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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTaking the wrong lessons from past impeachments.
I'm not talking about Andrew Johnson-although thumbing his nose (did they do that back in the 1860's?) at Congress got him into hot water and should serve as some kind of lesson. No, I'm talking about Nixon and Clinton. What are the arguments against impeaching Trump? It might backfire politically on the Democrats and the Senate will never convict him, right? Leave it up to the voters in the next election. I think that's a misread of history.
Clinton's impeachment ended badly for the Republicans because it was improperly-motivated and ill-conceived. It was all over bullshit (pardon my language) and people saw it for the political attack that it was. That's why it backfired. Nixon, on the other hand, was a corrupt and power-hungry bastard. His situation is far more instructive. At first he tried to claim the investigation into him was just a political attack. But when the evidence came out, it was game over. His staunchest allies abandoned him in the face of the overwhelming case against him. It the end, it wasn't political, it was both a defense of our system of government and a moral judgement against a president who beleived he was above the law.
Trump is a corrupt power hungry bastard too, only he isn't half as smart as Nixon and is surrounded by a political B-team who couldn't pass the citizenship test that is administered to the immigrants they so loathe. The evidence that would come out against Trump in an impeachment investigation would put Nixon to shame.(and that includes all of the evil and corrupt stuff that Nixon did beyond Watergagte). If you believe that the evidence is there (and it sure looks like it is) and if you beleive in our system of government, then you've got to have faith that doing the right thing and impeaching Trump will end well. Despite what Trump says (in reality it's his only defense) this would not be just a political attack. This is not a Bill Clinton redux. This guy is corrupt and evil. And despite what you might think and your (well-founded) lack of faith in the Republicans in the Senate, our goverment needs to hold Trump accountable.
Despite their short-comings, not every Republican is Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell. Evidence is evidence and anybody who has been following along knows that there is a lot of it. Even Republicans can be swayed. And if they aren't, even in the face of a mountain of evidence, they are the ones who will pay the price. They'll look pretty stupid ignoring the laundry list of corrupt and treasonous behavior. Trump has been corrupt his entire life, getting elected president didn't cure him. He's got to go.
Doing the right thing counts for something, and it has to be done, even if it's hard. If the Democrats succeed, they've saved the republic. If they fail while trying to do the right thing, well so be it- we'll still be better off. 50 years from now, if the answer to the question "why didn't you impeach Trump when the evidence was right in front of you?" is "we were scared of the political blowback", that's going to sound awful weak. History always favors those who did what was right and what was just.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Thanks for the OP!
50 Shades Of Blue
(10,112 posts)spanone
(135,958 posts)Laxman
(2,419 posts)I always said "if I get voted out of office for doing the right thing that's O.K." Just as true today as it was then. If you do what's right, everything works out in the end.
FreepFryer
(7,077 posts)nor doomed to fail. But if it's simplified into a false binary (remove or not) the power of the Congress is weakened unnecessarily. Impeachment, as you argue, is far more complex (and potentially result-producing) than merely the question of removal. In fact, it's not even the only possible binary outcome (see: disqualification from future office, which requires only a simple majority vote in the Senate to accomplish).
wryter2000
(46,145 posts)It's a matter of how to get Trump out of office. Impeachment now with no conviction, when he'll have months and months to claim he's been exonerated (with a willing "news" media to amplify his message), will not get him out of office. Impeachment a year from now after months and months of hearings outlining all his crimes (not just the ones we're aware of now) will get him out of office.
"But that gives him a year to continue to ruin this country." Well, he's going to do that, anyway. I don't want to add another four years on top of that.
durablend
(7,469 posts)"Impeachment now with no conviction, when he'll have months and months to claim he's been exonerated (with a willing "news" media to amplify his message)"
In case you haven't noticed, he's already been doing that.
wryter2000
(46,145 posts)But it will once all investigations are over
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)gestures of contempt and I'm certain that the ancient Romans used nose-thumbing.
"Bullshit" is an acceptable pejorative term especially when discussing politics.
"Never apologize... it's a sign of weakness.", a John Wayne line in the movie She Wore A yellow Ribbon.
Impeachment's gonna happen. It's the legal remedy for corruption.
world wide wally
(21,762 posts)What if we don't impeach and then lose the election?
Will it be because voters see us as cowardly and not qualified to lead?... Don't be surprised.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)In what way?
ChoppinBroccoli
(3,787 posts)The OP lost me at that sentence. The impeachment even got Democrats to turn on THEMSELVES. Remember how Gore bent over backwards to distance himself from Clinton? Clinton creates the strongest economy in the history of TIME and Gore can't even beat a buffoon who could barely speak, an "oil man" who couldn't find oil in Texas, and a baseball owner who traded Sammy Sosa. Yeah, I'm sure the Republicans REALLY regretted that whole impeachment fiasco.
panfluteman
(2,075 posts)Is like comparing apples to oranges - the two couldn't be more different. With Clinton it was all about his lying about a consensual love affair and blow job - everyone knew it was nothing more than a political farce. With Trump it's about impeaching a guy who's a clear and present danger to our democracy, who is doing everything he can to wreck our Democratic Republic and set himself up as dictator. It's also about high treason and enlisting the help of a hostile foreign power to win the election too. The long list of Trump high crimes and misdemeanors also dwarfs that of Nixon several times over. With Trump, the vast majority of the American public knows that his removal from office is truly necessary.