General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOccam's Razor and the Trump Tower meeting.
Its extremely simple.
The Trump Tower meeting was attended by Trumps campaign manager, his son-in-law and his son. Literally the three most important people in his campaign besides Trump himself.
When the meeting was scheduled, Trump immediately announced he would be giving a speech claiming dirt on Hillary.
The chances he had no knowledge of these events at the time they were happening are virtually nil.
Remember, the two questions we know Trump has answered in writing to Mueller are:
1. Whether he had any contemporaneous knowledge of the Trump Tower meeting?
and
2. Whether he knew that Roger Stone was communicating with Wikileaks during the campaign?
He answered no to both questions.
Buckle up. Its about to get even more interesting.
spanone
(135,950 posts)empedocles
(15,751 posts)[well done]
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)That "announcement" that he was going to release information on Hillary and the timing of it could not have been coincidental.
Much of the circumstantial evidence (including his behavior towards Putin) is indeed in plain site.
calimary
(81,608 posts)Never happened. That following Monday came afollowing, alright. And nothing. No speech. No fiery civilian indictment of purported Clinton crimes. NOTHING.
Im no expert OR insider here. But after he gave that speech calling on Russia to find those 30-thousand emails (which I suspect was the trigger, the green light, the official go-ahead - that the Russian trolls were waiting for, to get started) late that week, I think they probably got a look at those emails and found a big fat NOTHING.
I suspect that a lot of the advance work had been done. That maybe the stolen emails were already in hand but that nobodyd started sitting through them yet, or they found THE link or THE way in - and were just waiting for the timing to be right for the big release. And it was a whole lotta nothing.
Could this possibly be the same load of emails that Comey just HAD TO blab about that turned up in October of 2016, just before the election - that Comey eventually conceded were a whole lotta nothing?
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,235 posts)Whether that had anything to do with anything is an entirely different matter altogether.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,256 posts)mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)In fact the release of those documents, along with public allegations that Russia was behind them ... are (ostensibly) WHY Trump phrased that the way that he did.
It may've been a Sign to Russia that 'I approve' and maybe even 'as I told you secretly, keep helping me and if I win I'll remove sanctions' ... but it was not a trigger to release DNC docs.
Now, IIRC, the Podesta emails had not yet been released, so I suppose it could've been a signal to go ahead and release those ...
But the Russian trolls were already WELL started before that little number by Trump.
calimary
(81,608 posts)Im convinced it was a signal he sent to the Russians and their nogoodnik troll squads to unleash the hounds. Or go full-tilt-boogie on what they already had and were holding - waiting for just the right moment.
scarytomcat
(1,706 posts)damaging to Clinton or her campaign? I never saw anything. They were John Podesta's emails that were hacked and stolen but I don't think the was anything damaging or illegal.
Comey had Clinton emails that the rethugs were trying prove she used a private server for top secret stuff and 30 thousand were supposedly missing.They were eventually found I believe and were all personal. Comey right before the election found emails that were duplicates of ones he already had and made his announcement before he looked at them or so he said later after the damage was done.
calimary
(81,608 posts)that came out of any of these emails. Maybe Im just foggy this morning. But I do remember thinking how Much Ado About Nothing it was. For BOTH the Hillary emails AND the Podesta emails. Big helping of nothingburgers.
scarytomcat
(1,706 posts)I don't remember anything either.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)That basically suggested that DWS had more or less 'wronged' Bernie in the primary, that Hillary may've been supportive of that action.
It gave the Facebook hackers great ammunition to turn around and target the Bernie voters they'd identified, with messages of how 'Hillary, DWS and DNC screwed Bernie!1!!' ... and they got just enough of them to either stay home, or vote for Stein or Trump, in the needed States.
aggiesal
(8,963 posts)dalton99a
(81,708 posts)Eyeball_Kid
(7,440 posts)We, or rather or representative press, presumes Trumpy's truthfulness at his every utterance, then present SHOCK that, oh, once again, Trumpy is lying. Every day, the same process occurs, and once again, we find that he lies, and then he lies about his lies.
NOTHING Trumpy says speaks of truth. We don't have a president who cares about truth. Yet, again and again, even the most resistant of media companies continually equivocates with language that mollifies the true horror of Trumpy's presidency.
When media companies convey a presumption that Trumpy first and always LIES, and that he is a con artist and criminal, the nation can be seen as making progress. We must move beyond the puffery that anyone in the presidency is imbued with presidential qualities of statesmanship and national leadership. Trumpy has none of these qualities. When media companies (the electronic and printed press) report on a daily basis that this is Trumpy's MO, and that he never deviates from it, we can begin to move on.
pandr32
(11,644 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)Oh! And I agree with you.
Botany
(70,663 posts)Please.
https://themoscowproject.org/collusion-timeline/
look @ the timeline from May 2016 to July 2016
SunSeeker
(51,815 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)It has been proved that he was surrounded at the highest levels of his campaign with active crooks and spies with all the indictments set forth, but he had no idea? No clue? He was just the innocent, honest, idealistic, sincere hero and advocate of the little oppressed white man?
He is only a victim of his lawyer who unbeknownst to him did all kinds of dirty work just to protect him without him knowing? Evil women who he ignored always put their pussies in his hand, victimizing him out of some strange spite?
Yeah, sure.
Botany
(70,663 posts)... his dad but to just some other, "other guy."
lunatica
(53,410 posts)All his kids do. Theyre responsible for making him the Prez!
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,807 posts)Read these 2 articles and try to convince someone that president Wallnutto did not know what was going on. Junior didnt have to call him directly...he knew what that tower meeting was all about.
https://www.businessinsider.com/r-separation-anxiety-trumps-management-style-poses-challenges-in-oval-office-2016-12
****snip****
Interviews with a dozen people familiar with how Trump conducts business reveal the president-elect as a micromanager who regularly spars over details about decor in projects across his real estate and branding empire.
"I'm very much involved in the details," Trump said during a June deposition in a lawsuit stemming from his development of a Washington hotel. "I was involved in the design of the building and the room sizes and the entrances and the lobby and the marble and the bathrooms and the fixtures and the bars and a lot of things."
****snip****
This article is really good.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/14/donald-trump-former-employee-interviews-ego-diversity
****snip****
While Trumps self-regard is well established, these accounts, some from former staff members who have not spoken about their time in the company since Trump announced his candidacy, give a more detailed insight into the dynamics of Trumps organisational and management style, which serve perhaps as a portentous insight into how he could operate in the White House.
A consensus emerged of a businessman obsessed with minute detail, prone to micromanagement, who takes little interest in the diversity of his executives or the welfare of lower-level employees. Some said Trump lacks the temperament to deal with setbacks and becomes instantly impatient with those who do not support or agree with him, while remaining resolutely loyal to those who do. Others described their former boss as a workaholic with few true friends, a man sometimes awkward in company outside the workplace.
****snip****
Yeah, he knew nothing...nothing I tell you...nothing.
LuvNewcastle
(16,867 posts)the details of the most important thing hes ever done. Not a chance.
cilla4progress
(24,802 posts)our national nightmare. But also riveted.
Devastating and not something this country will reckon with soon.
In fact, at 63, I suppose we will be dealing with repurcussions till I die and long after.
2naSalit
(86,978 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)after we kick his ass out, or he quits. Whichever comes first.
Its going to take a while.
Wounded Bear
(58,795 posts)2naSalit
(86,978 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,235 posts)Same way anything gets proven.
There is going to be more than one person who doesn't feel that Donald Trump is worth going to jail for.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Just an in person conversation with no witnesses.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,235 posts)....that Trump knew about the meeting when it was going on.
You also have people like Hope Hicks or Trump's personal assistant who may have had knowledge about the meeting and was relaying it to Trump, and those people might not like the idea of going down with the SS Trump.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Looks like Cohen is really to spill everything - hopefully the rest will follow suit.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)Junior had been in contact with the Russian lawyer, was offered dirt, then set up the meeting. In other words, this took planning over a period of time. So Rump is saying that he never knew anything about it? So Junior acted completely on his own in taking up the deal? I have two thoughts on this.
1) I obviously don't believe Rump's story for one second.
2) Way to throw Junior under the bus!
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,235 posts).....Donald Junior turning against his dad in the end.
It's pure fantasy, mind you, and is about as likely to happen as the whole "Let's get Hillary magically installed as President because she was cheated out of her victory, even though the Constitution doesn't contemplate such a scenario" fantasy that gets bandied about here from time to time.
But it would be absolutely magnificent to see unfold if it ever did happen.
Grasswire2
(13,575 posts)It seems pretty certain (and there may be record already, I don't remember) that TT was being surveilled for Russian mobbery, money laundering, etc.
Why would there not be that capability?