General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWho tipped off Lev and Igor
to leave with one way tickets?
That's the name I want
randr
(12,417 posts)Botany
(70,614 posts)Bottom Line.
Dmytro Firtash was paying for all this Ukraine "rat fucking" of our democracy and he was
using Russian money which must have been approved of by Vlad Putin.
malaise
(269,219 posts)Very interesting
Then Dennis Donovan posted this
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212878315
Midnight Writer
(21,819 posts)I would like to see a list of who got the money, in addition to who it came from.
Not seeing the type of investigative reporting on this that I would expect.
Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)What is clear is he was subpoenaed by Congress, and indicated he was not going to comply, prosecutor Nicholas Roos told Manhattan federal Judge Paul Oetken.
On Oct. 8, a day after getting the subpoena, Fruman bought an $8,000 one-way ticket, and was arrested on the jet bridge on Oct. 9, said Roos who added that the observant Jew had oddly booked a flight for Yom Kippur, one of the holiest days on the Jewish calendar.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/us/politics/lev-parnas-igor-fruman-arrested-giuliani.html
Mr. Parnas and Mr. Fruman are witnesses in their impeachment inquiry, and Mr. Parnas had been scheduled to be questioned Thursday by investigators.
marble falls
(57,353 posts)You don't think the subpoena itself might have made him leave?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Yes, I think the subpoena was the reason they wanted to leave.
He got the subpoena, bought the ticket, met with Giuliani, and was arrested on the jetway to the plane.
Malaise's question is "who tipped them off?"
They weren't "tipped off". They were leaving the country to avoid testifying pursuant to having just been subpoenaed to do so.
marble falls
(57,353 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)I think you must be deeply misunderstanding what I am saying here.
I believe the subpoena was what motivated them to get out of Dodge and lay low someplace. Yes, the subpoena was motivation enough. That's correct.
They got the subpoenas and bought the tickets. Seems pretty obvious to me.
yardwork
(61,715 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Good God, people, how hard is this to understand....
The timeline is:
1. ADAM SCHIFF SUBPOENAED THEM
2. THEY BOUGHT TICKETS TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY
3. THEY MET WITH GIULIANI
4. THEY WERE ARRESTED AT THE AIRPORT
The OP asks "who tipped them off?"
They were "tipped off" by the fact that ADAM SCHIFF SUBPOENAED THEM TO TESTIFY.
It's not actually being "tipped off", but Malaise asked for the name of the person who notified them that they were of interest in the investigation.
That name would be the chair of the committee that subpoenaed them.
So, now you are asking me why I credit Adam Schiff for issuing the subpoenas that motivated them to attempt to leave?
WTF?
yardwork
(61,715 posts)Now I'm roaring with laughter.
This entire thread is comedy gold.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)marble falls
(57,353 posts)to Lev to tell get the hell out of Dodge to set him up for an arrest for fleeing.
Sorry. We agree once again. The Subpoena from Congress was all the motivation he needed.
You're too clever for us to follow you sometimes.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)But there are, of course, those who are going to take issue with the actual person responsible for pursuing Parnas criminally, and instead decide to believe in something more imaginative.
marble falls
(57,353 posts)sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
marble falls
(57,353 posts)like to think there are.
I can't believe I tried to read more into your comment than was there.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)I seem to recall reading that?
I remember that well
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)curiouser and curiouser
Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Why is that hard to understand?
They bought the tickets right after they got the subpoenas.
Then they met with Giuliani - after they already had their tickets.
Then they were arrested later that day.
Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)I guess you forgot, but glad to help out.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Go ahead and post a link to whatever it is you are referring to between the time they were subpoenaed (Oct 8) and bought the tickets (Oct 9).
They already had the tickets when they met with Giuliani.
So it appears the most likely reason why they were leaving was because they had just received the subpoenas and were going to avoid appearing.
Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)Or text. Or email. Who ordered that? Certainly not Schiff.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Are you referring to some phone records of some kind?
Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)That's what needs to be discovered here.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The prosecutor who is responsible for having Parnas arrested says that Parnas was trying to leave because he didn't want to testify in response to the subpoena. I've quoted him in this thread from the NYT article.
So, either the prosecutor who arrested Parnas is lying, because you know better, or for some reason there are phone, text and email records they don't have, despite seizing all of his devices when he was arrested.
I'm more interested to know who, in your opinion, got Parnas' own prosecutor to lie about it, than who tipped off Parnas.
Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)And then persuaded the prosecutor who indicted Parnas to lie about why he was leaving the country.
As with Epstein, wouldn't it have been easier to not indict him in the first place?
Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)Barr is in charge of the investigation as he was also in charge of keeping Jeff Epstein safe.
Got it now?
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)People seem to be attributing all kinds of malice to your simple observations.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)deep state.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Why is it difficult to grasp that Parnas and Fruman got the subpoenas on the 8th, bought tickets on the 9th, met with Giuliani on the 10th to plan their next meetup in Vienna, and then were arrested as they were leaving.
Did you expect them to travel together or something?
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,899 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)they were arrested late on the 9th, the day after they were subpoenaed. The news reports are dated the next day.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,434 posts)met with them. Both events happening on the same time line aren't incompatible.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Why buy round trip tickets if you are planning to come back on a private plane or don't have a fixed return date.
Do you suppose Lev was leaving his wife, too?
And if he was leaving his wife, don't you think she figured that out? Then why did she cooperate in hiding the extra million dollars from Firtash?
Piasladic
(1,160 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)if I'm not mistaken
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)All that means is that they weren't planning on coming back from Vienna, or had no immediate plans to come back.
They were frequently provided transportation on private jets. If they had a ride back already, they wouldn't buy round trip tickets.
Giuliani was ALSO planning to go to Vienna as well, and cancelled that trip.
But, if they were going to Vienna, and then going from Vienna to Ukraine, and planning to come back from some other place, why would they buy round trip tickets?
rainy
(6,095 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)How does that mean they were permanently leaving the country?
Hell, I left the country on a one way ticket just two years ago. Came back on one too. Since my trip started in Paris and ended in Geneva, there was no reason to buy a round trip ticket.
Zoonart
(11,887 posts)https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/01/billionaire-oil-magnate-funded-travel-by-lev-parnas/
Don't know who tipped him off though.
duforsure
(11,885 posts)Was Putin's intel feeding them information, and that they had been discovered? Does trump have moles installed in our intel agencies for Putin ?
2naSalit
(86,842 posts)colludyRudy. They met hours before the tickets were purchased.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It's interesting to see how misinformation filters through DU.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/01/giuliani-crony-igor-fruman-was-arrested-getting-on-vienna-bound-flight/
What is clear is he was subpoenaed by Congress, and indicated he was not going to comply, prosecutor Nicholas Roos told Manhattan federal Judge Paul Oetken.
On Oct. 8, a day after getting the subpoena, Fruman bought an $8,000 one-way ticket, and was arrested on the jet bridge on Oct. 9, said Roos who added that the observant Jew had oddly booked a flight for Yom Kippur, one of the holiest days on the Jewish calendar.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/us/politics/lev-parnas-igor-fruman-arrested-giuliani.html
Mr. Parnas and Mr. Fruman are witnesses in their impeachment inquiry, and Mr. Parnas had been scheduled to be questioned Thursday by investigators.
It's one thing to simply be ignorant of the timeline, such as the OP who is apparently unaware that there was no "tip off" - Parnas had been subpoenaed to testify to Congress, met with Giuliani, and decided to leave.
Of course, the investigation into the campaign finance charges long pre-dates that.
However, I would be interested to know where you heard that the tickets were purchased hours after meeting with Giuliani, since you apparently know something that nobody in the press does.
2naSalit
(86,842 posts)my error. I was going on the point, heard many times on RMS for one source, that the two had lunch less than 24 hrs before going to the airport where they were arrested.
My speculation was off, time for more coffee I guess.
Bev54
(10,082 posts)They do not understand Occam's Razor.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)They had been subpoenaed to testify to Congress the day before they decided to leave.
So, that's the name you are looking for.
brush
(53,924 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 17, 2020, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)
they? Maybe being tipped off they were being indicted was what scared them.
That could very easily have come through a meeting, a text or
phone call on the 8th or 9th. Ghouliani is the obvious one to
suspect, but it could be someone else.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If you think you are the subject of a sealed indictment, don't buy a ticket to leave the country on a commercial airline.
Just out of curiosity, have you flown abroad in, say, the last couple of years?
All that information you have to provide up front to get a boarding pass for a foreign flight is required for a couple of reasons. One of those reasons is to be able to prevent people from leaving who shouldn't be.
If you want to get out of the country because you think you might get nabbed, take a private flight or walk into Tijuana.
You know who else knows it would be a stupid thing to do? Giuliani.
brush
(53,924 posts)You didn't answer that.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Perhaps you missed the part where Trump said he didn't know who they are.
The White House did not object to their subpoenas.
So, I thought it was pretty obvious why they weren't claiming executive privilege excused them from appearing.
That would be pretty stupid, don't you think? For them to say "the White House won't let us" when the White House is saying they don't even know these guys?
I thought that was pretty obvious.
brush
(53,924 posts)that coming out on Rachel last night?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)That has been known ever since Dowd wrote that screwy letter to the Committee in comic sans.
So what.
Neither the White House nor these lunkheads claimed any excuse for not responding to the subpoenas.
Instead, they decided to leave the country.
Your observation has nothing to do with the fact that they did not object to the subpoenas, and Dowd did not communicate an objection to them either.
If they were going to challenge the subpoenas, they wouldn't have been getting on an airplane to Vienna. That's pretty fucking obvious.
brush
(53,924 posts)They are not in the same category as ANY of the people on whose behalf the White House has formally objected to subpoenas.
They did not object to the subpoenas.
Their lawyer did not object to the subpoenas.
The White House did not object to the subpoenas.
They got the subpoenas, they bought plane tickets, they met with Rudy, and they were going to get out of Dodge.
If anyone wanted to kill them, then Vienna or even Ukraine, would be as good a place as any.
Oh, oh, I know, the Trump Cabal is so inept, they can't manage to kill someone without getting them into a federal lockup first. Yah, go with that.
brush
(53,924 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 17, 2020, 09:22 PM - Edit history (1)
world wide wally
(21,757 posts)It will register with the American people anyway.
Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)onecaliberal
(32,931 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)Lev does not want to suffer the fate of Epstein, so it's good he is speaking out.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)By putting it all out there, Lev makes it pointless to try to silence him with Polonium or something.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)Who ordered that?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Adam Schiff's committe subpoenaed them. Then, they bought tickets to leave, because they did not want to testify. Then they met with Giuliani. Then, they were arrested at the airport.
Nobody said Schiff told them to leave.
It's obvious what motivated them to leave - i.e. the subpoenas that Schiff's committee issued to them, just before they bought the tickets.
Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)The subpoenas they had just received were an obvious and strong motivation for them to leave.
That is evidence of their motivation to leave.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)To take a month break from DU which I suspect will continue till we have a nominee.
Between the Trump is going down now/going to suspend the election/ declare Marshall(SP) law and other Jade Helm level CT stuff I needed a mental break. Plus the fishing is about to get good.
Hope to read your stuff here in a few months.
Thanks for hanging in.
MontanaMama
(23,356 posts)Could the airline be issued a subpoena to get that info?
eyeofnewt
(146 posts)This is an interview with Parnas from back in the day, October 2019, when Trump knew him 😆
His lawyer stated he had a one way ticket because a round trip would be $20k...ha
Also, he showed up with a bodyguard to this interview, which is telling in itself. If he thought he should worry about safety then .... haha
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/why-lev-parnas-worked-for-rudy-giuliani-and-donald-trump
malaise
(269,219 posts)sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)There was a safe, controlled environment to operate in.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)That's my guess.
malaise
(269,219 posts)NCProgressive
(1,315 posts)Or someone's book
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)The Wizard
(12,552 posts)One way tickets with cash is a red flag for authorities.
Kid Berwyn
(14,992 posts)malaise
(269,219 posts)Love it
Kid Berwyn
(14,992 posts)2024, should humanity get that far...
malaise
(269,219 posts)The entire family will be disgraced pariahs along before 2024