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White House says Trump will issue new rules to expand 'constitutional prayer' in public schools (Original Post) Demovictory9 Jan 2020 OP
He thinks he can overturn Supreme Court precedent The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #1
He's just picking a fight for fun... FarPoint Jan 2020 #35
It's already unconstitutional Cartoonist Jan 2020 #2
That isn't true. phleshdef Jan 2020 #10
There can be voluntary prayers and prayer meetings if conducted by students The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #24
Well, hopefully Trump will require schools to provide prayer rooms jberryhill Jan 2020 #28
Constitution? We don need no steenkin Constitution. Thomas Hurt Jan 2020 #3
What the hell is constitutional prayer? yonder Jan 2020 #4
Don't yah know that a Con edict overrules the malaise Jan 2020 #5
I think that's spelled Convict the Dick. yonder Jan 2020 #15
it's his mutterings dweller Jan 2020 #11
Students can already pray anytime they want. phleshdef Jan 2020 #6
His base will bluestarone Jan 2020 #7
I know. he cares nothing about religion... just thinks of things that make his base happy Demovictory9 Jan 2020 #9
EXACTLY bluestarone Jan 2020 #14
Amazing how we here bluestarone Jan 2020 #18
Says someone who goes to church once a year only for the photo op. llmart Jan 2020 #8
You think he can read? n/t PatrickforO Jan 2020 #32
He probably read all of the parts having to do with rape. Dagstead Bumwood Jan 2020 #47
I'll bet all that begetting and begotting got him all excited. llmart Jan 2020 #53
Shoring up his base at no cost. bluedigger Jan 2020 #12
Indeed, there are signs everywhere. Another one, no way in hell dewsgirl Jan 2020 #31
I used to lead my high school swim team in prayer before a meet. Aristus Jan 2020 #13
I have the feeling that this is aimed at women BigmanPigman Jan 2020 #16
I'm sure you're right. mahina Jan 2020 #45
Our Constitution, which art on parchment dpibel Jan 2020 #17
I went to elementary school in the 50s kskiska Jan 2020 #19
NYC public schools, 1960s: musette_sf Jan 2020 #26
I grew up in Connecticut and that was the routine there, also, kskiska Jan 2020 #59
Webster School, Waterbury, musette_sf Jan 2020 #62
Bible classes too, I read somewhere. Playing patty cake with the fundies. nt Grasswire2 Jan 2020 #20
Constitutional prayer. GaYellowDawg Jan 2020 #21
LOL. This is some major level pandering underpants Jan 2020 #22
Definitely. GaYellowDawg Jan 2020 #23
My question is WHY? He has them. underpants Jan 2020 #46
I think it was first used 2naSalit Jan 2020 #50
I look forward to spell casting 101 and a workshop on the proper way to sacrifice a chicken to a Loa Runningdawg Jan 2020 #25
A perpetually-burning Bunsen unit Codeine Jan 2020 #63
Perfect! Runningdawg Jan 2020 #65
You mean Turbineguy Jan 2020 #27
So which will be the official gov't approved Lord's Prayer? The Catholic or Protestant version? keithbvadu2 Jan 2020 #29
Say, I'm a little 'at sea' about just what 'constitutional prayer' even is. PatrickforO Jan 2020 #30
I may be wrong, Newest Reality Jan 2020 #34
Interesting. They are good at framing things, aren't they? PatrickforO Jan 2020 #36
Yes... Newest Reality Jan 2020 #38
Prayer Newest Reality Jan 2020 #33
You're ignoring its use as a political tool. mahina Jan 2020 #44
Between this, Ohiogal Jan 2020 #37
Matthew 6:5 and 6:6 safeinOhio Jan 2020 #39
This is my go to document exboyfil Jan 2020 #40
Good doc. mahina Jan 2020 #43
Jackpot! MissMillie Jan 2020 #55
WASTE OF TIME demtenjeep Jan 2020 #41
Pander Bear sighting mahina Jan 2020 #42
I think prayer should be included as part of any fiction course taught in school. stopbush Jan 2020 #48
un-American trump rockfordfile Jan 2020 #49
I should than be able to withhold my school taxes, on the cause that Historic NY Jan 2020 #51
'issue' ....king don spanone Jan 2020 #52
"Let's begin with a prayer in the name of Alla-" "NO NOT THAT WAY!" ck4829 Jan 2020 #54
Lord and Savior Satan exboyfil Jan 2020 #56
"Eris and the golden apple of discordianism and everyone is now a pope" ck4829 Jan 2020 #57
lol. no Wicca prayers either. Demovictory9 Jan 2020 #58
Drumpf could not recite a single prayer on his own Takket Jan 2020 #60
He's the last guy who should be lecturing anyone about morals and values. Initech Jan 2020 #61
The asshole will put up something blatantly unconstitutional Kentonio Jan 2020 #64

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,922 posts)
1. He thinks he can overturn Supreme Court precedent
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 05:52 PM
Jan 2020

and the Constitution itself with an executive order? He can’t, and fuck him.

FarPoint

(12,469 posts)
35. He's just picking a fight for fun...
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:49 PM
Jan 2020

Trump could care less but enjoys a nothing battle as a diversion.... rallies his minions...

Cartoonist

(7,323 posts)
2. It's already unconstitutional
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 05:52 PM
Jan 2020

No such thing as constitutional prayer. Except the silent type uttered to oneself.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
10. That isn't true.
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 05:59 PM
Jan 2020

Teachers and other authority figures can't force or influence kids to pray. There are student led prayer clubs in public schools all across the country, always have been. As long as its done during lunch or recess hours and is 100% voluntary, its totally legal. This lie that prayer was ever "banned" from schools is bullshit the right has been pushing for ages and it should be pushed back on every single time it comes up.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,922 posts)
24. There can be voluntary prayers and prayer meetings if conducted by students
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:27 PM
Jan 2020

on their own time and without the participation of adult staff, and if all such gatherings are permitted regardless of the religion, but this has been true for years. Prayers in a public school that are organized or sanctioned by the school itself or its staff are unconstitutional.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
28. Well, hopefully Trump will require schools to provide prayer rooms
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:35 PM
Jan 2020

...where students can do that.

This will principally benefit Muslim students.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
6. Students can already pray anytime they want.
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 05:56 PM
Jan 2020

I'm not religious anymore but I was during my high school years and we had a student ran prayer club that people could attend during lunch a few times a week. Its a lie that prayer was ever banned from schools. The only thing that changed us that adults working as a teacher or whatever can't force or influence any religious activity.

llmart

(15,559 posts)
8. Says someone who goes to church once a year only for the photo op.
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 05:58 PM
Jan 2020

Bet he's never read one word of the bible.

llmart

(15,559 posts)
53. I'll bet all that begetting and begotting got him all excited.
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 09:28 PM
Jan 2020

I'm embarrassed for our country that we have so many gullible people who fall for his crapola.

dewsgirl

(14,961 posts)
31. Indeed, there are signs everywhere. Another one, no way in hell
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:41 PM
Jan 2020

Matt Gaetz would have voted in favor of the military powers bill, if his constituents were not in support of it. His district(mine) is 70 percent military, Trump is losing their support.

Aristus

(66,481 posts)
13. I used to lead my high school swim team in prayer before a meet.
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:02 PM
Jan 2020

It was voluntary, entirely non-sectarian, and the coach absented himself from the locker room while we prayed.

No one ever said we couldn't

I've pushed back on the right-wing screeching about 'takin' Jesus outta the schools!..." ever since...

BigmanPigman

(51,646 posts)
16. I have the feeling that this is aimed at women
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:03 PM
Jan 2020

who are Independents in the suburbs. On a recent poll this group said 56% would definitely NOT vote for him.

kskiska

(27,048 posts)
19. I went to elementary school in the 50s
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:07 PM
Jan 2020

and every morning we had to recite the Pledge of Allegiance (I recall when the words "under God" was added), sing "America" (My country 'tis of thee) and recite the Lord's Prayer. I don't know why it wasn't an issue then. We had Jewish students, also.

musette_sf

(10,206 posts)
26. NYC public schools, 1960s:
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:34 PM
Jan 2020

Same as you describe: Pledge, then "America", then Lord's Prayer.

All the Jewish kids sat down after "America", then all the Catholic kids sat down after "..and deliver us from evil", then the Protestant kids were left standing for "For thine is the kingdom (etc)..."

I thought it was completely ridiculous, having moved from Connecticut where prayer was reserved for church.

kskiska

(27,048 posts)
59. I grew up in Connecticut and that was the routine there, also,
Mon Jan 13, 2020, 12:20 AM
Jan 2020

at least in the metropolitan area. Plus, at that time Connecticut had Blue Laws that prohibited birth control, though no one paid any attention to the laws.

musette_sf

(10,206 posts)
62. Webster School, Waterbury,
Mon Jan 13, 2020, 12:13 PM
Jan 2020

No prayer.

And my Mom went and got The Pill as soon as we moved to NYC.

GaYellowDawg

(4,451 posts)
23. Definitely.
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:19 PM
Jan 2020

Unfortunately, evangelicals fall for anything pandering to Christianity as long as it’s a Republican doing it.

underpants

(182,958 posts)
46. My question is WHY? He has them.
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 07:30 PM
Jan 2020

We don't know why he has them but they are in his back pocket. ✅ expand elsewhere.
I'll take a guess at this - the campaign is at his whim and will for those who adore him. Or maybe it trying to create momentum or expanding size.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
63. A perpetually-burning Bunsen unit
Mon Jan 13, 2020, 12:18 PM
Jan 2020

dedicated to the elemental purity of Zoroastrianism next to a statue of Baphomet should be fine as well.

keithbvadu2

(36,980 posts)
29. So which will be the official gov't approved Lord's Prayer? The Catholic or Protestant version?
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:36 PM
Jan 2020

So which will be the official gov't approved Lord's Prayer?

The Catholic or Protestant version?

Many Ps/Cs consider the other to be false Christians.

PatrickforO

(14,600 posts)
30. Say, I'm a little 'at sea' about just what 'constitutional prayer' even is.
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:40 PM
Jan 2020

Does anyone know what that is?

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
34. I may be wrong,
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:48 PM
Jan 2020

but it is newspeak. Notice the contradiction or inference there? That's a way to try to frame the issue of prayer in school.

One has a constitutional right to practice one's faith if does no harm to others. That's where the line is and should stay. Using the word constitutional with prayer is a crafty way to push this idea as a "right" to pray in school.

That needs to be pointed it, if that's the case. This is Ministry of Truth material.

PatrickforO

(14,600 posts)
36. Interesting. They are good at framing things, aren't they?
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:53 PM
Jan 2020

Putting that little new-speak Orwellian twist on it.

As dumb as the Republican base is, the people who are subjecting us to this sophisticated psyops effort, and others like it, are pretty smart. Evil. But smart.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
38. Yes...
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 07:01 PM
Jan 2020

And it is in the playbook. We have seen it before.

Maybe shrewd is a better word because the smart part seems to be limited to dastardly manipulations with the aim to control and exploit people. Otherwise, they are rather unintelligent when it comes to the policies they try to promote and that illustrates just how obsolete and irrelevant the Republicans have become.

Their back tires are stuck in the dark mud of the past and they just keep stepping on the gas and spinning their wheels in a panicked desperation, flinging mud on everyone. They just don't even seem to fit as a proper opposition party anymore and I think they know that. Even the demographics are against them as far as the future goes and, like dinosaurs, perhaps they will dig their way into extinction.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
33. Prayer
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:44 PM
Jan 2020

Prayer can be performed before and after school, at home, in church and in one's mind at anytime.

I see no other purpose for prayer in school other than to indoctrinate children, (peer pressure) or blur the lines between church and state. I see this country as fundamentally pluralistic and based on the common will for the common good in a secular fashion.

A school is not a church, temple, etc. I am not anti-religious by the way. I have respect for people's beliefs and faith.

Ohiogal

(32,122 posts)
37. Between this,
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 06:57 PM
Jan 2020

the Indiana law that mandates In God We Trust signs hung in every school classroom

and expanding taxpayer funded school vouchers so your kid can go to religion school on the taxpayer dime,

I’m getting SICK OF THIS SHIT!

safeinOhio

(32,737 posts)
39. Matthew 6:5 and 6:6
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 07:01 PM
Jan 2020

Jesus tells us to pray in silence in a closet and not in public.

I'm sure they have a loop hole or two.

exboyfil

(17,865 posts)
40. This is my go to document
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 07:06 PM
Jan 2020
https://www.religiousfreedomcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/teachersguide.pdf

Students have the right to pray individually or in
groups or to discuss their religious views with their
peers so long as they are not disruptive. Because the
Establishment Clause does not apply to purely private
speech, students enjoy the right to read their Bibles or
other scriptures, say grace before meals, pray before tests,
and discuss religion with other willing student listeners.
In the classroom, students have the right to pray quietly
except when required to be actively engaged in school
activities (e.g., students may not decide to pray just as a
teacher calls on them). In informal settings, such as the
cafeteria or in the halls, students may pray either audibly or silently, subject to the same rules of order as apply
to other speech in these locations. However, the right to
engage in voluntary prayer does not include, for example,
the right to have a captive audience listen or to compel
other students to participate.xii

MissMillie

(38,591 posts)
55. Jackpot!
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 09:47 PM
Jan 2020

I always said that as long as there are pop-quizzes, there will always be prayer in school.

Historic NY

(37,457 posts)
51. I should than be able to withhold my school taxes, on the cause that
Sun Jan 12, 2020, 09:16 PM
Jan 2020

I pay for a public school not a religious school.

Takket

(21,652 posts)
60. Drumpf could not recite a single prayer on his own
Mon Jan 13, 2020, 12:28 AM
Jan 2020

If challenged to do so. The irony

This is pandering. Nothing else

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
64. The asshole will put up something blatantly unconstitutional
Mon Jan 13, 2020, 01:52 PM
Jan 2020

Then when the SC knock it down, he’ll rail against the ‘godless’ justices and demand they be replaced with real Christian justices.

It’s just red meat for his evangelical supporters in the run up to the election. And the dumb bastards will love it.

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