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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:31 PM Feb 2019

Harris on election security: 'Russia can't hack a piece of paper'


BY JOHN BOWDEN - 02/19/19 11:07 AM EST

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) on Tuesday issued a call for states to focus on election security and possibly adopt paper ballot measures, telling a crowd of New Hampshire voters that paper ballots remain the securest way to cast votes.

Speaking at the "Politics & Eggs" breakfast in New Hampshire, the 2020 Democratic contender told attendees that her infrastructure plan as president would include investments in election security at the state level.

"We have proposed that part of the investment in infrastructure has to be upgrading the infrastructure of states around elections," Harris said Tuesday. "Because guess what? As it turns out, for all that technology has brought us, good and bad, the best way to conduct secure elections? Paper ballots."

"Cause, the way I kind of say it, half joking, is 'Russia can't hack a piece of paper,' " Harris added.




more
https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/430565-harris-calls-for-paper-ballots-in-elections-russia-cant-hack-a-piece-of
37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Harris on election security: 'Russia can't hack a piece of paper' (Original Post) DonViejo Feb 2019 OP
We have Paper Ballots in Minnesota..... ProudMNDemocrat Feb 2019 #1
voter fraud is not and never has been a significant problem Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2019 #20
I was one for 7 years True Blue American Feb 2019 #24
Our paper ballots are scanned & then fed through a tabulator. CrispyQ Feb 2019 #2
True, as long as nobody intercepts the ballots before tabulation Baitball Blogger Feb 2019 #7
Ballots used to be counted at the precinct prior to delivery to the ROV ... aggiesal Feb 2019 #16
It's a slow agonizing forensic audit that we're doing now. Baitball Blogger Feb 2019 #23
If they are done purely by allowing the machines to count the ballots, aggiesal Feb 2019 #28
Looks like we're finally going to get answers. Baitball Blogger Feb 2019 #29
That would take more space than most precincts have loyalsister Feb 2019 #30
+1,000,000 THIS!!! This is STILL the gold standard for election integrity. All the technology diva77 Feb 2019 #33
This should be an OP!!! diva77 Feb 2019 #35
The hack would happen further up the process chain and where there's the least amount of security uponit7771 Feb 2019 #10
Sing it, Sister!!! Blue Owl Feb 2019 #3
+1 Power 2 the People Feb 2019 #4
+++ agree iluvtennis Feb 2019 #14
👍 crazytown Feb 2019 #17
Brilliant, and completely right on! MoonRiver Feb 2019 #5
We have 100% paper ballots MurrayDelph Feb 2019 #6
Similar to what i say when friends make fun of my calendar. Paper doesnt crash! Neither does cash! oldsoftie Feb 2019 #8
Yes Indeed colsohlibgal Feb 2019 #9
Now this is brought up? LiberalLovinLug Feb 2019 #11
This is a state government issue. And a district issue. ehrnst Feb 2019 #21
The fact that it benefits one party over the other is a pretty good reason to bring it up. LiberalLovinLug Feb 2019 #25
We need it to be made a priority by law enforcement at a national level ehrnst Feb 2019 #31
You are right, it is a national security issue. LiberalLovinLug Feb 2019 #32
I see it happening with Democrats, and they are still being called partisan ehrnst Feb 2019 #36
Happy and proud to live in Massachutts bluescribbler Feb 2019 #12
This may be a little off topic but AZ is considering requiring that all early mail in ballots be in2herbs Feb 2019 #13
100% Agree ZeroSomeBrains Feb 2019 #15
K & R SunSeeker Feb 2019 #18
Paper in California. Vote by mail, you keep a coded stub. VOX Feb 2019 #19
The problem is also voter databases. Those can't be transferred to paper. ehrnst Feb 2019 #22
I wish a democratic candidate Fuzzpope Feb 2019 #26
Don't forget those paper ballots are counted & the results are stored in an electronic file. CaptainTruth Feb 2019 #27
It won't solve everything, but it's still one step in the right direction. nt Maru Kitteh Feb 2019 #34
Mahalo.. We have paper ballots! Cha Feb 2019 #37

ProudMNDemocrat

(16,913 posts)
1. We have Paper Ballots in Minnesota.....
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:35 PM
Feb 2019

I have been an Election Judge since 2006. There has been NO cases of Voter Fraud in my experience.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,585 posts)
20. voter fraud is not and never has been a significant problem
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:56 PM
Feb 2019

Election fraud is the problem. Paper ballots eliminate those forms of election fraud which are enabled by electronic voting.

True Blue American

(17,998 posts)
24. I was one for 7 years
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:13 PM
Feb 2019

No problems at all with any of that,and they put paper receipts on the electronic machines. Double check.

CrispyQ

(36,574 posts)
2. Our paper ballots are scanned & then fed through a tabulator.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:43 PM
Feb 2019

It's nice we have a paper trail, but the counting process is still electronic.

That's an awesome marketing slogan - Russia can't hack paper. I hope the dems run with it.

Baitball Blogger

(46,785 posts)
7. True, as long as nobody intercepts the ballots before tabulation
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:00 PM
Feb 2019

in order to fill in the blanks.

I had a strange experience back around 2000, when I was still finding my way around the city's political networks. One of them called us together to see if we would be interested in providing research for a lawyer. The meeting was interesting enough for me to all but forget a side comment from one of the participants. It was just a private conversation between us. She told me she worked for a company, or knew of a company that was looking to hire. They said they took surveys and that sometimes the sheets came in incomplete. And what did I think about a job where I would insure that the forms were completed?

I pictured a company that was sending forms to the employees to find out what they could do to improve the job environment. And I figured that the job involved Christmas treeing the empty holes. I told her, "Sure, I can be creative."

But the look she gave me told me I got it all wrong. I think she sized me up and decided not to give me more details.

She later became a commissioner for the City. So, yeah. Trust no one.

aggiesal

(8,963 posts)
16. Ballots used to be counted at the precinct prior to delivery to the ROV ...
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:50 PM
Feb 2019

The results of that counting was posted at the precinct for the next X number of days, sometimes
1 day, other times 7 days.

When they were counted at the precinct, the counting for all precincts was completed by 1am (about 5-6 hours to do all the counting).
In San Diego County, we have close to 2000 precincts, but only about 30 tabulators.

We had about 2000 sets of poll workers, finishing around 1am., while 30 tabulators don't finish until 7am the next morning.

When the tabulators are used, no counting is done at the precinct, so no results are displayed. We have to wait till they are displayed through the websites and if you're one of the precinct that don't get counted until 7am the following morning, well that's too bad.

Ballots should be counted at the precinct, then the tabulator. If there are any discrepancies between hand count and tabulator count, it will be identified at this stage.

In either case, when the ballots are placed in the delivery box, the lid is sealed with labels that display a different color if they are tampered with. Labels are not always placed in the correct location, and as we've seen in Wisconsin, ballots appear in the oddest places.

Baitball Blogger

(46,785 posts)
23. It's a slow agonizing forensic audit that we're doing now.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:09 PM
Feb 2019

And you can bet that there are people who knew where they could exploit the process.

aggiesal

(8,963 posts)
28. If they are done purely by allowing the machines to count the ballots,
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:35 PM
Feb 2019

there is no transparency on how they left the precinct.
Once they are counted through the machines, there is no transparency in the ballots.

The ballots are never hand counted unless a recount is ordered
The candidate that requested the recount has to pay for the recount.

While we see Riverside County charge $1 per ballot to recount, San Diego County
was charging some ridiculous amount like $10 per ballot to recount.

This was done to discourage hand counting the ballots. Too expensive!

Once in the system, totals can be intercepted and modified before being delivered
to the states tabulator.
This is the man-in-the-middle method that was done in Ohio in 2004 against Kerry.
Electronic totals heading to Columbus were rerouted to a server in Kentucky where
figures were modified and you'd see Kerry up by 10,000 votes within a minute be
down 20,000 votes, completely in-explainable.

Baitball Blogger

(46,785 posts)
29. Looks like we're finally going to get answers.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:42 PM
Feb 2019

I hate the idea that one day we'll learn that we had three Democratic candidates robbed of their rightful place in the oval office:

Gore, Kerry and Clinton.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
30. That would take more space than most precincts have
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:48 PM
Feb 2019

At least in my area that uses schools, churches, residential, buildings, the library, and the county office building.

diva77

(7,686 posts)
33. +1,000,000 THIS!!! This is STILL the gold standard for election integrity. All the technology
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 05:01 PM
Feb 2019

that has been added has been justified by fabricated crises -- just like the current fabricated national emergency.

uponit7771

(90,371 posts)
10. The hack would happen further up the process chain and where there's the least amount of security
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:41 PM
Feb 2019

A hacker worth their salt would hack to the most effetive, least secure and harder to get caught piece of equipment.

We already know those are voter roles for the states

MurrayDelph

(5,305 posts)
6. We have 100% paper ballots
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:55 PM
Feb 2019

and vote by mail in Oregon (and nearby Washington). The only fraud in recent history was a small-town clerk, who was caught filling in unvoted offices for the Republican candidates.

She should be getting out this year.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
9. Yes Indeed
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:40 PM
Feb 2019

Again, paper ballots with top flite independent counters all on video tape. Strict Custody security from collection through counting and tabulation.

Do this and then get the remaining States we need to ditch the Republicans best friend, the Ridiculous Electoral College.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,180 posts)
11. Now this is brought up?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:43 PM
Feb 2019

I'm not blaming Harris, I'm blaming the whole party. Throw Sanders in there too for all I care. Obviously R's aren't complaining. I'll never understand why Democrats have not been shouting this talking point from the roof tops for not only 2 years but 20 years.

And this tweet will as well disappear into the morass. Even though this issue is at the very heart of having a fair and legitimate democracy. I just don't get it.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
21. This is a state government issue. And a district issue.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:56 PM
Feb 2019

But not a party issue.

Just like voter suppression... it just happens to benefit one party more than another.

However, it's not just the ballots. Russia hacked into voter databases. If you can remove people from the rolls, then you have prevented them from voting no matter if it's paper or machine. And it's much more efficient.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,180 posts)
25. The fact that it benefits one party over the other is a pretty good reason to bring it up.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:15 PM
Feb 2019

Especially for the losing party.

Yes, its only one of the tangents of GOP cheating. But it is important none the less to address. And it may be a State issue for implementation, but it is of national interest in securing a fair vote for the leaders of the country.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
31. We need it to be made a priority by law enforcement at a national level
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:39 PM
Feb 2019

then it becomes a security issue, not just a party issue.

Why do you think that Trump is saying that it's not a security issue?

LiberalLovinLug

(14,180 posts)
32. You are right, it is a national security issue.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:57 PM
Feb 2019

And raising it to that level of concern by Democrats, I do not see happening. Which is puzzling and annoying. It will never be taken seriously by law enforcement if both parties remain mum on the topic. I'm glad Harris has at least brought it up again, but its far and few between that we hear about it, and it should have been raised any chance they could for years now.

We are already feeling the whirlpool effect. They cheat, because of no paper ballots. They gain seats. They enact even more regressive voting laws, perhaps even "fine tune" their machines even more for the next election, with the exclusive oversight powers. Next election, surprise!...they win again. And each successive time they have bigger and bigger majorities to enact even more roadblocks to fair elections. And down we go into the whirlpool, each time we are deeper, and its getting harder to swim back out. I just don't see the seriousness of the danger being equaled by the response of Dem guests on news shows or press conferences.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
36. I see it happening with Democrats, and they are still being called partisan
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 05:57 PM
Feb 2019
That partisan divide on basic cybersecurity questions is a troubling signal that government’s handling of an issue officials have called a greater threat than terrorism will be hampered by the sort of partisan bickering that has bedeviled health care, immigration and other topics, experts said.

A whopping 87 percent of Democrats believe a hostile power will tamper with U.S. elections compared with 66 percent of Republicans. And just 47 percent of Democrats believe the U.S. government is prepared to deal with a major cyberattack according to Pew, compared with 61 percent of Republicans.

It’s really strange that election security is becoming a partisan issue, but it is,” Peter Singer, a senior fellow at the New America think tank who has written extensively about cybersecurity, told me.

The partisan divide isn’t just clear in opinion polling: Democrats are turning election security into a top-tier policy issue. Singer pointed to the new House Democratic majority’s decision to include a lengthy section on election security in its first piece of major legislation, the For the People Act, which also tackled issues such as voter access and campaign finance restructuring, which were aimed squarely at jabbing Republicans.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/the-cybersecurity-202/2019/01/10/the-cybersecurity-202-democrats-are-more-concerned-about-election-security-than-republicans-survey-finds/5c3636661b326b66fc5a1bf3/

I hope that clarifies what you have been missing.

in2herbs

(2,947 posts)
13. This may be a little off topic but AZ is considering requiring that all early mail in ballots be
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:43 PM
Feb 2019

mailed. I am an early mail in voter but return my ballot to the voting precinct where I personally deposit my ballot into the AZ machine which is locked to prevent tampering. I don't trust the USPS with something as important as my vote.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
19. Paper in California. Vote by mail, you keep a coded stub.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:55 PM
Feb 2019

Then you check online to see if your stub number has been properly counted.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
22. The problem is also voter databases. Those can't be transferred to paper.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:58 PM
Feb 2019

If someone hacks in and removes you from the registered voter list, then it doesn't matter what ballot you use, you aren't voting.

That's a far more efficient way to steal an election.

 

Fuzzpope

(602 posts)
26. I wish a democratic candidate
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:17 PM
Feb 2019

Or elected official would speak plainly and openly to the fact that *every* single piece of digital hardware employed in our nation's election cycles is owned and operated by Republican partisans.

How this brazen, integrity- smashing reality hasn't been exposed to the public and neutralized is a deep concern.

Why have no democrats raised this alarming fact??

CaptainTruth

(6,621 posts)
27. Don't forget those paper ballots are counted & the results are stored in an electronic file.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:23 PM
Feb 2019

The GOP has been caught changing the totals in those files (see Ohio 2004 for a perfect example).

Paper ballots won't solve everything.


New Court Filing Reveals How the 2004 Ohio Presidential Election Was Hacked

[link:https://truthout.org/articles/new-court-filing-reveals-how-the-2004-ohio-presidential-election-was-hacked/|

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