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guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 12:32 PM Feb 2019

Report: Warren Wants Native Americans Included in Slavery Reparations

From the article:

The Hill is reporting this morning that Democratic presidential candidate Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts has announced that Native Americans would be part of her plan to provide reparations for slavery and other past crimes committed by the U.S. government.


To read more:

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/02/23/report-warren-wants-native-americans-included-in-slavery-reparations.html

In my opinion, this is an excellent idea, but how can one expect that a country founded on slavery and land theft expect that the descendants of the founders, the beneficiaries of the theft, will give back what they took?
49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Report: Warren Wants Native Americans Included in Slavery Reparations (Original Post) guillaumeb Feb 2019 OP
This going to generate.some nasty tweets from you know who. marylandblue Feb 2019 #1
Is he orange? guillaumeb Feb 2019 #7
I badly want everything named for US cavalry leaders who led Indian massacres--esp Custer hlthe2b Feb 2019 #2
I agree that the attempt must be made. guillaumeb Feb 2019 #8
I don't think this is a good idea. manor321 Feb 2019 #3
I agree! nt USALiberal Feb 2019 #5
I agree too underpants Feb 2019 #6
Bad idea all around. TheCowsCameHome Feb 2019 #9
How can the crimes be atoned for? guillaumeb Feb 2019 #11
Totally agree with you! democratisphere Feb 2019 #26
I also agree. smirkymonkey Feb 2019 #40
I disagree. jcmaine72 Feb 2019 #44
It's a terrible idea considering the impossibility of determining recipients Amishman Feb 2019 #45
Some Native Americans held black slaves themselves. What does that mean for them? allgood33 Feb 2019 #4
Does this excuse the genocide that founded this country? eom guillaumeb Feb 2019 #12
Many tribes sheltered former slaves as well.... hlthe2b Feb 2019 #14
And soem sheltered them n/t malaise Feb 2019 #21
Some blacks owned slaves. It get complicated. Sneederbunk Feb 2019 #27
I think this is not a good idea. This will excite Trumps base and Republicans. nt Autumn Feb 2019 #10
Trump will use anything that the Democrats say to excite his base. guillaumeb Feb 2019 #13
His base might be around 35%, but the Republicans will also use it to get their voters out. nt Autumn Feb 2019 #15
And this might also excite the Democratic base. eom guillaumeb Feb 2019 #35
I disagree. Autumn Feb 2019 #38
Why is she so obsessed with this? BlueintheSTL Feb 2019 #16
She doubled down and it is not going to end well for her Runningdawg Feb 2019 #25
This is an acknowledgement of the true history of the US. guillaumeb Feb 2019 #36
Those casinos should have been reparations, Baitball Blogger Feb 2019 #17
Nope leftofcool Feb 2019 #29
That's what they might be today, Baitball Blogger Feb 2019 #30
Here is one source: Baitball Blogger Feb 2019 #31
Any candidate who espouses Reparations will be off my support list for the Primaries brooklynite Feb 2019 #18
Same here. LuvNewcastle Feb 2019 #42
The whole reparations discussion is pointless. Adrahil Feb 2019 #19
There are many ways to address systemic racism. guillaumeb Feb 2019 #37
Exactly. smirkymonkey Feb 2019 #41
I love Elizabeth but nevergiveup Feb 2019 #20
Barack Obama had the right idea on reparations BeyondGeography Feb 2019 #22
Courageous. At least she won't lose her senate seat. nt oasis Feb 2019 #23
This'll likely fade away given the speed at which our news cycle moves padah513 Feb 2019 #24
All I see in this report is that Warren said Native Americans should be included in any discussion dameatball Feb 2019 #28
This is a dumb issue to run on calguy Feb 2019 #32
Agreed. Harris has backed the reparations issue as well madville Feb 2019 #33
Not unreasonable Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2019 #34
Who would pay for this? Generic Brad Feb 2019 #39
All white Americans, whether they're directly descended from slave owners or not... jcmaine72 Feb 2019 #43
Are you suggesting a surtax on anyone who is white? MichMan Feb 2019 #46
No. Not at all. jcmaine72 Feb 2019 #47
Very well said in both responses. guillaumeb Feb 2019 #49
A nation that sends nearly 1 trillion a year on war related items guillaumeb Feb 2019 #48

hlthe2b

(102,575 posts)
2. I badly want everything named for US cavalry leaders who led Indian massacres--esp Custer
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 12:40 PM
Feb 2019

renamed for the Native peoples who lived and died there. Likewise, I want a full review of treaties that were ignored, yet "technically" remain in effect. If there are remedies that can be made, they should.

Granted, we can never make things right for Native Americans or the descendants of slaves, nor any Americans who, as a class, were treated horribly, but we can make an attempt.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
8. I agree that the attempt must be made.
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 12:48 PM
Feb 2019

And history should reflect the reality of what happened, rather than an evasion of the genocide and slavery that founded the country.

 

manor321

(3,344 posts)
3. I don't think this is a good idea.
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 12:41 PM
Feb 2019

Fundamentally I don't think reparations are a good idea. I oppose them. In addition, this will literally move large numbers of white people to show up to vote for Trump.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
11. How can the crimes be atoned for?
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 12:49 PM
Feb 2019

How can the theft and murder be resolved?


Should there be a statute of limitations for genocide?

jcmaine72

(1,773 posts)
44. I disagree.
Mon Feb 25, 2019, 06:44 AM
Feb 2019

I believe reparations are inevitable. The sooner we address and ameliorate these historical injustices the sooner we can move forward as one nation. The people that are most vehement in their opposition to the very idea of reparations are, by and large, people who won't vote for a Democratic candidate anyway, so why cater to them? There's no reasoning with the willfully ignorant and hateful.

I'm not the biggest fan of Warren, but at least she is demonstrating early on the sort of moral courage I want in the Democratic nominee.

Amishman

(5,559 posts)
45. It's a terrible idea considering the impossibility of determining recipients
Mon Feb 25, 2019, 07:04 AM
Feb 2019

Who gets benefits?

Person A is black. He was adopted and has no knowledge of who his biological parents are and cannot determine if his ancestors were slaves or not. Does he receive benefits?

Person B is Hispanic. She has done extensive genealogical research and identified an ancestor 8 generations removed who was a slave. Her 23 and me shows less than 1% African. Does she receive benefits?

Person C is black, his parents came to the US from Nigeria in the 70s. Does he receive benefits?

Person D is black and his ancestors were slaves in Haiti. Does he receive benefits?

Person E is black and her family tells stories of being decended from slaves. She is only able to trace her family history back to the 1880s, so she cannot prove it though it is likely. Does she receive benefits?

The amount of gray areas and room for scamming and exploitation would be immense. Not to mention the question of how to fund it.

 

BlueintheSTL

(135 posts)
16. Why is she so obsessed with this?
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 01:13 PM
Feb 2019

This quit frankly very troubling. She really needs to knock it off. It is getting old.

Runningdawg

(4,533 posts)
25. She doubled down and it is not going to end well for her
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 01:55 PM
Feb 2019

The only way she can possibly be of use in the race is to draw fire from Trump and his base so that they spend less time trolling the other candidates.

Baitball Blogger

(46,785 posts)
17. Those casinos should have been reparations,
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 01:15 PM
Feb 2019

but the Indians were exploited with those as well.

What a mess.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
29. Nope
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 02:14 PM
Feb 2019

Casinos were not, should not and have never been about reparations. Casinos are built on Tribal lands for the specific Tribe and by the specific Tribe. They are run, and owned by Tribes and they give hiring preferences to certified Tribal members and they make a fucking buttload of money for the Tribe. Native Americans are in no way exploited by their own casinos. Those casinos pay for health care services, scholarships for their youth to universities and other things. Oh and, guess who spends 97% of the money in those casinos? Stupid white people.

Baitball Blogger

(46,785 posts)
30. That's what they might be today,
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 02:19 PM
Feb 2019

but that's not how it began. That's not the history. They were exploited.

Baitball Blogger

(46,785 posts)
31. Here is one source:
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 02:24 PM
Feb 2019
https://newsmaven.io/indiancountrytoday/archive/the-myth-of-indian-casino-riches-3H8eP-wHX0Wz0H4WnQjwjA/

And it wasn't but ten years ago that I read an article about a young woman within a tribe that reported that the casinos were not being operated by tribal members. She led a movement to take back her casino.

brooklynite

(95,048 posts)
18. Any candidate who espouses Reparations will be off my support list for the Primaries
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 01:18 PM
Feb 2019

My fundamental question is: can you win an election? Advocating for Reparations is a clearly stated "no".

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
19. The whole reparations discussion is pointless.
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 01:28 PM
Feb 2019

It's a disaster waiting to happen.

We should be focusing on other ways of countering systemic racism.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
37. There are many ways to address systemic racism.
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 10:10 PM
Feb 2019

And we must also address a distorted history that overlooks what actually happened, and who benefitted.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
41. Exactly.
Mon Feb 25, 2019, 12:34 AM
Feb 2019

I want to see some reparations in the form of more support in African-American communities, but her idea of reparations is a losing proposition. It is not popular with republicans or Democrats.

nevergiveup

(4,772 posts)
20. I love Elizabeth but
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 01:28 PM
Feb 2019

am astonished she is going there. She and her advisers need a reality index adjustment. Politically it is suicidal. I wish so much it wasn't but it is. In every interview for the next many months she will be confronted with this. The press will be relentless. She just politically dug herself another hole.

BeyondGeography

(39,398 posts)
22. Barack Obama had the right idea on reparations
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 01:33 PM
Feb 2019

In a word, no. Invest in communities, fight discrimination, stay far away from the word, ‘reparations.’

padah513

(2,516 posts)
24. This'll likely fade away given the speed at which our news cycle moves
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 01:46 PM
Feb 2019

But even if it doesn't I think it's a bad idea. It's a wedge issue. Tucker Carlson already did a segment on it and Fox News will beat it like a drum. Just a matter of time before the tweets start. Health Care, jobs, education, and the environment. Kitchen table issues should be the mantra for 2020. We can discuss other issues after we win the WH and Senate back. Why do we always have to give republicans and the media something to beat us over the head with? It's just sloppy.

dameatball

(7,411 posts)
28. All I see in this report is that Warren said Native Americans should be included in any discussion
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 02:13 PM
Feb 2019

about reparations. Nowhere does it say she has presented a plan for reparations. (Nor does it say she won't present a plan). What it does say is she will introduce a bill against housing discrimination. If she has previously presented an actual plan regarding reparations then I will stand corrected. But that is not what this report says. However, those of you who have already mentioned the right wing talking points on the subject are absolutely correct.

madville

(7,413 posts)
33. Agreed. Harris has backed the reparations issue as well
Sun Feb 24, 2019, 03:09 PM
Feb 2019

Their advisors are either idiots or ineffective.

Generic Brad

(14,276 posts)
39. Who would pay for this?
Mon Feb 25, 2019, 12:18 AM
Feb 2019

My family came here long after slavery ended. Would my wife and I be obligated to chip in?

jcmaine72

(1,773 posts)
43. All white Americans, whether they're directly descended from slave owners or not...
Mon Feb 25, 2019, 06:29 AM
Feb 2019

...have benefited from both African slavery and the genocide of the indigenous population almost beyond measure. It is precisely those two elements early in our nation's history that helped transform it into the prosperous, spacious nation that would eventually attract millions of additional European immigrants.

In addition, the continued exploitation and oppression of these groups (and others) ensured that subsequent waves of European immigrants would benefit from their exclusion.

Sorry, but this is a legacy of hate and exploitation that no white American can exclude themselves from, whether their ancestors arrived here from Europe 500 years ago or 50. Sooner or later, whether we like it or not, we're going to have to accept responsibility for what has happened and agree to pay a little more and expect a little less than the aforementioned groups especially.

It's the only decent thing to do.

jcmaine72

(1,773 posts)
47. No. Not at all.
Mon Feb 25, 2019, 09:04 AM
Feb 2019

Reparations should take the form of exceedingly generous tax breaks for those who are able to work, a minimum income guarantee for those who can't, and free education. A long overdue reduction in our criminality bloated military budget could pay for it all, and then some.

White Americans won't have to pay any more in taxes than they're already paying. They just won't be eligible for any of the aforementioned entitlements.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
48. A nation that sends nearly 1 trillion a year on war related items
Mon Feb 25, 2019, 08:34 PM
Feb 2019

can afford reparations. And many who benefitted directly are among the rich today.

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