If your wife (or husband) leaves you and it wasn’t your doing, feel free to tell her(him) to go fuck herself (or himself) And then just leave her(him) alone after that.

1 marriage. High school sweethearts. Happily married 25 years.

Would you tell a person that has put in 25 plus years with you to go fuck herself? Or would you wish her well and focus on the things or people (kids) that will be affected by the breakup? Since you said someone was projecting, those seem to be legitimate questions for you.

We are all trapped in time — can’t go back, can’t go forward except by living through it a day at a time.

When my book of life is all down being written, I don’t want to feel like burning out the 25 chapters I chose to write with someone. I want to say to myself, yeah, that was a major part of my story too. I want the other person who wrote those chapters to feel the same way.

People should know there’s something to gain by just wishing them well. That is the main thing I’m saying.

I have never understood how two people that at one time would have said they were deeply in love can hate eachother. I once worked with a guy who would have murdered his ex-wife if he was sure that he could get away with it, to the point that I as a stranger feared for the woman's life, he had kids with her also - the corrosive mindset that he had couldn't have been healthy for the kids.

Wait till you're sitting on that porch.

I believe it better to wish the person well and work out property and financial entanglements with them in a calm and respectful manner. In the end, things work out much better that way.

3 kids - they really tried for 2 years to work through it - got counseling. But in the end she couldn’t forgive him for cheating. So far it’s very civilized and I know he will continue to be a great dad. I only hope it stays civilized especially when new partners get involved. Time will tell. DH and I are there for the kids.

One minute bitter, the next minute helping the other one with some small task.
Good for you to be there for the kids.

That’s true too.
Zen..

Get thee to the greatest page

mom gathered us together and started talking about life and relationships. She had a piece of string in her hand - she says one end was the beginning of our lives and the other was the end. Then she said somewhere between the beginning and the end we'd leave someone or someone would leave us and it was just a part of life. Learn and move on. She was a very wise woman.

my most recent "ex", we made three sincere efforts to succeed as a couple, and despite what each of us was putting into the relationship, we ultimately failed to make things work. We've professed our love for each other on a regular basis since then, and I hope to maintain the caring friendship we have for the rest of our lives.

All of us deal with certain demons in our lives, and anyone who has lived life to any degree knows how much these can mess with our ability to handle things we're required to deal with; and often most importantly, our relationships with those closest to us.

I said, "You can fall in love with anyone, anytime. Good luck."

I've been married to my wife, now, for 28 years. Just goes to show you, I guess.

While it hurt, stuff happens that you cannot control. One of the things none of us can control is another person. So it goes...

is understanding the consequences of doing something stupid. Too many of us human beings lack control and don't think before we act. I learned early that nothing was worth bringing long term harm to me.

Relationships. That's dangerous, because none of us can own someone else. Stuff happens that you can't control. So, it's better to accept that your partner could meet someone else and fall for that person. If that happens, you have to let go and move on. You didn't own the other person.

When one door closes, look for one that's open. There are many doors.

more than a few of whom see women as an offshoot of one of their ribs - one of the most ridiculous lies of all time.

If someone considers another person to be property, they think they can do anything they want to that property. In a male-dominated society, that lead to institutional treatment of women as property.

Very strange. I have another theory about that, though, that has to do with overcompensating for the knowledge that every man owes his very life to a woman. If you think about that for a while, you either are in awe of it or angry about the debt you own your mother. Too many men see that, unconsciously, as a sign of weakness, and overcompensate for it.

I've always wondered how people connect with each other romantically. I started wondering about that when I was in high school, some 60 years ago.

I lived in a small town of about 5000 people. My high school class had just 104 people in it and the whole high school had less than 600 students. Most of us had grown up together since elementary school. I knew the names of every kid in my class and a heck of a lot of kids in other years.

So, you knew everyone. How was it that one day, you and someone else looked at each other and decided to get together? Suddenly, a friend of yours for years became a romantic partner. I never did figure it out. It was great fun all the same, though.

of the better outcomes, IMO. For married people, it is not.

It often happens that there is an attraction between people. During my first marriage, I played in a very small musical group for eight years. The group met weekly for rehearsals and performed together frequently. We were all close friends. At one point I noticed that another member of the group and I seemed to be flirting with each other a lot. That can be harmless and even a good thing, but it can also be dangerous.

Eventually, it was clear that the two of us were on the verge of something more than flirting. Both of us were married. One day, I suggested that we talk about what was going on. We did talk. If we acted on our mutual attraction, we decided, it would be a very disruptive thing, both for our marriage relationships and for the small, close-knit musical group we were part of. So, we agreed that there was something powerful going on between us, but that we needed to back away from it, for sanity's sake. That talk let us ramp down the situation fairly smoothly and return to our friendship and musical association. We still flirted with each other sometimes, but with more humor than intent.

The point here is that we encounter people from time to time who might well be the loves of our lives - in different circumstances. We needn't cut off such relationships, but can often shift them to a less intense one and still maintain a close friendship. Communication is the key, really. Being honest and straightforward can allow such a situation to cool off without any bad feelings. We can use our reasoning abilities to deal with things, rather than just our emotions and hormones.

I wouldn't want to be in an open marriage, not that I am afraid of that, it is outside dalliances, even flirting, gets in the way of more important life issues.

I feel that way for three philosophical reasons. The first is that I am confident that I can pick a very strong woman by paying attention to the choices that she makes under many situations. The second is that having chosen a strong woman, I realize that I will often see her at her worse personal moments, things like morning breath, upset stomachs, gets a little impatient over simple matters, ect - I know that any woman that I meet under any public situation is going to most likely be at her best, unless she is a slob. Third, if I have kids with my wife, I would want to devote every free minute to help raising them and instilling values into them, I don't think that I could do that if I devoted time to another woman, whether my wife approved or not, and that includes flirting, because I wouldn't want my kids seeing me doing that.

I know the last part is different from how you feel about flirting, but my philosophy on life is that each person will be happy only if the follow the path in life that is right for them.

Flirting, on the other hand, is a fairly harmless thing that can cause positive feedback for both parties involved. It's not serious, and if it threatens to become so, it's time to back away from it.

We continue to be attracted to and to attract others.

But, not everyone is comfortable with that, I realize. Fortunately, my marriage partners have all been tolerant of, or even participants in flirting. It's allowed in my relationships by both parties, as long as that's all it is.

My post only reflected the choices that I would make if married, my wife would make her own set of choices.

I’m not over fond of “real man” tropes. Society places far too strong gendered behavior expectations as is. What is a man? What is a woman? Not talking about biology and chromosomes. What are they, really? Mostly a series of expectations. And within these expectations, gender is very fluid. Women can be hero’s, Men can nurture.

In the midst of heartbreak, it’s hard to think clearly, and people act irrationally. So while the sentiments are sweet, they offer cold comfort to someone suffering

In youth culture there are trends of young men and women calling out shit behavior, especially shit gendered behavior. I am happy to see this.

I know it’s sexist. On the other hand, it’s generally men killing the women, not the other way around. Some difference in natural motivations or psychology, or maybe it’s the result of cultural messaging.

Your comments are completely valid.

I watch a lot of YouTube, and follow other social media and it’s really interesting to see gamer culture slowly move away from the “gamer gate” mentality (ie women aren’t real gamers, were “ruining” gaming) to a full on call out brigade of the remaining sexist assholes.
Or, on TikTok, the number of videos of single fathers, or new fathers completely embracing their role as a nurturing parent.

This gives me so much hope. If they need “real man” guidance, I get it. I wish it wasn’t necessary but it seems to be.

As the saying goes, men fear women will leave them, women fear men will kill them. Watching men become aware of this, accepting this and become staunch allies is magic.

In in the heat of emotions that go on, this is not a gender issue.

A divorce, for instance, has been referred to as "crazy time" and while the sentiments of the OP are obviously meant to be helpful, they come across as a polite form of Ms. Manners etiquette, chiding men.

that is rather idealistic and seems to be sexist to me. In truth, sometimes the heat of the passion of people breaking up, from both parties and gay or straight, can be painful, confusing and very chaotic. It requires time, counseling, etc. I think The War of the Roses is an excellent, hyperbolic metaphor for what some people go through and how they react and behave.

Up until recent times, some countries would allow for a "crime of passion" defense and people would be exonerated for it because of the insane behavior that, say, a sudden encounter with infidelity can provoke. That's not to condone it, but to illustrate the emotional tumults of paring and splitting.

Married at age 22, 32 years married to my high school sweetheart, been separated for 4 years. It is extremely painful, there’s no one playbook to go by. I still have faith, color me stupid if you will

I'm sorry for the loss of your relationship. Sounds like you have your head together. Keep your faith.

There are self-help groups here at DU. You might find one to help you through the pain.

Hope you find peace and happiness.

For example...

If your husband leaves, be able to say “I hope he finds his happiness.”
That’s a real woman.


And say, he leaves you with two kids to raise. What would you say then?

I was hurt. But decided our relationship should have a special ending. Picked her up, had a picnic at dusk on a tiny island in the middle of a pond that you could reach with a long jump or two. Told her I wanted to thank her for what had been a beautiful relationship. Wished her happiness in her future. Toasted to a fine friendship.

It might have been hard for the first few words, but after that it got easier. I felt good about showing some class.

I don’t like surrendering to the fickle winds of time. I like to think that if I loved someone, it’s always still there, just a few pages back in the book of my life.

Two kids to raise is a whole different level of pain. I think for that I’d have to say something like “you’re going to have to help me get through this, God, because it’s bigger than I can handle.” And I’m not a believer.

If my husband left, I would totally say, “I hope he finds his happiness.” But I’m a little different than most.

For child support.

It really chaps me the way that some man won’t pay child support, but when the kids are grown they want to be Mr. wonderful fucking daddy.

At best you get a Bob Dylan song.

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/dont-think-twice-its-all-right/

At worst you jump out of her moving car in Berkeley after she's handcuffed her girlfriend's pimp to a urinal and beat the crap out of him.

One can strive to be a gentleman, gentlewoman, or gentleperson without any bullshit "manliness."

Our patriarchal society blows chunks and violent self-destructive people are a symptom of that.

It's especially important we teach boys, who will later be afflicted with an overabundance of testosterone, how to express emotions in non-violent ways, and without simply bottling it all in where it eats away at the soul like acid.

If they are learning “manliness” from a million cultural messages already, I guess my point is to substitute something that’s a little bit of counterprogramming. Instead of messages that say it’s manly to constrain a woman, or make her stay with you, or that you’re only a success if she doesn’t leave, turn it around and say, a man who keeps his cool, who respects her enough to let her go, is to be respected. Maybe, “is acting like a grownup” is better.

There's a full set of very old rules - I think out of Britain in the 1800s - that although are partially out of date that I try to remember and that represented the unspoken guidelines for living of most men that raised me in the 50s/60s. They had all suffered through the Great Depression and WW2. They didn't know about those printed rules from far way, but the rules were instinctive and deeply ingrained.

In a nutshell, those rules always guided a person toward doing no harm to others......

I fear we've drifted much too far away from our basic guides for a peaceful existence of compassion, civility, love of fellowman, empathy, unselfishness, open-mindedness, holding the tongue and being peacemakers, to name a few.

People act like this is some radical, crazy, clueless idea.

He and both his sisters remained friends with their exes. I went to one sister's wedding as a guest of my ex, and one of his sisters had one ex there, and the other sister had two exes there. There were four ex-girlfriends/boyfriends there.

I haven't seen any of them for many years. I should try to get back in touch.

Separate ways, sure.
Time to work through it, sure.
But trying to own your ex, make their life miserable, stalk or harm them??
Only displays weakness and a lack of self-control.

The secret to happiness in life is realizing that fact to begin with when infidelity overwhelms.

I have a rule about relationships and finding business associates. People show you who they are early-on, you just have to be attuned to seeing those signals. The husband who would sleep with a younger sister, a sister, a relative, a friend, a neighbor, a business associate of the wife, showed her what he was before she married him, she failed to see the warnings or she foolishly ignored them. Much of the bitterness that people feel in breakups is the victim saw the tendencies of the wrong doer well before they coupled, the bitterness is from the realization of that.

In my opinion, few men have been raised to be gentlemen in far too many years. So many have love, but have no respect for women. And when the love is gone, the disrespect turns into abuse and selfishness.

Speaking from experience.

If you are in one, do ethical things to make it work. But if the relationship fails, work on reaching your goals, don't despair or harm yourself. What I have seen is that someone else that is wonderful will come along and you end up wondering whether the cosmos designated you to be with that person. When I hear about a young person killing himself or herself over a failed romance, I can't help but think "what a waste of precious life". There is ALWAYS a better tomorrow, people need to keep that thought close when down.

You have a philosophy that allows you to look forward in a positive way, not to despair.

Some people harm themselves but there are far too many people who harm the other. They can’t find anything in their minds but a dead end and a desire to hurt someone.

Putting a different idea there in the minds of young men is what I’m talking about. Not just admonishing them to be nice, to be respectful, but to teach them that to be respectful towards an ex is something tot ask pride in. Call it chivalry, call it strength, call it maturity..but one way or another, prepare them to feel good about themselves in the middle of that otherwise very dangerous time.

that often makes them more attractive. Having a good philosophy about life is always an attractive feature in a person, IMO. Heck, a guy can go to the wedding of his former girlfriend and meet the love of his life there, if he does it all with a positive attitude, the same goes for women.

“Courtships” got broken off sometimes, you were supposed to be honorable about it.

Nowadays maybe people dive into the deep end, it’s harder, but still possible.

becomes physical.

The key to me is whether the rejected person views things philosophically and moves on.

“Fuck off” may clear the air.
Grownups ought to make an effort to hate less, forgive more.

Might mean different things depending on the circumstances.

These are absolutely ridiculous, and don’t take the circumstances of the breakup into account. Don’t presume to dictate to men how to feel, or what to say. Don’t presume to dictate what makes a good or “manly” man. We feel, and grieve, and suffer, too. We feel anger at being hurt. The important thing isn’t how we feel, it’s how we act based on how we feel.

If your girlfriend was super sweet but left you for another guy, can you say, “guess an angel had another soul to soothe”? Hell no, you can’t. You hurt, and grieve. You don’t say some stupid shit like that. You reach out to others. You get help. You rage and cry and despair if you need to, doing your best to not take it out on others. But you never get violent, and avoid violent thoughts. And you begin that awful, soul-grinding ordeal of getting over her. Leave her alone. Don’t try to contact her or see how she’s doing. She’s gone. It’s over. Accept it, as much as that sucks.

Sure, wish her well in time, but don’t feel like you have to immediately. Or really, ever, if you can’t. Try not to carry anger or hatred towards her. She won’t give a damn after moving on, so the only person that anger hurts is you. Give it time. Be able to admit that you failed, if you did, and don’t fail in that way with the next relationship. Take your pain and use it to try to improve yourself.

The OP sounds like it was written by someone who’s never loved and lost.

No timetable on the goal, which is to get peace on it. And not hurt people.
As long as no one turns violent in the meantime.

There are other ways of seeing it.

Is the absolute opposition to violence. Nothing warrants that. No matter how much someone’s hurting.

are in handling it. Some people are great about the process, and wish the best for all in the future. This is of course the best outcome.

In some other situations, it's not. Maybe sex outside the relationship, or some other major glitch/stumbling block. It happens. Quite frequently obviously with the high percentage of divorces in this country. A true shame, but communication should had been open to begin with, and perhaps this wouldn't have happened, but communications doesn't always happen.

Grudges and/or anger are held seemingly forever, and basically an inability to move on will damage all involved, which is a terrible shame. Especially if kids are involved. Sure, the relationship didn't work out. Move on, perhaps the next relationship (if one is out there, you never know) will be the diamond in the rough.

No one can predict the future. You do have to let it happen though...

when I got divorced 20 years ago, my short-lived marriage had no children so it made it fairly easy for me to act like a gentleman and wish her well. And, I sincerely meant that.

I had already gone through a lot of anguish during the marriage, so no point in continuing to dwell on it - I was too busy having fun dating half the single teachers and nurses in the state after the divorce. One time, several months after the divorce was finalized, we had to go somewhere to prove that we were no longer married (DMV maybe?), the woman called our names and asked why we were there, and we both said in unison, "We're divorced" and the woman laughed and said that we both seemed happy about that.

That said, if the situation was different and we had kids involved and one, or both, of us were cheating on the other, I'm sure it would have not ended so amicably, and different people handle things differently.