,756 posts)Cha
(298,035 posts)I know who he is.
betsuni
(25,801 posts)Catch2.2
(629 posts)We shouldn't elect someone just because they are Black, white, latina, or female. We should elect them because they are black, white, latina, female and share the values that we do.
My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of peopleof black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-Americanaround a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. That is my view."
- BS
Response to Catch2.2 (Reply #285)
ehrnst This message was self-deleted by its author.