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shockey80

(4,379 posts)
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 01:23 PM Feb 2019

Mueller is releasing his report in his indictments.

Mueller is smart as hell. He is going to make sure the American people learn what Trump and his band of lunatics did. There is no way in hell Mueller is going to let anybody block or hide his report.

Mueller leaves little clues, sometimes big clues in his indictments. He is telling us a story.

Maddow does a great job going through the court transcripts of the indictments and explaining what it means. Learning Mueller has evidence of Stone communicating with Russia and wiki-leaks was a big clue.

Mueller has Roger Stone by his balls. Stone is about to watch his life long friend go to prison for life. What is he going to do, follow in Manaforts foot prints or will he make a deal in order to save his dumb ass.

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Mueller is releasing his report in his indictments. (Original Post) shockey80 Feb 2019 OP
Rachael Maddow ginnyinWI Feb 2019 #1
Maddow, with the help of a great team, is probably one of the best investigative journalists in the yaesu Feb 2019 #9
I'm not that sure about her and her team being great investigators... Fiendish Thingy Feb 2019 #25
Just wake me when the impeachment hearings start. InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2019 #28
Here's another source for The Rachel Maddow Show. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Feb 2019 #20
oh--it requires a Flash Player plug in. ginnyinWI Feb 2019 #39
It is getting into... N_E_1 for Tennis Feb 2019 #2
And a thing to remember is that Stone and Manafort were cilla4progress Feb 2019 #3
And the GOP needs to be tattooed with that. This isn't just a Trump campaign issue. Progressive Jones Feb 2019 #22
Yep cilla4progress Feb 2019 #41
This is true, and the general press is terrible manor321 Feb 2019 #4
The US corporate media created and enabled Trump. guillaumeb Feb 2019 #5
The "press" isn't panel shows on cable news BannonsLiver Feb 2019 #6
Especially Pete Williams. Wellstone ruled Feb 2019 #7
He's a dumb ass. He needs a solid ten year sentence. marble falls Feb 2019 #8
I'm picturing this entire PatSeg Feb 2019 #10
I think Stone and Manafort are counting on a pardon Jarqui Feb 2019 #11
It trump pardons them, they will have to talk. Their 5th amendment right will be lost. onecaliberal Feb 2019 #12
In his case, what does a pardon get him? Jarqui Feb 2019 #21
Stone was directed to communicate with Wikileaks. They have at least a terabyte or info on that onecaliberal Feb 2019 #33
He's a "Piece of vile excrement" - no doubt Jarqui Feb 2019 #36
Stone has been committing crimes for decades. They'll find state crimes to charge. onecaliberal Feb 2019 #37
I sure hope so Jarqui Feb 2019 #38
I agree. Karma needs to visit that asshole in it's full measure. onecaliberal Feb 2019 #40
Too bad Manafort can't be held in jail until after the orange maggot is out of office then sentence kimbutgar Feb 2019 #13
No worries-- SDNY RainCaster Feb 2019 #14
Do you mean New York State? mobeau69 Feb 2019 #27
Yes- that is the moniker for the Southern District of New York (Attorney General's office) RainCaster Feb 2019 #29
SDNY is NOT New York State or the NY Attorney General Dread Pirate Roberts Feb 2019 #44
Rep. Nadler had said this on MSNBC onetexan Feb 2019 #15
I'll also put out a shout to Marcy Wheeler and her band of contributors/commentors erronis Feb 2019 #16
she's wonderful... halobeam Feb 2019 #43
Such a bastardization of the Presidential Pardon, which seemed a bit legally nebulous even before LiberalLovinLug Feb 2019 #17
If pardons don't protect Trumpy, he won't pardon. Eyeball_Kid Feb 2019 #19
But these are not State charges are they? LiberalLovinLug Feb 2019 #23
Since to get a pardon they have to tell all, Cold War Spook Feb 2019 #31
Oh, I didn't know they are required to "tell all" LiberalLovinLug Feb 2019 #32
I'm sure it is all, Cold War Spook Feb 2019 #34
Are you sure? Everyone talks about prison, like Ollie North? Is "prison" a radio career? pdsimdars Feb 2019 #18
Re: Ollie North Cheviteau Feb 2019 #24
Anyone remember North Cold War Spook Feb 2019 #35
Outa Here Cheviteau Feb 2019 #26
Mueller's got him by the stones... Blue Owl Feb 2019 #30
Mueller has always been and will always be a neocon. The trust and worship for him on here is... MadDAsHell Feb 2019 #42

ginnyinWI

(17,276 posts)
1. Rachael Maddow
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 01:26 PM
Feb 2019

She's a great resource to go to when you want to unwind the day's events. I don't have cable but I have her podcasts on my phone and listen the morning after her show.

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
9. Maddow, with the help of a great team, is probably one of the best investigative journalists in the
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 02:29 PM
Feb 2019

21st century. As good as she is just think how good she could be if she worked for a deep pockets progressive media outlet.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,714 posts)
25. I'm not that sure about her and her team being great investigators...
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 04:08 PM
Feb 2019

She usually has other people on who have done great investigating, but I can't recall when she herself has provided important scoops.

Where Rachel excels, IMO, is in analysis; she takes all the facts in evidence and gives it context and meaning, historically, legally, politically, etc. She connects the dots better than just about anyone- case in point: when the Watergate "roadmap" was declassified recently, she did a lengthy report on what it was all about, and what it could mean for Meuller's investigation (that the Grand Jury/Judge could release all evidence presented by Meuller directly to Congress, without interference from the Executive Branch)

Progressive Jones

(6,011 posts)
22. And the GOP needs to be tattooed with that. This isn't just a Trump campaign issue.
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 03:40 PM
Feb 2019

The entire GOP is complicit. This is their problem. Trump is temporary. The GOP coup has been going on for years, and will continue until the life is crushed out of it.

 

manor321

(3,344 posts)
4. This is true, and the general press is terrible
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 01:31 PM
Feb 2019

I don't understand why more shows can't cover this like Rachel does? Chris Hayes and Lawrence often do a decent job. But then we have total jackasses like Ken Dilanian, Michael Isikoff, Pete Williams and others who go out of their way to downplay the investigation every chance they get.

Just last week Ken was desperately screaming that both Democrats and Republicans on the Senate Intel Committee found no collusion and they were wrapping up their investigation. Then when Senator Warner publicly disagreed, Ken chastised him!

Then yesterday Mueller drops the bombshell that they have communications between Stone and Guccifer and Stone and Wikileaks.

Most of the press is working as hard as it can to downplay this story, despite the facts.

BannonsLiver

(16,548 posts)
6. The "press" isn't panel shows on cable news
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 01:42 PM
Feb 2019

I think that’s a big part of the issue here. A lot of people don’t know the difference between investigative reporters for the NYT and WaPo and some dope who does 6 hits a day on cable news.

PatSeg

(47,772 posts)
10. I'm picturing this entire
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 02:31 PM
Feb 2019

investigation being filled with carefully placed booby traps and landmines that will go off if anyone tries to interfere, cover it up, or shut it down. Like perhaps some automatic leaks of information to major newspapers like The Pentagon Papers. There has to be many ways to protect the information and get it out to the public.

During Watergate, the lawyers all took bits and pieces home with them over time, in case Nixon shut them down and buried all the evidence. In this digital age, it must be a lot easier to copy and protect the results of the investigation(s). There are a lot of really smart people involved and they aren't going to let all their work be swept under the rug.

Jarqui

(10,131 posts)
11. I think Stone and Manafort are counting on a pardon
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 02:36 PM
Feb 2019

Whether they get one remains to be seen.
If Trump doesn't deliver, others in the hot seat might be more prone to flip.

I suspect Don Jr is going to be arrested in the next couple of weeks.
That will be a real test for the crazy orangutan masquerading as President.
He'll lash out ...

onecaliberal

(33,014 posts)
12. It trump pardons them, they will have to talk. Their 5th amendment right will be lost.
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 02:40 PM
Feb 2019

It’s a no win for dump. I’m thinking Manafort is protecting his family from a Russian tea party.

Jarqui

(10,131 posts)
21. In his case, what does a pardon get him?
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 03:32 PM
Feb 2019

A whole bunch of state level charges that will put him in prison for a long, long time.

Timing is important financially. A pardon relieves unpaid fines but doesn't clawback fines already paid. if Trump hesitates, Manafort will be wiped out financially (if he isn't already because I doubt he can't forgive taxes, penalties or all the civil action from the banks he ripped off for example).

Maybe Manafort's situation was so hopeless, it didn't matter what he did. So he just continued to be the dishonest prick he's always been.

Stone is currently a bit more interesting because I do not know what state level charges they can get him on. So a pardon might really help him. i'm not sure about that ...

onecaliberal

(33,014 posts)
33. Stone was directed to communicate with Wikileaks. They have at least a terabyte or info on that
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 05:05 PM
Feb 2019

Piece of vile excrement.

Jarqui

(10,131 posts)
36. He's a "Piece of vile excrement" - no doubt
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 05:14 PM
Feb 2019

They also have linked Stone to Guccifer 2.0.
So Stone is also in deep excrement.

But those are federal crimes. A Trump pardon cleans his slate. I'm not clear what the state crime would be for that ... (if any)

With Manafort, bank fraud and tax evasion can be handled at a state level. What parts of Stone's indictment can be prosecuted under state law?

Jarqui

(10,131 posts)
38. I sure hope so
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 06:16 PM
Feb 2019

I protested Tricky Dick.

To see one of his dirty tricksters still profiting off dirty tricks and consorting with the Russians 45 years later is a little hard to take.

They need to throw away the key

kimbutgar

(21,285 posts)
13. Too bad Manafort can't be held in jail until after the orange maggot is out of office then sentence
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 02:46 PM
Feb 2019

Him. He won't get that pardon then and a bad guy is held accountable.

Dread Pirate Roberts

(1,898 posts)
44. SDNY is NOT New York State or the NY Attorney General
Sun Feb 17, 2019, 09:17 AM
Feb 2019

The SDNY is the FEDERAL District Court for the Southern District of NY under the U.S. District Court system. Every state has at least one district. All of the larger states like NY & CA have multiple districts. They only charge federal crimes. They are under the direction-at least to a certain extent- of the U.S. Attorney General. Crimes charged and convicted in the SDNY, by jurisdiction, can only be based on federal statutes and certainly can be pardoned by the President.

State courts, on the other hand, are not subject to presidential pardons. The New York Attorney General, and the prosecutor's offices under his jurisdiction, bring cases in the criminal division of the New York State Courts. In New York, that is called the New York Supreme Court. That is the trial level court in NY.

onetexan

(13,081 posts)
15. Rep. Nadler had said this on MSNBC
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 02:58 PM
Feb 2019

Mueller is slowly but clearly revealing the contents of his report. The biggest bombshell yet to be dropped of course.

erronis

(15,470 posts)
16. I'll also put out a shout to Marcy Wheeler and her band of contributors/commentors
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 03:00 PM
Feb 2019

who have very carefully laid out the timelines and some of the motives of these criminals/conspirators who are trying to bring down the US government.

Example: https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/02/14/the-unseen-aspects-of-paul-manaforts-lies-and-truth-telling/


LiberalLovinLug

(14,180 posts)
17. Such a bastardization of the Presidential Pardon, which seemed a bit legally nebulous even before
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 03:20 PM
Feb 2019

To use it in order to witness tamper and as a carrot for his cronies to lie for him.

Its sickening to think all of Muellers work could be for naught, unless he bags the orange dotard himself. Because I have no doubts Trump will have no qualms about pardoning any and all. He has absolutely no shame. And that will be accepted as the "norm" in the Trump era, or at least not surprising. Almost half the country will support him and a large chunk will agree with him that they were actually innocent and all the charges were just invented, and its all some Deep State conspiracy against the one President that could made America great again! And Trump will be revered as a hero for cutting through all the deep state machinations to make right a great wrong.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,440 posts)
19. If pardons don't protect Trumpy, he won't pardon.
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 03:29 PM
Feb 2019

Trumpy is not loyal. He's only selfish. If he can't see the upside FOR HIM in pardoning Manafort or Stone, he'll let them hang and blame them for his own misery. So that means that Mueller has to make it known that Manafort and Stone will NOT benefit from a pardon, and neither will Trumpy. So if Manafort and Stone are still going to prison because of state charges in spite of a Trumpy pardon, his pardon will not be effective, and his ball of lies will unravel.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,180 posts)
23. But these are not State charges are they?
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 03:53 PM
Feb 2019

Even if, throwing out, or making void, any federal indictments with a pardon would still help them on that front, and then they could concentrate on fighting the State charges if any. (I wonder if they could leverage the Presidential pardon then for the State charges ie...if the damn POTUS thinks we are innocent and pardoned us, that should be weighted in)

But I think these charges and more importantly what Mueller could have gotten from them for reduced sentencing, if there was no hope for a pardon, is all lost. So even if their charges had nothing to do with implicating Trump's family, which is hard to believe, a pardon would still send a strong message to them and to any future witnesses, that Daddy T will take care of them. And it for sure prevents any of them to ever be volunteering information for any reduction of jail time if they know they will never see the inside of a cell for those federal crimes anyways.

 

Cold War Spook

(1,279 posts)
31. Since to get a pardon they have to tell all,
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 04:58 PM
Feb 2019

I imagine what they say in federal court can be used against them in state courts.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,180 posts)
32. Oh, I didn't know they are required to "tell all"
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 05:02 PM
Feb 2019

But even if......they can easily just lie and say they know nothing more. Or that their memory is fuzzy.

 

Cold War Spook

(1,279 posts)
34. I'm sure it is all,
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 05:09 PM
Feb 2019

but it must be enough to convince a judge you understand what you were found guilty of. I don't think you can get a pardon otherwise.

Cheviteau

(383 posts)
24. Re: Ollie North
Sat Feb 16, 2019, 04:06 PM
Feb 2019

The Senate fucked up royally when North was given immunity for his testimony. Notice, since then the Senate has not given immunity to another witness that has appeared before them. They learned their lesson.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
42. Mueller has always been and will always be a neocon. The trust and worship for him on here is...
Sun Feb 17, 2019, 01:24 AM
Feb 2019

unnerving. I thought I knew this place.

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