General Discussion

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts) Fri Jan 25, 2019, 09:11 AM Jan 2019

Indictments -- what am I missing?

There is all this secret squirrel energy and excitement about indictments and jail. . . . . but what does it mean? If Trump can just pardon everyone, what is the point? Where is the justice?

This keeps happening. People in the administration commit crimes and their president pardons them. Isn't that a misuse of the pardon? Isn't it supposed to be used for some injustice in the system, like all the people of color in prison for petty crimes, planted evidence, etc? Why can they use it to take all consequences from their minions? Is there no standard for who can be pardoned? Many people from other administrations should have gotten real jail time from both the Reagan and GW administrations. . . . and yet . . .
Why is there no real justice for them? How can a president simply pardon everyone who commits crimes for them?

8 replies

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Highlight:

Indictments -- what am I missing? (Original Post) pdsimdars Jan 2019 OP

Pardoning for the purpose of obstruction C_U_L8R Jan 2019 #1

Seemed to work for GWB exboyfil Jan 2019 #2

I believe that accepting a pardon mac56 Jan 2019 #3

You Are Correct ChoppinBroccoli Jan 2019 #7

Who in this administration has Trump pardoned? onenote Jan 2019 #4

Patience. Sinistrous Jan 2019 #5

I for one think the pardons WILL come when bluestarone Jan 2019 #6

It worked for GWB because North took the fall, and marylandblue Jan 2019 #8

C_U_L8R

(45,037 posts)

1. Pardoning for the purpose of obstruction

Reply to pdsimdars (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 09:15 AM

Jan 2019

That may be what’s holding him back. But leave it to Trump to dig himself an even deeper ditch.

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)

2. Seemed to work for GWB

Reply to C_U_L8R (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 09:41 AM

Jan 2019

We really should have followed that rabbit up the hole when it happened.

mac56

(17,575 posts)

3. I believe that accepting a pardon

Reply to pdsimdars (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 09:49 AM

Jan 2019

Equals admitting guilt of the crime.

I believe it also means that the person receiving the pardon can no longer decline to testify.

ChoppinBroccoli

(3,786 posts)

7. You Are Correct

Reply to mac56 (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:57 AM

Jan 2019

In order to invoke your 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination, there has to be the possibility of incrimination. If you've been pardoned, that threat is gone, and therefore so is your 5th Amendment right to remain silent.

I really think Trump is over a barrel here. If he pardons his associates, they have to admit guilt. If they admit guilt, it proves HIS guilt. And if they then can be compelled to testify, it's all over for him. That's why I don't think the promise of pardons holds much water. Trump cares about one thing and one thing only: himself. He would kick his own grandmother down a flight of stairs to save his own skin. That's how sociopaths are.

onenote

(42,831 posts)

4. Who in this administration has Trump pardoned?

Reply to pdsimdars (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2019, 09:54 AM

Jan 2019

I understand your concern about Trump granting pardons, but your OP makes it sound like every time Mueller indicts or gets a guilty verdict/plea deal involving someone, Trump pardons them. But that hasn't happened yet.