More importantly we don't have a consensus on how to move forward yet.

I am however in favor of moving forward with impeachment hearings.

And Pelosi has already exposed herself in first saying she won’t impeach based on a small number of Democrats calling for it. Then she moved the goal post to an impossible distance (hint “ironclad”).

The bottom line is she doesn’t want to impeach.

The reality is she must.

I don't get it.

At this point, history demands The House move forward towards holding a criminal responsible for multiple cases of obstruction.

Bernie Sanders is not for it.

For instant relief from confusion about impeachment, read this:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212145248

Bernie is for impeachment I see. Happy to have been wrong.

I was merely pointing out that we have yet to reach a consensus.

But we don't need an ironclad case. We need Republican votes.

And I guarantee you it’s not for waiting for an “iron clad” case before beginning impeachment.

the Democratic party?

Not impeaching, specifically not starting the formal impeachment process with hearings for more discovery, would be a disaster for the Democratic party in the 2020 elections; the GOP would be stronger and excessively bold, the Democrats would be weaker and lose votes within the party and from independents and crossover.

This is blatantly obvious and those among us that do not see this fact are in some sort of bubble of denial. The general attitude is the root of recent Democratic election failures.

I mean I talk to candidates and Electeds about what OTHER voters talk to them about.

I know two House members (FL and NH) who held multiple Town Halls during Easter recess. None of the voters asked them about Trump/Russia/Impeachment/Mueller. They asked (like they asked in the runup to the 2018 Election) about Health Care, Jobs and Education Costs.

in Congress then the Health Care, jobs (especially green jobs), and Education policies of the Democratic party will be figments of the impossible and the Trump nightmare will not only continue but expand.

She better care about what OTHER Dems all across this country think, because she'll have a bunch of Dems sitting out the 2020 Elections. That's IF we have elections in 2020. My friends granddaughter told me on the phone yesterday, that if Pelosi takes them for granted (She belongs to a large African-American sorority, and they're political), she'll be doing it at her/Dems peril as in depressing our voter turnout.

And that's enough of a voting block to turn a House. Just saying....

As Dems we all all in this together. ALL Dem votes count.


However when you break down the data from last years Senatorial election in Alabama, AA women had a big hand in Roy Moore LOSING last year. I'm just pointing out that the young lady I spoke with also voiced deep concern about it seeming that Joe Biden wasn't into impeaching Fatso-in-chief. Now, when it comes down to it, she told me that she and many of her fellow sisters will support and vote for whoever's ultimately wins the Dem nomination, but she said she couldn't say for certainty what her other pledges in other sororities would do because they've voiced their displeasure about whose implying that instead of impeachment Biden's on the "Let's vote him out" train. And all of them cringed she said when Biden said that Pence and Cheney were good guys--all of this concern on top of ALL of them as AA women still side-eying Biden over how things went down with Anita Hill (All of their Mothers who were college students told them how that fiasco went down, and of course they all researched it for themselves). She told me that more than half of the other sorority sisters on campus stan hard for Liz Warren she said because they see a person in her whose super detailed, intelligent, has many other ideas that they love and most importantly Warren has a real student loan debt reduction plan (Which they all love of course), so they plan on voting for her in the primaries because these young ladies she said want impeachment inquiries to begin like yesterday. She said all of her sorority sisters who've met Warren came away feeling a real bond and sisterhood and bond with Warren.

Dems better be careful not to make it seem like they're taking AA women and AA voters for granted per this friends granddaughter whose 20 years old and politically/socially very active.

Women of color want 2020 Democrats to work for their vote.

They’re a key voting bloc — and they want candidates to present policies that will help them and their communities.

By P.R. Lockhart May 2, 2019, 12:10pm EDT

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/5/2/18525536/women-of-color-voters-2020-outreach-policy-democrats

As for some Latino Voters:

The midterms minute: Democrats face challenges with Latino voters

Democratic struggles with Latinos
Despite Trump’s harshly anti-immigrant rhetoric, Democrats are facing challenges energizing Latino voters. NBC News reports that Democrats are struggling in heavily Hispanic districts and facing low levels of voter engagement.

Why this matters. Polling indicates Latino voters favor Democrats by a three to one margin. If Latino turnout matched non-Latino turnout, it would be a huge advantage for Democrats. However, Latinos have long lagged other ethnic groups in turnout. In the 2014 midterms, only 27% of Latinos voted compared to 45% of white voters.

What races could this make a difference in? A huge swathe of races, particularly concentrated in the south-west and in Florida.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/15/the-midterms-minutes-democrats-latino-voters

Just to make a point? Which then keeps republicans in power.

That’s on a par with the childish threat to hold your breath till you turn blue.

that Democrats will win? What if not impeaching discourages millennials to not show up? Hillary lost because of Russian interference, but when push comes to shove, Hillary lost because we had a low turnout to vote for president.

It is a no-brainer that, even if the Senate does not convict, impeachment will help the Democratic party in the 2020 from bottom to top of election slate.

The Obama administration's failure to prosecute anybody for the 2008 financial collapse. This was a terrible mistake.

Now the D's refuse to even try to use their only real mechanism to bring Trump to justice for his crimes. More worried about polling numbers and how the media will frame it.

Tired of the chickenshit mentality.

If one gets away from the media and DU and talks to other Democrats in real life, virtually all are for aggressive pursuit of impeachment.

Most of the Democrats I talk to - other than hardcore Democratic activists - aren't all that focused on impeachment.

I think that will change and before not too long. But it is what it is.

And that is a lot of people, want impeachment

You need to face reality that it is a must-do or we face losing both morally and politically.

I doubt that your circle is representative of the entire Democratic party - any more than mine is.

coordinated liars on 1500 radio stations and fox to blow up a 5% rabid minority into 'popular' public sentiment and because the left ignores it corporate media can go along with it

...those two knowing the vote will end everything so they want that now.

The process will be death by 1000 cuts, investigations didn't help Clinton

That is how it is supposed to start.

But I want the process to run through, dotting each 'i' and crossing each 't' and putting little smiley faces in each 'o'. Make the evidence so absolutely clear-cut that it would be politically damaging to the repukes that a large segment of them will *have* to vote for conviction or face their own, and their party's, political demise.

In other words, finish the other ongoing investigations and get all of the damaging documents from him, his businesses, and his financial institutions and partners that show in stark black and white what a crook he is, and has always been, and that he is not nearly as wealthy as he has claimed to be. Don't leave any small opening for any type of defense against the factual evidence against him.

We’ve got one chance, it has to be the right time, with full weight behind it.

The sooner the better.

i think what nancy is waiting for is a crack in the senate.
she knows damn well that privately they all want him to go, or at least know the gravy train has to end.
she is waiting for someone, flake or corker, or romney, or any thug of "stature", to say it outloud like amash is doing now.

she needs either that, or for the stone wall to fall, and witnesses start to testify.
a michael cohen a week till august, and anyone still on the trump train should be tested for signs of electrical activity in the brain.

+1. Follow the goddamn money.

That's what I see too. She's waiting for the political capital that she knows she needs. Without it you just have a tit-for-tat sh**show. Which is GREAT for the media. For achieving goals and agenda ..? Not so much.

I think those that perceive "weakness" here are really off target. Those that think Pelosi "doesn't want to impeach" are also wearing blinders. I don't have any doubt that the Speaker would gut this man like a fish (in full public view) if she had the tools (evidence and testimony) available to do so. An iron-clad case that exposes corruption, criminal behavior and collusion to the American people is the goal. For those that cry, 'we have enough to start now." The goal here is not to beat the bush and cause a lot of noise .. it's to bag the elephant.

(One of the really UNFORTUNATE outcomes that came out of the Mueller report .. is that he DID appear to give the campaign a pass on collusion. Still can't figure how he came to that conclusion, but .. Truly unfortunate because direct cooperation with an adversarial foreign government it is one of the things that really WOULD change minds and shift opinions. Right?)

There were several factors:

Some avenues (counter intelligence and financial) were beyond the scope of the investigation.

Availability of witnesses

The willingness and ability of witnesses to answer questions clearly (if most a witness's responses are "I dont remember" it is impossible to determine the facts or details of an event)

Mueller did say toward the end of Volume I that a through FBI investigation may get better results

In the case of conspiracy (no such legal term "collusion&quot
It was that he decided he was innocent or guilty. He didn't have enough evidence to actually determine either.

The GOP will interpret anything less as proof of total Democratic impotence.

There was once a time when we thought Sarah Palin was the bottom of the GOP barrel. Trump should be a lesson to us that their barrel has no bottom. If we don't demonstrate a willingness to draw a red line, a point where we are willing to stand and fight regardless of the political calculations, the GOP will assume there is no line at all. And then Republican President Patrick Bateman and Vice President Richard Spencer will be next out of the barrel.

that not only is there no bottom, but even conviction in the Senate would not draw the line to stop the next dictator. All that next dictator would need to do is be sneakier than Trump. Trump is so transparent, his worst crime would be getting caught.

The next guy will be smarter. He will hide in shadows. He will get things done. He will keep his friends close and his enemies closer. Impeachment will not be an option because he will not leave an evidence trail to follow.

If I can see how to make that happen, you can bet all the ambitious psychopaths see it even better.

If he did not commit a crime, we would have said so. But we found no evidence that a crime was committed.

Whiskey-Tango-Alpha-Foxtrot?

No one is more deserving of impeachment than Trump! Every day he remains in office is another day that damage is done to this country. If he is not removed soon, there is no hope for a fair election.

Why would one think otherwise?



She knows way more than you and me combined, that's for sure.

Impeachment, we’d look like the ultimate fools.

Point is, I trust her too. When/if she has the votes, she’ll go for it.

Exactly.

Because win or lose we have to hold the law for everyone. If we let Trump slide what does that say to our court system and other presidents?

I wrote to both my senators today informing them of how I feel, didn’t bother with my congressman as he is republican Trumper to the max.

And when Nancy says low she means she only has 38 Congress people that will vote, that has to rise!!

It is the right thing to do because if we don’t act against this creepy jerk then what message does the future, if we have one, take from that.

This pitiful excuse for a human let alone where he is needs to be exposed for the slimy crook and con man he has been his entire adult life.

C’mon Nancy, quit being so obstinate about this !

.



.

He needed to be impeached! I've been waiting for well over 2 years! Impeach away!

What grounds on election night?

For lying that he had "no deal" with Russia while at the same time negotiations were ongoing for the Trump Tower Moscow.

For disseminating stolen Clinton campaign emails.

And that, and much more, all went down by election night.

Read Vol. I of the Mueller Report. Here: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/read-text-full-mueller-report-n994551

Or tacitly condone his crimes.

Pretty clear choice if you ask me.

Which, in fact, you did.

...as soon as possible.

The future of our Nation depends on it...

And the number is Small Only In Nancy's Mind....

But yeah, I say impeach the fucking traitor.

Been saying it for months.

i also wrote my dem congressman with the topic heading "IMPEACH"

Impeachment proper can wait.

If we don’t we can’t say we didn’t try to save our country and constitutional rule of law.

Please proceed!

& I'm thinking what the hell, hasn't he done enough? Its time to impeach but realistically the Senate won't follow through with it if it did pass the House but at least it will be on record.

Last edited Thu May 30, 2019, 12:32 PM - Edit history (1)

I will tell her this:

I don't want impeachment VOTING just yet.

But I DO want impeachment proceedings that stretch into 2020.

There's a lot of value in the public seeing the airing of Mueller's UNREDACTED evidence.

Hell, there'd even be a lot of value in the public seeing Justice John Roberts conduct a trial and airing the House's evidence and case in front of the Senate.

I think Speaker Pelosi would see what a damn good job the Democrats have done through Mueller to save this democracy. I think many in the Senate would be compelled to join us and convict.

The real drama is the Truth of it all. Americans will see it all clearly.

And so yes, I'm for impeachment.

IT'S THE CONSTITUTIONAL HILL SPEAKER PELOSI SHOULD WANT TO DIE ON.

If our political concerns trump principles we are little better than the corrupt republicans. Time to do what is right and risk the consequences.

Exactly how I look at it too.

What you said.

Representative and told him that impeachment process needs to start in the House. Now.

Start the fucking inquiry already.

Dirty laundry must be aired out in order to rid the stench.

1) It's good politics. We get all the damning evidence against Trump out on the table, in the plain light of day, and every Republican who continues to support Trump will be signing their own political death warrant. In Watergate, Senate Republicans were solidly on board with Nixon - until impeachment hearings started in the house. Then, Republican support began to peel off.

2) To worry about the political blowback and a potential surge or rebound in popularity if the Senate fails to convict is like comparing apples to oranges. Clinton was much more popular than Donald Trump, and the public knew that the whole impeachment effort against him was nothing more than a political farce cooked up by Republicans. But in Donald Trump we have someone who is doing all he can to destroy our democracy - and the great majority of the public knows it.

3) I believe Michael Cohen's testimony that, if Trump loses the election, he will not concede or give up power peacefully - it also fits in with everything we know about Donald Trump. Therefore, we should do our best to impeach him before the 2020 election goes into full gear - don't even give him a chance to really run.

4) We have to play hardball with Donald Trump and bring him to justice ASAP. It's the only thing that this bully understands, the only thing he respects. Until then, he will continue to ride roughshod over our democracy and continue to flout the rule of law. It's a race to the finish line - who will get there first? We may not have the time and luxury to go through the whole oversight and investigative process correctly, let alone perfectly - we have to save our embattled democracy ASAP.

Never mind how many of us have lived in this country our whole lives.

Never mind how many of us lived through the Nixon debacle.

Ah, let’s forget about Shrub and what he left us.

Never mind. The DUsplainers will tell us we need to suck it up and just deal with this utter awful excuse for a president.

...are they worse than Trump?

I mean, they must be. Because the only thing standing in the way of having the majority of the GOP-held senate (stand up gentlemen like Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham) from leaping at the chance to vote to kick Trump out of office, and paving the way for great glory of a Democratic President that Pence will be, are these evil -splainers.

Oh, and Speaker Pelosi too.

Whew! Thank you for explaining all this. Whenever Republicans do something bad, it's always nice to have a Democrat to blame it on.

when the one doing the DU-splaining misses the irony completely?

If we can win by removal it will take more public opinion than we currently have. The constitution, law and morality have nothing to do with the GOP

If we can win by winning elections we have to change public opinion.

If we can’t do either we should impeach because it is the right thing to do.

I have not given up hope yet on the first two. At some point we should do the third or history will call us moral cowards.

What would changing public opinion look like? First Democrats will be screaming. First the so called hot heads then the rest. Then independents and then some republicans.

I don’t advocate excessive patience but some. The fights over the subpoenas are the nearest predictor of whether the law will stand. But it will go to the supreme court and how long will that take and what will they decide?

Hearings to investigate impeachment, whether they are called that or inquiry or whatever should start by the fall. Maybe there could be some good tv

At the same time I want democrats to start calling for impeachment because that is what winning will look like.

Yes, hold hearings... but the administration is gonna stonewall, so Dems need to be prepared to recognize the coverup itself as an impeachable offense.

of their collective dereliction of duty at best, and obstruction at worst.

This will be a great civic lesson in how the US government brings the corrupt to justice.

Me me me me me!✋🏻

The Impeachment Power embedded in the US Constitution was MADE for Donald J. tRump. If not him, then who?

The sooner the better.

Way past time to take out the trash...

Theyre terrified of the 90's

Their responses today were pathetic and weak.

Just ask yourself, team leads, WWAOCD! Can't really go wrong there.

...from day one

DO IT NOW!

is forgetting that the election failed to keep him out of the White House. The founding fathers gave us a remedy and we must use it. Impeach him now.

I’m not sure what other logical solution there is.

His MAGATs won’t be able to save him and his appointees won’t stick with him to the end because they’ll be saving their own asses.