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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:05 PM Jan 2019

Bernie: 'My Opponents' Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates 'Regardless...

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

by Tommy Christopher | Jan 24th, 2019, 3:55 pm

-snip-


In a lengthy profile for GQ Magazine, Sanders once again railed against what he calls “identity politics,” telling the magazine that he believes his opponents care only about fielding candidates based on race, gender, or sexuality:

In a Democratic Party that is increasingly deriving its energy—not to mention its votes—from minorities and women, Sanders remains a critic of identity politics and a firm believer that issues of race, while important, are not as salient and determinative as those of class. “There are people who are very big into diversity but whose views end up being not particularly sympathetic to working people, whether they’re white or black or Latino,” he said. “My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. That is my view. Many of my opponents do not hold that view, and they think that all that we need is people who are candidates who are black or white, who are black or Latino or woman or gay, regardless of what they stand for, that the end result is diversity.” He hastened to add that “diversity is enormously important,” but there was a bigger goal: “to change society and create an economy and a government that work for all people.”


Fact Check: The only arguable “opponent” of Sanders who has said anything like this is Stormy Daniels attorney Michael Avenatti, who told Time Magazine that the 2020 Democratic nominee “better be a white male” because “When you have a white male making the arguments, they carry more weight.”

Sanders has a long history of dismissing the concerns of women and minorities, obsessing over white voters, as well as seeming to excuse racism.

After the 2016 election, Sanders hit a similar theme when he told a crowd of supporters “It’s not good enough for somebody to say ‘hey I’m a Latina vote for me’ that is not good enough,” and went on to add “It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.'”

more:
https://www.mediaite.com/online/bernie-my-opponents-want-black-white-gay-latino-or-women-candidates-regardless-of-what-they-stand-for/

The link to the GQ interview is in the first sentence of the article, above
286 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bernie: 'My Opponents' Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates 'Regardless... (Original Post) DonViejo Jan 2019 OP
I wish I could... ...cough cough....but I cant. Eliot Rosewater Jan 2019 #1
I'm self-editing madly NastyRiffraff Jan 2019 #41
The more he opens his mouth, the less you need to. LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #46
I'll say it for you...foot in mouth disease. brush Jan 2019 #53
. Squinch Jan 2019 #2
K&R stonecutter357 Jan 2019 #3
Huh. ismnotwasm Jan 2019 #4
tone deaf qazplm135 Jan 2019 #5
He's not a Democrat. we can do it Jan 2019 #190
This. n/t Kitchari Jan 2019 #232
WTELF? Cha Jan 2019 #6
wish I could answer, but all I got is ... Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #13
Rockabilly! Cha Jan 2019 #17
closest fit I could find Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #22
It's perfect.. you're right Cha Jan 2019 #28
Bernie, 2018: "I had no idea hundreds of thousands of Americans, particularly African-Americans, betsuni Jan 2019 #36
I know.. so much cluelessness. Cha Jan 2019 #49
I remember when Avenatti said that Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #50
And, he was doing so well.. Cha Jan 2019 #62
The implication that female candidates say, "I am a woman, that's enough to vote for me" ehrnst Jan 2019 #209
he learned NOTHING. Cha Jan 2019 #226
I appears that doesn't believe that he has anything to learn. ehrnst Jan 2019 #228
Wow. Tipperary Jan 2019 #7
Wut. betsuni Jan 2019 #8
Sick and tired of his point of view. MrsCoffee Jan 2019 #9
I do not understand how he would think this would be a good thing to say if he is attempting to gain UniteFightBack Jan 2019 #10
I'm glad he did so we know Cha Jan 2019 #14
It's odd because the interview was last year before anyone declared. betsuni Jan 2019 #42
Thanks, I didn't see Cha Jan 2019 #56
We're all so hopelessly stupid that we can't tell qualified from unqualified candidates. betsuni Jan 2019 #67
This is his biggest Insult of all. Cha Jan 2019 #81
Too few people recognize how condescending Bernie is. yardwork Jan 2019 #88
He still thinks we voted for Obama because he was the charismatic cool black guy and Hillary betsuni Jan 2019 #91
his loss. Cha Jan 2019 #96
Exactly, that's it in a nutshell. radius777 Jan 2019 #235
You made me lol! sheshe2 Jan 2019 #90
... betsuni Jan 2019 #95
;) sheshe2 Jan 2019 #98
People who didn't vote for Bernie are "his opponents." yardwork Jan 2019 #71
That's a long time to be cranky. betsuni Jan 2019 #93
He's used to it. yardwork Jan 2019 #113
and people wonder why he can't make inroads with minority voters dsc Jan 2019 #11
Ugh. BlueStater Jan 2019 #12
And THIS is supposed to encourage women and minorities to take another look at him? pnwmom Jan 2019 #15
Everything I ever said and/or thought of him has stood the test of truth and time. boston bean Jan 2019 #16
Same here. LisaM Jan 2019 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author brandnewday2009 Jan 2019 #72
I've noticed that too. yardwork Jan 2019 #119
Same here. MrGrieves Jan 2019 #174
Geez, even going to public school and university in the Deep South, GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #18
Things like this all but guarantee that he'll remain in the Senate! NurseJackie Jan 2019 #19
And even that is an unfortunate state of affairs. calimary Jan 2019 #154
He should remain in the Senate. Cha Jan 2019 #234
... lapucelle Jan 2019 #20
This is Obama's face about Kamala-Jamaica but it fits here.. Cha Jan 2019 #32
Really, she and her non-African elitist forebearers wintered in Jamaica MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #257
Heh. betsuni Jan 2019 #37
I think he's sore because the other 2020 potential candidates have Kahuna7 Jan 2019 #21
I'm starting to think Sanders doesn't ... REALLY ... value diversity, Am I way off? tia uponit7771 Jan 2019 #23
Let's be real. He isn't all that used to it. nt Kahuna7 Jan 2019 #24
He's the type that believes that good policy raises everyone Renew Deal Jan 2019 #34
Well he's not being straight up here.. Cha Jan 2019 #151
You know what else isn't true? NurseJackie Jan 2019 #192
Mahalo, Jackie! you're absolutely Cha Jan 2019 #225
so we'll just raise everyone up CreekDog Jan 2019 #218
Yes droidamus2 Jan 2019 #69
+1 Power 2 the People Jan 2019 #74
NOT ... well said, no one has the position Sanders said they have. That's a key element of a strawma uponit7771 Jan 2019 #157
That's obvious....... Glamrock Jan 2019 #82
"..grudge against Bernie.. " strawman. BS is being called out Cha Jan 2019 #153
What he's saying.. is Not true Cha Jan 2019 #152
Strawman noted, Sanders proffered a fallacious argument against his "opponents" seeing NO ONE uponit7771 Jan 2019 #155
+1! Cha Jan 2019 #237
"He is just saying what they believe in" WeekiWater Jan 2019 #187
Bernie is such an awesome candidate that a poster on DU has to explain what he meant to say CreekDog Jan 2019 #219
Yeah.. too much of that. Cha Jan 2019 #242
Sanders sees everything from his white perch in Vermont Apollyonus Jan 2019 #266
+1, thinking he has to turn in full tax returns so he's not going to run uponit7771 Jan 2019 #274
So he's back to railing against "identity politics?" mcar Jan 2019 #25
more than that. railing against "identity politics" by engaging in "identity politics" still_one Jan 2019 #38
It was always so mcar Jan 2019 #45
Grandpa needs a nap. nycbos Jan 2019 #26
He needs more than that. Apollyonus Jan 2019 #267
Bernie go home to Vermont and RETIRE! redstatebluegirl Jan 2019 #27
wow, that's pretty fucked up right there 0rganism Jan 2019 #30
Yikes... Mike Nelson Jan 2019 #31
I get the feeling from some people that they are not looking for the best candidate Renew Deal Jan 2019 #33
Sandewrs is correct. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #35
and that is true, except based on the OP's implication he is insulting those who are supporting still_one Jan 2019 #39
Yes! And, it's not really correct because No One Cha Jan 2019 #43
yes, it is a strawman argument still_one Jan 2019 #54
That is one way to interpret it. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #223
Which is why when political leaders speak they need to be careful so there is no still_one Jan 2019 #224
Said NO ONE EVER. Cha Jan 2019 #40
Exactly right, Cha. Sen. Sanders should identify exactly who has made the claims spooky3 Jan 2019 #279
Yeah, why you so vague, BS? Tell us exactly Cha Jan 2019 #280
The more he talks, the clearer the picture becomes. spooky3 Jan 2019 #281
This is false on its face, none of his opponents want that. Sanders is needlessly proffering fallacy uponit7771 Jan 2019 #47
The gop have been repeating his frame. Thanks bern! Kahuna7 Jan 2019 #51
The gop are notorious for using a similar argument to justify that undocumented people are voting still_one Jan 2019 #55
Because of course it is.. It's false and insulting. Cha Jan 2019 #57
Well, it's not needless. Bernie needs to make this argument. yardwork Jan 2019 #66
+1 uponit7771 Jan 2019 #158
Who ever said that? mcar Jan 2019 #48
Who has ever said that? It's a straw man fallacy. yardwork Jan 2019 #63
Where he is incorrect is his implication that a significant # of progressives choose candidates pnwmom Jan 2019 #248
I agree with your excellent point. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #250
.... Apollyonus Jan 2019 #268
What opponents? NastyRiffraff Jan 2019 #44
Unsurprising. Once an asshole, always... NNadir Jan 2019 #52
lol n/t Apollyonus Jan 2019 #269
This message was self-deleted by its author RandySF Jan 2019 #58
Same old, same old. Didn't really expect him to evolve now, did you? nt Fla Dem Jan 2019 #59
Bernie. LOL...nt SidDithers Jan 2019 #60
Deeply offensive. yardwork Jan 2019 #61
Bernie just needs to stay in Senate. Lonestarblue Jan 2019 #64
First of all. Just ONE big "identity politics": Fox telling white ppl to hate minorities. sharedvalues Jan 2019 #65
His delegates booed John Lewis on the stage at our last convention. GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #68
I was there Gothmog Jan 2019 #175
Every member of the Democratic Party needs to hear this anecdote. GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #185
There were some really mad Clinton workers at the convention Gothmog Jan 2019 #212
I am a private facebook page for Clinton National delegates Gothmog Jan 2019 #238
That was disgusting Apollyonus Jan 2019 #271
Yep. Check out the ongoing thread about math showing how BS could win. GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #272
And welcome to DU. GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #273
Yes of course nini Jan 2019 #70
To give him maximum charity I do think positions and issues are important... D23MIURG23 Jan 2019 #73
Don't forget the most important. She's a member of the Democratic Party. GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #104
There is that. calimary Jan 2019 #156
Yes, but she's a Wall Street tool MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #258
He didn't seem to mind when the preferred identity was what he is...a white male. Honeycombe8 Jan 2019 #75
I may be reading this wrong, but to me this sounds like that long-standing complaint: Chemisse Jan 2019 #76
Translation: RandySF Jan 2019 #77
Post removed Post removed Jan 2019 #78
lol Apollyonus Jan 2019 #84
+1 violetpastille Jan 2019 #107
Old guy yelling at clouds. MontanaMama Jan 2019 #79
Bernie... (heavy sigh) NotHardly Jan 2019 #80
Or even just listen. He seems to be most at home behind a podium ehrnst Jan 2019 #208
Or not talk and not run .. ever again n/t Apollyonus Jan 2019 #270
In Sanders' world Apollyonus Jan 2019 #83
Your missing the largest Irony... GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #106
Sir, my post was clear. Twisting it won't help. Apollyonus Jan 2019 #110
Oh, you miss understand my meaning. GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #120
No worries Apollyonus Jan 2019 #121
Agreed. Born in Detroit, raised in Georgia MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #259
It is a one-size-fits-all classic Marxist procrustean bed of a policy. While a raise would be nice Hekate Jan 2019 #145
+1 Woot woot! nt Kahuna7 Jan 2019 #168
+1 betsuni Jan 2019 #172
It's going to be a fun primary season, as always IronLionZion Jan 2019 #85
So Democrats are his "enemies" now? Wounded Bear Jan 2019 #86
Not just now. we can do it Jan 2019 #197
Oh no...Sanders takes a position that he's never hidden, that actual policies matter...that issues JCanete Jan 2019 #87
If you don't see how deeply insulting Bernie's assumption is, then you never will. yardwork Jan 2019 #92
Well some people don't think we can tell the difference. MrsCoffee Jan 2019 #99
I don't trust you on that. The numbers don't bear it out. I trust that you believe it. nt JCanete Jan 2019 #102
I trust her.. she knows what she's talking about. Cha Jan 2019 #150
Sort of like when a polician you like gets fact checked.... ehrnst Jan 2019 #182
"promoting the same old shit underneath diverse packaging" betsuni Jan 2019 #94
Anything and anyone who isn't Bernie. MrsCoffee Jan 2019 #101
You got one thing right. He's never hidden his position on race and gender. kcr Jan 2019 #103
pointing what out exactly? nt JCanete Jan 2019 #105
His words. betsuni Jan 2019 #144
How can you possibly think that Sanders "is actually liked most by people of color and women?" George II Jan 2019 #122
https://www.vox.com/2018/12/19/18148681/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-approval-rating. That's one. JCanete Jan 2019 #124
From the article: "These early polling results are of limited ultimate relevance" George II Jan 2019 #127
Do you? nt JCanete Jan 2019 #129
No, I'm not the one making the claim, you are. George II Jan 2019 #130
oh fuck George...please review the context of my post and then reply about who's making what claims. JCanete Jan 2019 #135
You made a statement, I disputed it, showing a disclaimer in YOUR article, asking... George II Jan 2019 #173
That fallacy is called "prove a negative." ehrnst Jan 2019 #186
I'll take that as a NO. Cha Jan 2019 #149
BS is falsely accusing Dems of "want"ing something that's entirely untrue Cha Jan 2019 #133
I read it to mean "only Bernie stands for the correct things" comradebillyboy Jan 2019 #261
Which of course is Cha Jan 2019 #262
Indeed it is. comradebillyboy Jan 2019 #263
"same old shit underneath diverse packaging" ehrnst Jan 2019 #178
Maybe we should all go in together MontanaMama Jan 2019 #89
Oh Ouch, Burn! Cha Jan 2019 #97
Lol!! MontanaMama Jan 2019 #100
.. George II Jan 2019 #131
LOL! I'm in! calimary Jan 2019 #159
WHY are his "opponents" ALWAYS DEMOCRATS and never the GOP?! Hekate Jan 2019 #108
Indeed. Vermont isn't exactly a hotbed of diversity. ehrnst Jan 2019 #180
I think Bernie has lost it. Scruffy1 Jan 2019 #109
Talk like this is what made his delegates feel OK booing John Lewis at our last convention GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #111
+1000 yardwork Jan 2019 #116
Yes. Unforgivable. honest.abe Jan 2019 #125
Post removed Post removed Jan 2019 #128
When he said that tonight they would be nominating a woman, they yelled "She stole it" at Lewis. betsuni Jan 2019 #134
okay, meaning what to you? nt JCanete Jan 2019 #137
That they are very rude and noisy conspiracy theory nuts. betsuni Jan 2019 #138
er...yeah, that's a whole lot of lumping together you've got going on there. I bet I could JCanete Jan 2019 #139
Conspiracy theories about John Lewis lying and Hillary stealing elections are nutty. betsuni Jan 2019 #140
when you agree on shit like Hillary Stealing the election and booing John Lewis that pretty much JI7 Jan 2019 #141
+1! Cha Jan 2019 #147
agreed Gothmog Jan 2019 #213
#Whataboutism!! Not Working. Cha Jan 2019 #146
DEFINITELY not working. calimary Jan 2019 #161
Congressman John Lewis is a national treasure Gothmog Jan 2019 #176
"that's a whole lot of lumping together you've got going on there." WeekiWater Jan 2019 #188
Edited herding cats Jan 2019 #142
Thanks for that. Cha Jan 2019 #233
Yes, it is absolutely unforivable. Cha Jan 2019 #132
That was a colossal disgrace. A genuine sin. SHAME on them. calimary Jan 2019 #160
+1 betsuni Jan 2019 #165
Senator Sanders, did it ever dawn on you that the VOTERS want "yadda yadda".... George II Jan 2019 #112
To be fair, most voters are his opponents. yardwork Jan 2019 #115
Bazinga! George II Jan 2019 #117
Grin. yardwork Jan 2019 #118
i echo what everyone else has said in this thread. no thank you bernie. trueblue2007 Jan 2019 #114
Stupid comment. No real Democrat thinks like that. honest.abe Jan 2019 #123
But TheFarseer Jan 2019 #126
BS is falsely accusing Dems of "want"ing something that's entirely untrue Cha Jan 2019 #136
Yep. The blind spot is still there blind as ever. Caliman73 Jan 2019 #143
Excellent post, Caliman73. calimary Jan 2019 #162
Excellent and comprehensive. Thank you. nt Hekate Jan 2019 #163
"People of color aren't voting for people based solely on their gender or racial background. That.. Cha Jan 2019 #164
Bernie always has to have some excuse for why he didn't win. With him Kahuna7 Jan 2019 #166
Aloha, Kahuna! Cha Jan 2019 #167
Hey Baby! You're the only one who seems to remember me... Kahuna7 Jan 2019 #169
And that thinking on Bernie's part defines white male privilege. yardwork Jan 2019 #171
+1000. (nt) ehrnst Jan 2019 #184
+1 uponit7771 Jan 2019 #275
ANYONE who labels Democrats as their "opponents" can just Fuck Off Maru Kitteh Jan 2019 #148
Exactly we can do it Jan 2019 #199
white skin is such a burden to carry!! boston bean Jan 2019 #170
Not helping, Bernie. (nt) ehrnst Jan 2019 #177
Actually I think I agree. If Bernie was female or a minority I think he would be more accepted. Joe941 Jan 2019 #179
Your contribution is duly noted Hekate Jan 2019 #181
Ah yes. White men are being oppressed more than anyone, so I hear. ehrnst Jan 2019 #183
Racism (and other isms) in all forms has to stop - it tears our country apart. Joe941 Jan 2019 #198
My response was concerning your statements to the effect ehrnst Jan 2019 #204
Exactly, ehrnst.. Thank You! Cha Jan 2019 #229
Exhausting explaining the obvious, isn't it? ehrnst Jan 2019 #230
Don't I know it! Cha Jan 2019 #231
Yeah, your average joe over at JPR would be all over this. MrsCoffee Jan 2019 #253
Yeah, women and minorities going around yelling at walls are a big hit. NT WeekiWater Jan 2019 #193
Wow. A beautiful demonstration of white male privilege. athena Jan 2019 #195
+1000 EffieBlack Jan 2019 #201
Beautifully stated! athena Jan 2019 #203
Please leave, Bernie. Paladin Jan 2019 #210
Yes. Being a white man in America is such a burden EffieBlack Jan 2019 #196
I didn't say that. Please don't put words in my mouth. Joe941 Jan 2019 #200
That's exactly what you said. EffieBlack Jan 2019 #202
I said nothing about life in America. Joe941 Jan 2019 #207
Your exact words: "If Bernie was female or a minority I think he would be more accepted." ehrnst Jan 2019 #205
We DO.. BS is Wrong. Cha Jan 2019 #227
That is Straight UP Bulloney. Cha Jan 2019 #236
By whom?!?!?! uponit7771 Jan 2019 #276
Sick and tired of this man🤮 we can do it Jan 2019 #189
I see three years later Bernie is still following the same bankrupt strategy Blue_Tires Jan 2019 #191
His privilege is showing. NT WeekiWater Jan 2019 #194
Common wisdom on DU states that Bernie does not appeal to minorities. We will see. redgreenandblue Jan 2019 #206
"We will see"? EffieBlack Jan 2019 #211
Not really. On DU we have seen, for sure. In the real world not so much. redgreenandblue Jan 2019 #214
Ok EffieBlack Jan 2019 #215
This gives me some hope for our future. jalan48 Jan 2019 #216
Because of the Mueller investigation, we know things now that were were not known then ehrnst Jan 2019 #217
You "feel" that he's popular with minority demographics ehrnst Jan 2019 #220
Good statistics are pretty hard to come by currently. redgreenandblue Jan 2019 #221
So, it's your "feeling," but you expect it to carry the weight of fact in this discussion. ehrnst Jan 2019 #222
It's on Twitter, too.. that BS does not Cha Jan 2019 #239
The Blue Wave certainly surprised him. betsuni Jan 2019 #240
Sure did. Curious what are his Cha Jan 2019 #241
That's for sure! betsuni Jan 2019 #244
The Blue Wave didn't validate his claims that the Democratic Party ehrnst Jan 2019 #247
He's hard of listening. betsuni Jan 2019 #249
Just read this. Great response. I will remember it. GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #283
kick Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2019 #243
No, Senator Sanders peggysue2 Jan 2019 #245
Diversity in representation leads to better public policies. If Bernie can't see that it's time TeamPooka Jan 2019 #246
Sanders is providing ample fuel for bothsiderists. stopbush Jan 2019 #251
I just heard Kamala Harris on Rachel Show say that her mother told her that if you seen something MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #252
Of course they are. Thank you for Cha Jan 2019 #255
Welcome, Cha MaryMagdaline Jan 2019 #256
Aloha, Mary! Cha Jan 2019 #260
... Scurrilous Jan 2019 #254
.. Cha Jan 2019 #264
... Scurrilous Jan 2019 #265
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." Maya Angelou spooky3 Jan 2019 #277
It's being carried along on Twitter RandySF Jan 2019 #278
yeah, I don't need him explained.. Cha Jan 2019 #282
Typical. Claim everything's about policy while making it about everything except policy. betsuni Jan 2019 #284
I agree Catch2.2 Mar 2019 #285
This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Mar 2019 #286

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
5. tone deaf
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:29 PM
Jan 2019

he just doesn't get it. He's not going to win the nomination if he cannot inspire minority voters and women to come vote for him, and this ain't the way to do it. He doesn't know how to work with others or even frame his message in a way that he apparently doesn't view as some sort of impermissible compromise.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,552 posts)
13. wish I could answer, but all I got is ...
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:50 PM
Jan 2019








(From a little red acetate square included with the album -- the tracks the publisher refused to put on the LP).

Cha

(298,035 posts)
28. It's perfect.. you're right
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:15 PM
Jan 2019

the "time warp" was dead on.

I don't think he has a clue what his "opponents" want..

After the 2016 election, Sanders hit a similar theme when he told a crowd of supporters “It’s not good enough for somebody to say ‘hey I’m a Latina vote for me’ that is not good enough,” and went on to add “It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.'”

That nobody said EVER!

And, what's up with Michael Avenatti's quote?..

Fact Check: The only arguable “opponent” of Sanders who has said anything like this is Stormy Daniels attorney Michael Avenatti, who told Time Magazine that the 2020 Democratic nominee “better be a white male” because “When you have a white male making the arguments, they carry more weight.”

More complete tone deafness.

betsuni

(25,801 posts)
36. Bernie, 2018: "I had no idea hundreds of thousands of Americans, particularly African-Americans,
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:30 PM
Jan 2019

were being held in jail for months or years, even though they've never been convicted of a crime, simply because they can't afford bail." This was LAST YEAR. "I really didn't know this was happening."

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
209. The implication that female candidates say, "I am a woman, that's enough to vote for me"
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:54 PM
Jan 2019

or "I'm a latina, that's enough to vote for me," is insulting.

And it was when he ran against a female opponent for Vermont Governor, and said it in reference to her.

He lost, but didn't seem to learn a lesson about that sort of campaigning.

 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
10. I do not understand how he would think this would be a good thing to say if he is attempting to gain
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:34 PM
Jan 2019

the Democratic nomination. Oh brother.

Cha

(298,035 posts)
14. I'm glad he did so we know
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:52 PM
Jan 2019

exactly what he's thinking.

And, what's with that "opponents"? Is this his declaration that he's running again?

betsuni

(25,801 posts)
42. It's odd because the interview was last year before anyone declared.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:53 PM
Jan 2019

Usually opponents are in the opposition party. I wonder who he's thinking of.

Cha

(298,035 posts)
56. Thanks, I didn't see
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:13 PM
Jan 2019

the date. Good find!

BS is insulting the Dems with his false premise.. it's not true no matter how many times he goes there.

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

betsuni

(25,801 posts)
67. We're all so hopelessly stupid that we can't tell qualified from unqualified candidates.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:26 PM
Jan 2019

The vaginas and exciting skin colors distract us. Thanks, Bernie!

Cha

(298,035 posts)
81. This is his biggest Insult of all.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:00 PM
Jan 2019

lol.. yes we're Soooooooooo DISTRACTED!

Most of us DEMS want someone who is qualified and can beat trump. I don't care what color they are or gender.

And, he knows this.

grr

betsuni

(25,801 posts)
91. He still thinks we voted for Obama because he was the charismatic cool black guy and Hillary
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:24 PM
Jan 2019

because she's a woman. In his mind both of them are corrupt elitists so otherwise why would we vote for them, so I guess it makes sense if you're Bernie. But if he tries it this time... At least everyone knows exactly what's coming.

Cha

(298,035 posts)
96. his loss.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:36 PM
Jan 2019

I'lll take what President Obama and Hillary Actually Accomplished for our Country and the Planet over words any day.

radius777

(3,635 posts)
235. Exactly, that's it in a nutshell.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:00 PM
Jan 2019

They don't understand that most Democratic voters are center-left pragmatists who vote accordingly... the success of Clintonism wasn't a DLC conspiracy, but a realignment within the Dem party, that now gets most of its voters from diverse metropolitan areas across the country.

dsc

(52,173 posts)
11. and people wonder why he can't make inroads with minority voters
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:36 PM
Jan 2019

this statement is tone deaf period.

pnwmom

(109,024 posts)
15. And THIS is supposed to encourage women and minorities to take another look at him?
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:55 PM
Jan 2019

By insulting them?

He says "many" of his opponents just want a minority or woman "regardless of what they stand for." He couldn't be more wrong. If that were the case, we'd all be supporting Ben Carson and Condeleeza Rice and Nikki Haley.

When is Bernie ever going to learn? I think the answer is never.

LisaM

(27,850 posts)
29. Same here.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:15 PM
Jan 2019

His appeal is completely lost on me. I just see an angry person, who disrupted the convention, and ended up getting a lot of what he said he wanted - no TPP, undoing NAFTA, and, if some quotes I read not too long ago are correct, getting out of NATO or at least having a weakened NATO.

The spectacle of two angry white men inciting people at rallies in the summer of 2016 is going to stick with me for a long time.

Response to LisaM (Reply #29)

 

MrGrieves

(315 posts)
174. Same here.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:24 AM
Jan 2019

I have friends and family that have gotten upset over the things I called out about him. They just won't see it.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
18. Geez, even going to public school and university in the Deep South,
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:59 PM
Jan 2019

I learned that legal racism and misogyny, like we had here is at its heart about economics. Even during the great migration while blacks found factory jobs they got the shittist, lowest paid work. Look at the actions recently in the GM plant in Ohio.

The southern white progressives who loved FDRs programs until they were expanded to people of color by LBJ proved that. They kept FDR from expanding them to the minority population.

That is one reason he will never win southern primaries.

I certainly do not think BS personally feels this way, but language like that above stirs up memories.

Very tone deaf. The base of the party in my state are African American females.

calimary

(81,597 posts)
154. And even that is an unfortunate state of affairs.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:19 AM
Jan 2019

Go AWAY, Bernie. You've done more than enough damage.

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
21. I think he's sore because the other 2020 potential candidates have
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:05 PM
Jan 2019

been throwing serious shade and specifically attacking the "identity politics" frame.

Renew Deal

(81,898 posts)
34. He's the type that believes that good policy raises everyone
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:28 PM
Jan 2019

Rather than some people being at a disadvantage (other than economic, he believes that too).

Cha

(298,035 posts)
151. Well he's not being straight up here..
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:51 AM
Jan 2019
Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

That's not true.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
192. You know what else isn't true?
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:05 PM
Jan 2019

You know what else isn't true? It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "ideologically bankrupt". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "corrupt". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is "the party of the one-percent". It's NOT TRUE that there's "no difference between Democrats and Republicans." It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "do-nothings". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party "doesn't care about climate change."

It serves no good purpose for anyone to say these types of things that falsely put Democrats and the Democratic party in a negative light.

All I'm saying is that when anyone smears and denigrates the Democratic party, it only serves to divide and weaken us... and a weakened Democratic party benefits the GOP, and Trump, and Russia.

, Cha! Aloha!

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
218. so we'll just raise everyone up
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:32 PM
Jan 2019

and minority folks and women will have more, but still be at the bottom.

pass.

droidamus2

(1,699 posts)
69. Yes
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:29 PM
Jan 2019

Yes you are. Bernie is not saying in any way that he is against women, blacks, latinos, etc. He is just saying what they believe in and the kinds of policies they will push for are more important. Personally all things being equal as far as a candidate pushing for progressive programs the fact that they are a minority or a woman might be a deciding factor. On the otherhand if the candidate was a very conservative Democrat I would not vote for her just because she was a woman. Bernie is not saying that their race or sex is not important he is just saying that he believes policy and what you are willing to fight for should come first.

uponit7771

(90,371 posts)
157. NOT ... well said, no one has the position Sanders said they have. That's a key element of a strawma
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:24 AM
Jan 2019

... strawman fallacy.

Glamrock

(11,803 posts)
82. That's obvious.......
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:03 PM
Jan 2019

Unless of course, you have a grudge against Bernie. Hell, a good number of people here who are currently bashing the man for this statement are the same people who, two weeks ago were responding in kind to multiple posts about how "it's time for a woman goddamnit!" The irony is astounding.

Cha

(298,035 posts)
153. "..grudge against Bernie.. " strawman. BS is being called out
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:12 AM
Jan 2019

on his own words.. and they're not true

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

And, who the hell are his "opponents", anyway? The Democratic Party?

Most Dems/Democratic Base/Dem leaders want someone who is qualified and can beat trump.. and sure we got a lot of Democratic Women in Congress swept in the Blue Wave. They were the most qualified for the job.





Cha

(298,035 posts)
152. What he's saying.. is Not true
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:01 AM
Jan 2019
Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

Nobody thinks that and BS is trying to get people to believe that.

uponit7771

(90,371 posts)
155. Strawman noted, Sanders proffered a fallacious argument against his "opponents" seeing NO ONE
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:23 AM
Jan 2019

... that he's running against takes the position he stated in the OP.

Yaws strawman defenses of Sanders is more telling than his own statements

 

WeekiWater

(3,259 posts)
187. "He is just saying what they believe in"
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:01 PM
Jan 2019

That is not exactly accurate. He is stating what he believes they believe in. He is lumping large groups together and making claims about them as a way to lash out and stay relevant.

 

Apollyonus

(812 posts)
266. Sanders sees everything from his white perch in Vermont
Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:17 PM
Jan 2019

with skewing prisms.

I thought he would learn in 2 years that social justice is not the same as economic justice.

But you know what they say about dogs and learning tricks.

0rganism

(23,991 posts)
30. wow, that's pretty fucked up right there
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:20 PM
Jan 2019

i guess Bernie's kind of like one of those expensivee aged cheeses - if it has what you want for a specific recipe, nothing else will do, but taken on its own it smells like mildew and/or dirty socks, and you probably don't want it in your fridge for long.

but honestly, i'd take a hunk of Limburger as president over what we have now.

Mike Nelson

(9,984 posts)
31. Yikes...
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:23 PM
Jan 2019

… how can someone who had so many relatable things to say spout out this stuff? Is it an excerpt of some grander idea? In any case, he should stop complaining about how others make appeals re: diversity and tell voters how he - not others - is going to be the candidate for diversity.

Renew Deal

(81,898 posts)
33. I get the feeling from some people that they are not looking for the best candidate
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:26 PM
Jan 2019

But the candidate that checks the right boxes

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
35. Sandewrs is correct.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:29 PM
Jan 2019
After the 2016 election, Sanders hit a similar theme when he told a crowd of supporters “It’s not good enough for somebody to say ‘hey I’m a Latina vote for me’ that is not good enough,” and went on to add “It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.'”


What matter is the positions.

still_one

(92,509 posts)
39. and that is true, except based on the OP's implication he is insulting those who are supporting
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:50 PM
Jan 2019

women, minorities, etc. by assuming they don't look at the issues, they only look at the gender, color, etc. Not only is that bullshit, it is playing "identity politics" itself.





Cha

(298,035 posts)
43. Yes! And, it's not really correct because No One
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:54 PM
Jan 2019

said that EVER.

he's set up a false premise.

Thank You!

still_one

(92,509 posts)
224. Which is why when political leaders speak they need to be careful so there is no
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 05:45 PM
Jan 2019

ambiguity in what they say

spooky3

(34,527 posts)
279. Exactly right, Cha. Sen. Sanders should identify exactly who has made the claims
Sun Jan 27, 2019, 11:34 PM
Jan 2019

as he stated them. I have not heard anyone say anything like that.

Cha

(298,035 posts)
280. Yeah, why you so vague, BS? Tell us exactly
Sun Jan 27, 2019, 11:57 PM
Jan 2019

and specifically who you're trying to marginalize.. or is it everybody?!

Spooky

uponit7771

(90,371 posts)
47. This is false on its face, none of his opponents want that. Sanders is needlessly proffering fallacy
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:55 PM
Jan 2019

still_one

(92,509 posts)
55. The gop are notorious for using a similar argument to justify that undocumented people are voting
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:09 PM
Jan 2019

en mass, to suppress voting, when the facts don't support it

yardwork

(61,785 posts)
66. Well, it's not needless. Bernie needs to make this argument.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:22 PM
Jan 2019

Many of us have some ideas about why Bernie feels the need to promote this blatantly false smear over and over again.

Obviously, it fills some need in Bernie. I'm trying to think what it might be....

yardwork

(61,785 posts)
63. Who has ever said that? It's a straw man fallacy.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:18 PM
Jan 2019

I have never heard a single candidate say anything like that.

pnwmom

(109,024 posts)
248. Where he is incorrect is his implication that a significant # of progressives choose candidates
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 07:47 AM
Jan 2019

based on their race, rather than their positions. I didn't see any Democrats or progressives urging a vote for Nikki Haley or Ben Carson because of their race.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
250. I agree with your excellent point.
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 01:20 PM
Jan 2019

As to Sanders necessarily implying that, I disagree, but I think that he focuses on economics without realizing how race and gender based conservative politics is.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
44. What opponents?
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 09:55 PM
Jan 2019
Many of my opponents do not hold that view, and they think that all that we need is people who are candidates who are black or white, who are black or Latino or woman or gay, regardless of what they stand for, that the end result is diversity.”


Democrats? Or primary opponents? I didn't think he'd declared.

NNadir

(33,586 posts)
52. Unsurprising. Once an asshole, always...
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:02 PM
Jan 2019

...an asshole.

I'm an old white man like him, and the last thing I want in the world is for him as a Presidential candidate, and no, it's not because he's old and white.

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Lonestarblue

(10,159 posts)
64. Bernie just needs to stay in Senate.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:19 PM
Jan 2019

I really hope he does not decide to launch an independent candidacy for president. He would just split the vote and ensure a Trump election (unless he’s in jail in which case it would be a Pence election) with no chance of actually winning. I’m so tired of spoilers and the people who think a protest vote is worth it, even knowing their candidte has no chance of winning and they would end up with the worst candidate winning.

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
65. First of all. Just ONE big "identity politics": Fox telling white ppl to hate minorities.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:22 PM
Jan 2019

No democrat should be using “identity politics” except to attack the GOP



... and I like Bernie (Though not for 2020)

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
68. His delegates booed John Lewis on the stage at our last convention.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:27 PM
Jan 2019

Booed perhaps the greatest living American. Cause he was not on their team.

That told me all I needed to know.

Gothmog

(145,894 posts)
175. I was there
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:17 AM
Jan 2019

My whip warned me of this stunt about 20 to 30 minutes in advance. The Clinton campaign had a good whipping infrastructure in place and knew that the sanders delegates were planning to boo Congressman John Lewis well in advance. My whip later told me that sanders was asked to stop this stunt and declined

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
185. Every member of the Democratic Party needs to hear this anecdote.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:58 AM
Jan 2019

I hope it gets made into campaign ads in the event he runs.

Gothmog

(145,894 posts)
238. I am a private facebook page for Clinton National delegates
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 12:36 AM
Jan 2019

There were some fun posts on that page tonight. There are some really mad Clinton types who have not forgotten and will not forgive.

 

Apollyonus

(812 posts)
271. That was disgusting
Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:23 PM
Jan 2019

Sanders NEVER called his supporters out and never punished them either. He was in it with them it seemed like.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
272. Yep. Check out the ongoing thread about math showing how BS could win.
Sun Jan 27, 2019, 10:26 PM
Jan 2019

I just had a BS supporter justify booing John Lewis not 5 minutes ago.

I could not believe it. My response may put me at risk. Oh well.

nini

(16,672 posts)
70. Yes of course
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:31 PM
Jan 2019

If we want leaders to truly represent diversity then we must not be smart enough to make sure they're also qualified.

I cannot roll my eyes enough with this guy.

D23MIURG23

(2,851 posts)
73. To give him maximum charity I do think positions and issues are important...
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:36 PM
Jan 2019

But given the candidates who have already announced, I think this is a pretty blatant false dichotomy.

Maybe Bernie is stressed because Warren is running on similar positions to his, and he doesn't have any obvious advantage against her. She is younger, most likely has more goodwill from party elites, and she could be our first woman president.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
75. He didn't seem to mind when the preferred identity was what he is...a white male.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:40 PM
Jan 2019

I do agree that some in the Democratic Party are pushing identity politics for its sake alone. People pushing this one or that one because of the identity, without even knowing the person's specific stance on a wide variety of issues (we all assume any Dem. candidate follows the Dem. Party Platform). But I don't know who he means by opponents. The people I've heard are just people in the public...no one that Bernie would know.

I don't think this is a big issue. I hope it doesn't turn out to be.

Republicans thought Obama won because he was part Af. American. Some people in the Dem. Party thought so, too. But I don't think so. That's not why I voted for him. He won because he was, well, Obama. An exceptional, charismatic, brilliant politician who seemed very capable of being the leader of the free world. That he was half Af. American was a perk, in my view.

I still view things the same way. I'm waiting for an exceptional, charismatic, brilliant politician who seems capable of being the leader of the free world, whatever the identity of that person is. It would be great if it could be a woman or minority. I tend to believe it hasn't been before now, because of "identity" politics that said it had to be a white male. It's impossible that there was no charismatic, exceptional female politician before now who could have been elected, but for prejudice against her identity.

Chemisse

(30,824 posts)
76. I may be reading this wrong, but to me this sounds like that long-standing complaint:
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:42 PM
Jan 2019

'This just isn't fair to us white guys.'

Perhaps that is an uncharitable take on it, but it's the first thing that popped into my mind.

RandySF

(59,756 posts)
77. Translation:
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:47 PM
Jan 2019

Support me unless you want engage in “identity politics”. I heard this crap during Sharice Davids’s primary.

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
208. Or even just listen. He seems to be most at home behind a podium
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:51 PM
Jan 2019

declaiming, and wagging his finger.

I requires no actual interaction, reciprocity or teamwork.

I believe he feels that he is the smartest person in any room, and therefore doesn't feel any need to learn from anyone else.

Many people that agree with his ideas think that this is a strength.

 

Apollyonus

(812 posts)
83. In Sanders' world
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:04 PM
Jan 2019

no injustice exists except economic injustice.

He thinks that racism, homophobia, misogyny, xenophobia would all go away if everyone made a decent living.

It is a classic view of someone who is raised and has lived in completely white surroundings.

This view is anathema to the Democratic party's core beliefs and its core supporters.

He is better off not running ever again or go for intensive political rehab before he runs.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
106. Your missing the largest Irony...
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:04 AM
Jan 2019

Racism and misogyny are based in large part on keeping an economic underclass.

Any study of the new deal makes it glaring obvious that southern whites loved government programs as long as they were for whites.

You cannot attack economic injustice without also attacking racial injustice. They are 2 peas in a pod.

He just can’t seem to understand this. But being from Vermont I am not surprised.

Grow up in Louisiana and Arkansas like I did and it is obvious.

The most disgusting thing Sessions ever let out was his reason for opposing immigration and cutting social benefits. He wanted to force blacks back into the fields doing ‘honest work’.

The reason we pay teachers and nurses shit wages is that we got used to forcing smart women into those fields and then steals their labor by denying them other professional opportunities and pay based on their abilities. And still resist paying those professions what they deserve.

They don’t exactly hide this shit.







 

Apollyonus

(812 posts)
110. Sir, my post was clear. Twisting it won't help.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:13 AM
Jan 2019

Senator Sanders has a long way to go to becoming a real Democrat and recognize the racism, misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia.

It is not all about money.

Extremely successful African Americans, LGBTQ, women and non-white ethnic minorities are still treated as second class citizens in this country. They already have money. Some are 1 percenters -- but the social injustice is still there and it. does. not. go. away.

Blaming Southern Whites of the past is not an excuse for Northern Whites of the present. Even when said person is (wrongly) seen as a messiah by some in these parts.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
120. Oh, you miss understand my meaning.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:26 AM
Jan 2019

I agree with your post. But even in the north during the great migration while black Americans were given factory jobs they were paid less and given the shittiest jobs.

I readily admit that many if not most racist do not consider the economics of their beliefs. But let a black man do better than them and their racism goes into hyperdrive. That explains the reaction to President Obama. They still consider him illegitimate.

Because in their minds black men and women should never have more than any white man. Or woman.

Granted, being from the South where legally enforced racism was obviously about economics may cloud my judgment. But the largest racial massacres after Jim Crow like Tulsa, Ocoee and Rosewood were often set off because African Americans were gaining more wealth than some of their white neighbors.

Nuanced discussions like this is where communication is typed online comes up short. Were we sitting next to each other in a bar we would have no problem reaching consensus.

Have a nice evening.

MaryMagdaline

(6,859 posts)
259. Agreed. Born in Detroit, raised in Georgia
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 05:30 PM
Jan 2019

Jealously of black success is a major factor in racial discrimination and in the violence instigated against them

And it’s not a secret when a racist president shuts down government, he is hoping to hurt black people with good jobs who don’t vote for him.

It’s not just a Southern thing. White people in Detroit say things that Southerners would blush to say or even think.

Hekate

(91,006 posts)
145. It is a one-size-fits-all classic Marxist procrustean bed of a policy. While a raise would be nice
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:14 AM
Jan 2019

...or, would have been nice back in the day before retirement -- it would not have solved the essential wage disparity between "male" and "female" jobs. It would not solve gender discrimination or racial discrimination or all those issues we tried so hard to resolve with Affirmative Action.

Bernie and his ilk like to boast that they are blind to race and gender because they believe that makes them fairer than the rest of us. But at my age, I now believe it just makes them ...blind.

IronLionZion

(45,637 posts)
85. It's going to be a fun primary season, as always
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:13 PM
Jan 2019

but thankfully this time it will be very diverse with more women and minorities.

Sanders is obviously targeting the rust belt white voters who shifted to Trump. It doesn't hurt to have him out there campaigning in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, etc. to pick off enough Trump votes to make a difference. He won't do as well in the more diverse states. I doubt he would be our nominee.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
87. Oh no...Sanders takes a position that he's never hidden, that actual policies matter...that issues
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:18 PM
Jan 2019

of class cannot be ignored in favor of promoting the same old shit underneath diverse packaging, and we are supposed to take umbrage? The very Sanders who is actually liked most by people of color and women and least among all demographics, by white men, is suddenly being revealed here when he says what he's already said numerous times in the past, as what might I ask? and to who?

yardwork

(61,785 posts)
92. If you don't see how deeply insulting Bernie's assumption is, then you never will.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:24 PM
Jan 2019

I recognize that we all process things in our own way. Trust me when I tell you that the vast majority of women and people of color are deeply offended by Bernie's blithe assumption that we're voting for people just because they're women or people of color.

It's offensive.

MrsCoffee

(5,803 posts)
99. Well some people don't think we can tell the difference.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:42 PM
Jan 2019

You know they have to bring up Susan Collins, Clarence Thomas and Herman Caine....

Not that anyone right here in this thread has ever done so or anything.



 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
182. Sort of like when a polician you like gets fact checked....
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:54 AM
Jan 2019

and you believe them even when the numbers don't bear it out?

betsuni

(25,801 posts)
94. "promoting the same old shit underneath diverse packaging"
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:32 PM
Jan 2019

What do you mean and who is doing it?

kcr

(15,326 posts)
103. You got one thing right. He's never hidden his position on race and gender.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:53 PM
Jan 2019

Plenty of us were pointing it out in 2016.

betsuni

(25,801 posts)
144. His words.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:06 AM
Jan 2019

An example is in the OP: "It's not enough for somebody to say, 'Hey, I'm a Latina, vote for me'" and "It is not good enough for somebody to say 'I'm a woman, vote for me.'"

George II

(67,782 posts)
122. How can you possibly think that Sanders "is actually liked most by people of color and women?"
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:33 AM
Jan 2019

On what do you base that conclusion? The only general election evidence we have and he has is in a state that has less than 5% people of color, statistically impossible to draw a conclusion on how he is "liked" by people of color, much less "most".

George II

(67,782 posts)
127. From the article: "These early polling results are of limited ultimate relevance"
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:59 AM
Jan 2019

Do you have a poll that has ultimate relevance?

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
135. oh fuck George...please review the context of my post and then reply about who's making what claims.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:32 AM
Jan 2019

I at least, have some evidence to point to that contradicts the other claim, which, apparently, has no such evidence to back it up.

George II

(67,782 posts)
173. You made a statement, I disputed it, showing a disclaimer in YOUR article, asking...
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:21 AM
Jan 2019

....if you have a poll with more relevance. So then YOU ask ME if I have one? Of course I don't have one, why would I?

Yes, you're right JCanete, context is important.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
186. That fallacy is called "prove a negative."
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:59 AM
Jan 2019

Description: Demanding that one proves the non-existence of something in place of providing adequate evidence for the existence of that something. Although it may be possible to prove non-existence in special situations, such as showing that a container does not contain certain items, one cannot prove universal or absolute non-existence. The proof of existence must come from those who make the claims.

Example #1:

God exists. Until you can prove otherwise, I will continue to believe that he does.


https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/145/Proving-Non-Existence

Cha

(298,035 posts)
133. BS is falsely accusing Dems of "want"ing something that's entirely untrue
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:23 AM
Jan 2019
Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

comradebillyboy

(10,188 posts)
261. I read it to mean "only Bernie stands for the correct things"
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 06:03 PM
Jan 2019

and good Democrats like Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden et al don't.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
178. "same old shit underneath diverse packaging"
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:41 AM
Jan 2019

That's what diversity is?

Just packaging for "the same old shit?"

I know that he only hired POC for his Senate staff after it was pointed in the media, but I think he certainly has a much greater respect for diversity than your statement indicates you do.

Even considering he didn't think that the Vermont NAACP merited attendance at his Gathering.

Hekate

(91,006 posts)
108. WHY are his "opponents" ALWAYS DEMOCRATS and never the GOP?!
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:06 AM
Jan 2019

Go home, Bernie. Just go back to white Vermont where a black female elected official was hounded from office by threats of violence and death, and ask her about "identity politics." And try to listen this time.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
180. Indeed. Vermont isn't exactly a hotbed of diversity.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:45 AM
Jan 2019

Sanders has never had to address it in order to get elected there.

If he had tried to run for office in a large diverse constituency that more closely resembles the US population, I think his political career may have turned out differently, and been much shorter.

And it's clear he didn't think that the Vermont NAACP merited any place at his Gathering.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
111. Talk like this is what made his delegates feel OK booing John Lewis at our last convention
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:14 AM
Jan 2019

Yeah, ok. I keep posting this. But it is something I can’t believe more democrats don’t remember.

So it is kind of an obsession of mine. Maybe because I am still royally pissed of that one of the greatest Americans living and a Civil Rights Icon who got his head bashed in on Edmond Pettus bridge marching with MLK got booed at a Democratic convention.

And Bernie knew it was going to happen and sat there grinning like the cat that ate the canary while it happened. We all saw it.

Some things are unforgivable.

Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #111)

betsuni

(25,801 posts)
138. That they are very rude and noisy conspiracy theory nuts.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:37 AM
Jan 2019

She stole it. Lock her up. Build that wall. Drain the Swamp.

I guess three word slogans really work on some people.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
139. er...yeah, that's a whole lot of lumping together you've got going on there. I bet I could
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:18 AM
Jan 2019

find a shit load of chanted slogans that given your sympathies(and mine mind) you'd be fine with.

betsuni

(25,801 posts)
140. Conspiracy theories about John Lewis lying and Hillary stealing elections are nutty.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:31 AM
Jan 2019

Yes, We Can. Stronger Together. Those are nice. It's the nutty ones designed to get people to think of Democrats as corrupt liars that I do not care for.

JI7

(89,288 posts)
141. when you agree on shit like Hillary Stealing the election and booing John Lewis that pretty much
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:41 AM
Jan 2019

shows you are part of the same shitty bunch .

Gothmog

(145,894 posts)
176. Congressman John Lewis is a national treasure
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:33 AM
Jan 2019

I was shocked when I got the text from my whip about the planned booing of Congressman John Lewis by the sanders delegates. Again, my whip warned me of this stunt 20 to 30 minutes in advance. In the real world, campaigns carefully vet their delegates. I know that I was vetted and I was on a committee that vetted other Clinton delegates. The reasons for this is that a candidate's delegates represents the candidate and bad conduct by such delegates will hurt the candidate and the campaign.

This was a planned stunt by the sanders delegates. The Clinton campaign knew about this stunt in time to send warning to her delegates. My whip told me that sanders was asked to stop this stunt and declined.

I am proud to have met Congressman John Lewis four times and to have pleasure of Congressman Lewis tell his "preaching to chickens" story four times. I truly admire Congressman Lewis and will not forget what happened at the National Convention

If sanders runs, this incident will be used in some ads.

 

WeekiWater

(3,259 posts)
188. "that's a whole lot of lumping together you've got going on there."
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:03 PM
Jan 2019

Sanders statement is based on exactly that. His need to lump people together to the point he loses any meaning.

calimary

(81,597 posts)
160. That was a colossal disgrace. A genuine sin. SHAME on them.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:33 AM
Jan 2019

One does NOT boo a towering figure like John Lewis. That disgusting episode told me all I needed to know about them.

George II

(67,782 posts)
112. Senator Sanders, did it ever dawn on you that the VOTERS want "yadda yadda"....
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:15 AM
Jan 2019

....not your opponents? After all, they're the ones that will choose our next nominee and president, not your opponents.

trueblue2007

(17,245 posts)
114. i echo what everyone else has said in this thread. no thank you bernie.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:17 AM
Jan 2019

and what you said totally barfs me out

TheFarseer

(9,328 posts)
126. But
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:59 AM
Jan 2019

Can't we all be concerned about income inequality no matter what race you are? If he had gone all in on calling for racial justice, the critics would just say, " shut up Bernie, you don't know what its like to be black" Just admit that he can't do anything to please you - not specifically talking to the op.

Cha

(298,035 posts)
136. BS is falsely accusing Dems of "want"ing something that's entirely untrue
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:32 AM
Jan 2019
Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

Caliman73

(11,760 posts)
143. Yep. The blind spot is still there blind as ever.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:54 AM
Jan 2019

I liked Bernie's ideas about income and wealth disparity. I liked his populist brand of speech. I voted for him in the primary, but when I was listening to Mark Thompson, Joe Madison, and others I kept hearing how he would not go on their shows during the primary. Not even Nina Turner would go on. They just didn't even respond to requests to book him. Then I saw what he said about "identity politics" and it confirmed my concerns. He thinks that "diversity is enormously important" but he doesn't even understand why or he doesn't care. He is so narrowly focused, thinking that if we just increase income equality, that magically, people of color are going to be seen as equal.

He doesn't understand that women and people of color have been deliberately excluded from access to economic opportunity, even by the most progressive politicians, FDR, JFK, and others. He doesn't realize that President Obama could not and would not be a President for Black people because if he had shown any kind of preference or attention, he would likely have been killed. President Obama was already demonized for even trying to draw attention to disparate treatment of professor Gates when he was accosted by police in his own home, or when he pointed out similarities between Trayvon Martin and his own children, when Martin was killed by the racist George Zimmerman. Race is something that Bernie Sanders has never really had to consider, even when he was involved in the civil rights and student protests of the 60's. He could protest, then walk away and live his life while his Black colleagues in the struggle never could walk away because you cannot walk away from your Black or Brown skin.

That skin is who people see you for and they decide your worth based on that. They deny you home loans that you are qualified for, they turn down your application because your name is "too Black" sounding while they accept the EXACT same application for a White sounding name. Sanders doesn't see race because it is his privilege not to. He sees economic injustice but doesn't understand that economic injustice is inseparably tied to racial and gender inequality. You cannot address economic injustice without accepting that there is "Identity Politics" and that the White identity is the identity that matters most, and that needs to change, not "the system". The system is based on White norms and exclusionary to others. If you change the tax rates, that isn't going to stop redlining. It isn't going to stop people from subconsciously discriminating against Black and Brown job applicants, from passing women up on the STEM fields because of centuries of bias. We are SOCIAL animals not just economic animals. Our behavior is not based on money and acquiring wealth, it is based on our identity, on who we are, who we associate with, who shares our values, culture, religion, music, etc... Economics is what we think about because we have to eat and we have to buy things that make our lives livable and somewhat comfortable. Sanders needs to understand that ALL politics is IDENTITY politics, it really just depends on which identity is valuable and like I said, all of this time in America, the White identity has been the most important. White identity politics is just called politics, just like White history is just called History.

People of color aren't voting for people based solely on their gender or racial background. That view is patronizing and condescending. I would NEVER in a million years vote for Susana Martinez for any post, nor Alberto Gonzales. They are both Mexican-Americans like me, but their views are antithetical to mine. Sanders' statement appears to be saying that my political views are so shallow that I would vote solely based on what the candidate looked like. When Kamala Harris ran against Loretta Sanchez for US Senate, I did not vote for "the Latina" I voted for the best candidate, who's policies aligned with my own and who I saw would best represent California to the Nation. To think that I "vote for the Latina" is just an example of how many White people view people of color or how men view women. "You just support Hillary because she's a woman." No fuckhead, I support Hillary Clinton because she is smart, accomplished, was one of the most active first ladies, was Secretary of State and one of the most singularly qualified candidates. I will say this, given equal qualifications and similar qualities, I would support a candidate who shared my experiences and who looked like me, because I know that they would understand my needs. In the US for almost 2 centuries we, as people of color, and especially as women, have had to hope that older rich, White men could understand our experience or at least be sympathetic enough to it. At this point I do not trust that Sanders has the slightest idea about the real experiences of women or people of color. I do not trust him to fight for gender or racial equality and I think that he would through women, minorities, and immigrants under the bus in search of "class consciousness". I will not support him in the primary but if by some chance he happens to run for and win the Democratic nomination I will hold my nose and vote for him as the alternative to ANY Republican and then pray that my interests will be understood by a person who does not appear to know about or care about the experiences of people of color, or simply, the status quo for the last 240 years.

Cha

(298,035 posts)
164. "People of color aren't voting for people based solely on their gender or racial background. That..
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 06:17 AM
Jan 2019
..view is patronizing and condescending"

Exactly. Gracias for your post, Caliman

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
166. Bernie always has to have some excuse for why he didn't win. With him
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 07:08 AM
Jan 2019

it's just one excuse after another.

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
169. Hey Baby! You're the only one who seems to remember me...
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 07:45 AM
Jan 2019

I sat DU out during the 2015/2016 primaries.... because you know it gets When I came back on election night it was hacked and I lost my account.

 

Joe941

(2,848 posts)
179. Actually I think I agree. If Bernie was female or a minority I think he would be more accepted.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:45 AM
Jan 2019

White and democrat are a bit out of vogue right now. I hope we can always judge people by there content.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
183. Ah yes. White men are being oppressed more than anyone, so I hear.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:55 AM
Jan 2019

Just ask those poor Covington boys.

 

Joe941

(2,848 posts)
198. Racism (and other isms) in all forms has to stop - it tears our country apart.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:11 PM
Jan 2019

Question for you: The black Hebrews were being racists towards Covington boys, agree?

All racism is wrong. I will not support racism towards any group of people especially minorities, but including whites. It has absolutely divided our country in horrible ways.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
204. My response was concerning your statements to the effect
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:39 PM
Jan 2019

that white men are at a disadvantage in the Democratic Party.

Is that clearer?

White men complaining of reverse racism/sexism are expected from Trumpers or over at JPR, but not here on DU.

athena

(4,187 posts)
195. Wow. A beautiful demonstration of white male privilege.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:08 PM
Jan 2019

White male privilege allows a person to benefit from all the advantages of being white and male, and then turn around and claim he has been at a severe disadvantage all his life and that women and minorities have it so much easier.

I suggest you start actually listening to women and minorities. Learn about what we deal with every day before telling us we have it easier. Practice some empathy.

If Bernie had been female, he would have been called “shrill”, “weak”, and “unqualified “. If he had been black, he would have been dismissed as “an angry black man”, assuming he actually made it as far as the Senate and didn’t end up in jail or murdered by a cop decades earlier.

And yet, we have to listen to white men mansplaining to us that Bernie, all along, has had it so tough because he’s a white and male.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
201. +1000
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:14 PM
Jan 2019

But they have a point. Just look at the free ride we've given to all of female and black Democratic Socialist senators with multiple marriages, a child out of wedlock, a propensity for disheveled hair and rumpled clothing, shaking their fingers and bellowing about the oligarchy ... THEY all get taken seriously, but poor Bernie can't catch a break ...

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
196. Yes. Being a white man in America is such a burden
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:09 PM
Jan 2019

If only Bernie were female or minority, he'd be taken much more seriously.

Poor poor Bernie

 

Joe941

(2,848 posts)
207. I said nothing about life in America.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:50 PM
Jan 2019

But since you ask... being white in america I'm positive is easier than being a minority. That is wrong.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
205. Your exact words: "If Bernie was female or a minority I think he would be more accepted."
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:43 PM
Jan 2019

What Effie said: "If Bernie were female or minority, he'd be taken much more seriously."

I think that's pretty much what you said.

The fact that so many people are calling your statement an example of white male privilege should tell you something.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
191. I see three years later Bernie is still following the same bankrupt strategy
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:05 PM
Jan 2019

from those same jaggoff advisors...

No lessons learned at al

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
206. Common wisdom on DU states that Bernie does not appeal to minorities. We will see.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:48 PM
Jan 2019

We will see how that plays out in the real world, outside of the echo chamber of liberal activists and party loyalists.

I have a feeling that the average person of some minority demographic cares less about such statements than "common sense" would suggest.

From what I hear, actual polls show that amongst all demographics Bernie is least popular amongst white males and old people.

For better or for worse, my bets are that most people, across demographics, will see Joe Biden as the "default candidate". And if Biden gets the nomination, chances are he will lose to Trump.

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
214. Not really. On DU we have seen, for sure. In the real world not so much.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:24 PM
Jan 2019

In 2016 Bernie started from zero name recognition and ended up with 43 percent of the popular vote against the "inevitable" candidate. Those are not bad results, by any stretch of the imagination.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
217. Because of the Mueller investigation, we know things now that were were not known then
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:32 PM
Jan 2019

concerning election interference, and a misinformation campaign by Russia.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/

Since the election, the process of vetting Senator Sanders has truly started. Of course financial transparency is just a part of it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexism.html

Should he run again, that will make things very different.




 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
220. You "feel" that he's popular with minority demographics
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:40 PM
Jan 2019

And you 'hear' that white men and old people aren't the ones that make up Bernie's base.

Your "bets" are that Joe Biden is now going to be the candidate.

Got any statistics to back these feelings up?

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
221. Good statistics are pretty hard to come by currently.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:01 PM
Jan 2019

The relative unpopularity of Bernie Sanders amongst old white males is discussed here:

https://www.vox.com/2018/12/19/18148681/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-approval-rating

And I said that I bet Biden will be seen as the "default candidate", not that he will get the nomination.

People who believe that minority voters will rally behind Kamala Harris might be in for a surprise. In 2016, from different interviews I gathered that a lot of what drove the support for Hillary Clinton amongst older black voters was the fact that she was seen as a "safe play". It is reasonable to assume that Biden will draw a significant chunk of the black vote for similar reasons.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
222. So, it's your "feeling," but you expect it to carry the weight of fact in this discussion.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:13 PM
Jan 2019

Where have I heard that before?

betsuni

(25,801 posts)
240. The Blue Wave certainly surprised him.
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 01:32 AM
Jan 2019

I guess if one believes the Democratic Party is a "failed ideology" their victory would seem to come out of the blue. Maybe he should rethink that.

Cha

(298,035 posts)
241. Sure did. Curious what are his
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 01:58 AM
Jan 2019

thoughts on Woman Badass Nancy Pelosi? Not really.. doesn't matter.

I know we have people of all colors, genders, and orientations who are more qualified and dedicated than he is.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
247. The Blue Wave didn't validate his claims that the Democratic Party
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 07:41 AM
Jan 2019

wasn't really getting it right in terms of priorities, and how our message, where it differs from his, isn't really resonating with people.

All those POC elected without his or OR's or "Social Justice Democrats" endorsement, in other words, "regardless of their positions."

The Blue Wave validated "his opponents," which from seem to be anyone who dissents in any way from the manifesto and doesn't get his endorsement.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,552 posts)
243. kick
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:11 AM
Jan 2019

Just to help this thread stay in sight of other Bernie threads.

Glad that little trash clicker is available.

peggysue2

(10,850 posts)
245. No, Senator Sanders
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 03:49 AM
Jan 2019

Your opponents, the Democratic Party, can see through the film-flam. This is not 2016.

But if you insist? Please, proceed.

TeamPooka

(24,294 posts)
246. Diversity in representation leads to better public policies. If Bernie can't see that it's time
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 03:58 AM
Jan 2019

to retire

MaryMagdaline

(6,859 posts)
252. I just heard Kamala Harris on Rachel Show say that her mother told her that if you seen something
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:08 PM
Jan 2019

wrong, do something about it. That's why she's running. I heard Elizabeth Warren talk about the dying middle class.

Not sure what Bernie means by "identity politics." These candidates are qualified and they are principled.

Catch2.2

(629 posts)
285. I agree
Fri Mar 22, 2019, 10:01 PM
Mar 2019

We shouldn't elect someone just because they are Black, white, latina, or female. We should elect them because they are black, white, latina, female and share the values that we do.

“My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. That is my view."
- BS

Response to Catch2.2 (Reply #285)

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