General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNo impeachment now. Concentrate on keeping, or increasing the House, and perhaps
flipping the Senate. And, of course, kicking him out to the curb.
But if, worse comes to worse and he gets re-elected, then, on Jan, 2, or as soon as the new Congress convene, start impeachment proceeding. This way we don't need to worry about energizing his supporters.
Just a suggestion.
Irishxs
(622 posts)now in 2020, theyre afraid to admit they wont .
sinkingfeeling
(51,501 posts)rustydog
(9,186 posts)The constitution is being "Pussy-Grabbed" by Trump and his enabling GOP. The Constitution calls for impeachment for "High crimes and misdemeanors." Well, obstruction is a crime, collusion with a foreign government to affect the election is a crime.
Impeachment must start with formal investigations. It does not matter that the Democrats fear Republican-controlled Senate won't convict...THAT alone is a reason to impeach, then show the world how the GOP is pissing on the Constitution just to stay in power.
marlakay
(11,545 posts)Towards the end we got political, I think we both didnt want to get depressed.
She says no on impeachment concentrate on election and I said if we dont impeach its like telling everybody they can be king as president and get away with murder. Its like saying laws be damned.
We went back and forth, I see her point, she saw mine.
I said why cant we do both and she said ok maybe.
I found it funny she quoted a poll on her side I quoted one on my side.
Crazy if we cant even agree on same side what do we have?
C_U_L8R
(45,047 posts)No mercy for this creep.
unblock
(52,515 posts)is winning the presidential election.
If he gets another term, we're very likely losing seats in the house and guaranteed not to win the senate.
Best way to pick up the most seats is by winning the White House.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,720 posts)Look at how much damage has been done to the separation of powers in just the past month.
If Warren can put country before party, and her shot at the White House at "risk" in order to protect the Rule Of Law, so can the rest of the Dems.
Xolodno
(6,415 posts)...with that said, this isn't about a blow job. And makes Nixon look like an novice.
But this could have a blow back effect, so I agree with you. Let's hold/gain in the House, retake the Senate and grab the Presidency.
Impeachment proceedings took forever on Clinton...and they'll take even longer with Trump. The GOP wants impeachment proceedings because they think they can control the narrative, lets not give it to them.
Yes, there is a danger that we could lose and you can kiss impeachment goodbye. But, with that said, we could impeach today, and he won't be convicted in the Senate. So either way we lose.
So the question becomes;
A. Take the risk on impeachment proceedings, knowing you have a no chance of winning, and hope that there is no blow black?
B. Hold off on impeachment and every so often drop a dead body out in public, maximizing damage to Trump?
I prefer option B. It involves less risk and we know we're already going to fail at option A.
question everything
(47,616 posts)in the same sentence) were on their second term, so "alienating the base" was not a major concern.
Poiuyt
(18,135 posts)It's true that his favorability went up temporarily, but then went back down to what it had been before (which was still pretty high). The GOP went on to take control of the White House right after his impeachment.
Clinton saw both the Senate and House fall to the GOP in 1994, known as the Republican Revolution. And despite winning the election, they held in 1996.
As for the impeachment....
1998 mid-term elections
In the midst of the impeachment hearings, Clinton's approval ratings rose above 65 percent. Polls showed that many in the public did not condone Clinton's relations with Lewinsky, but they did not believe that it was grounds for removal from office. Defying predictions of congressional losses, the Democrats picked up five seats in the House of Representatives; neither party gained seats in the Senate.[140] The election represented the first time since 1934 that the party holding the presidency picked up seats in a mid-term election.[141] Gingrich resigned from office after the elections, and he was succeeded as Speaker of the House by Dennis Hastert.[140]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Bill_Clinton#Elections_during_the_Clinton_presidency
Impeachment backfired. nuff said.
Poiuyt
(18,135 posts)That was before Clinton's impeachment.
It's true that Newt Gingrich did step down and Democrats did pick up some House seats. Maybe the impeachment damaged Republicans because they started the procedure during the stretch run of the election, maybe America could see that it was a frivolous undertaking. But consider this:
But consider what followed.
First, the Republicans went on to take or hold the White House in three of the next five presidential elections including the 2016 race between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.
And while Democrats did gain a handful of House seats in midterm elections in 1998, the Republicans maintained control for eight more years, until disapproval of the Iraq war finally tipped Congress to the Democrats in 2006.
On the Senate side in 1998, the Republicans maintained their 55-45 majority. With the exception of a 17-month window in 2002 and 2003, Republicans controlled the Senate until 2006. In short, the Republican wave of 1994 endured for nearly a decade after the failed impeachment.
Its true that Mr. Clinton was not removed from office, but Republicans used the fact of his impeachment as a cudgel first against his vice president, Al Gore, and later against his wife. While its impact cant be quantified, it sure didnt help either in their election bids.
Finally, and most important, the very myth that the 1998 impeachment hurt Republicans protects them today, when pressure to move against Mr. Trump is met with concerns about the political fallout. Clearly, we need to reconsider that myth.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/opinion/clinton-impeachment-republicans-trump.html
Considering the fact that Republicans took over the presidency in the next election, I would hardly say that "impeachment backfired horrendously for the GOP." I stand by my statement.
Xolodno
(6,415 posts)And yes what happened prior to impeachment is relevant because you made this statement;
The GOP went on to take control of the White House right after his impeachment.
That is simply not factual. They already had control and were gunning for scandals and removal.
Next, Gore "lost" because he ran a crappy campaign and GWB had Karl Rove who happened to be on his game. Gore won the popular vote, but not the electoral college. He had several mis-steps that turned people off to him, sadly lower information voters, but none the less, critical mistakes, gaffs, etc. that brought him down to the level of George W. Bush.
For example;
-I invented the internet (granted he didn't say it, but he said enough for Rove to capitalize)
-Lock Box
-"sighing" at the first debate which turned people off
-Sounding like canned answers and unauthentic during the debates
-Not recognizing the effect of the right wing media.
etc.
Then of course you had Ralph Nader.
But by in far the largest mistake, Gore distanced himself from Clinton, despite having a good record and still polling above 50%.
In the case of John Kerry, Bush had the headwinds of 9/11 and the full gravity of the Iraq war wasn't realized yet. And of course, Rove's hit piece known as "swiftboating".
standingtall
(2,787 posts)impeach him. Would be the same thing if he gets reelected all over again. The reasons people are giving now will be repeated in 2021 and then again in 2023. He needs to be impeached or Democrats will do permanent damage to the legacy of the party.
standingtall
(2,787 posts)If we don't have the courage to impeach him. Where are we going to find the courage to do what is necessary to stop Trump,republicans and the russians from cheating to win again in 2020?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)We shouldn't impeach now, but continue building the case so that if/when we do impeach, even if the Senate doesn't convict, impeachment will have some teeth, meaning and short-term electoral and long-term historical impact.
And while this is happening on one track, we should also focus on taking back the WH and Senate and holding the House in 2020.
Quackers
(2,256 posts)He has crossed it. Enough is enough. It is time to act.
Cold War Spook
(1,279 posts)the Republicans will run on it. Trump totally innocent. Let the Republicans in the Senate acquit, then the Democrats can run on that. Get it all out in the open. Someone won't testify, hold in contempt and put in jail. Play hardball. Subpoena everyone. Not just those in the government, but everyone who knows anything about his business dealings while president. Subpoena all his books for Trump Tower and the rest. Keep him on the ropes. Keep everything transparent, let the public know everything. Keep it in the news right up to the election. Neither the Senate nor any government body can make the House vote before they are ready. Now it is time for me to go and hit the heavy bag for a while.
tritsofme
(17,449 posts)And even if we did, Im not sure what a token impeachment process accomplishes at that point, against a freshly re-elected Trump.
I generally agree with your first point, but the second doesnt make much sense.
uponit7771
(90,378 posts)Smackdown2019
(1,193 posts)The people voted in the Democratic Control to rid out the swamp rats and take back our country from the evils of Trumpism. Our House needs to do their job and frankly it seems they are doing their job with road blocks. If a push is given from the Nazi Dictatorship, we need to push our spearhead all the way to Stalingrad!
Also! We have the POWER now, 2021 we may not and wont if we fail to do our Constitutional job to uphold the laws.
So, "Damn the torpedoes, Full speed ahead" towards impeachment!