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Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:26 AM Jan 2020

Historian DUers: Is the rise and fall of Rome worth studying?

Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:25 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm reading a book about the collapse of complex societies and some of it is devoted to Rome. It is very interesting but it looks like one could spend years studying this (the way one could study WWI or WWII). Also, this book is written by an archeologist for people who have knowledge of these societies, so a lot of it is over my head.

Is there something to learn from studying the fall of this Empire? Does it echo with things that are happening now on the planet?

Looking at Amazon books this morning, there are hundreds of books on this subject.

Any book recommendations?

EDIT: I'm truly appreciating your answers. I'll print this out. Also, I appreciate the idea that it's worth studying for its own sake, not necessarily to locate parallels with what is happening now.

Thank you all!

DUers always come through with helpful advice.

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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PJMcK

(22,059 posts)
1. History is always worth studying
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:34 AM
Jan 2020

The best thing is that you can decide the level of depth you're willing to dig into a subject.

A great collection of books called The Story of Civilization by Will & Ariel Durant. The 11-volume set may seem daunting but the writing is clear and understandable and backed up with solid research.

hlthe2b

(102,425 posts)
2. The classic is the six volume series "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire "
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:34 AM
Jan 2020

by Gibbon. I got through most of it in an AP history class in high school. It was written in 1776 so while comprehensive as hell most won't want to go that extent. To be honest, I probably remember less of it given the rapid-fire manner in which I had to get through it, than I would the more contemporary writings and documentaries.

I only wish more Americans had familiarized themselves with the lessons of Rome, though (or frankly on any other lessons of the fragiity of Democracy)

a la izquierda

(11,797 posts)
3. I'm a historian.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:45 AM
Jan 2020

I just finished reviewing a text for publication about the democratic institutions in Latin America. Its publication will be timely, because it’s a history of the fits and starts of democracy. And it selves into how much work, how much social compact, goes into the maintenance of democracy.
And thus we see how fragile it really is in the face of autocrats.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
4. It's a fascinating history but looking for parallels
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:53 AM
Jan 2020

with today's dilemmas is pretty futile. You'll find some in general but also you'll find the details make it a usless comparison. There are over 200 different theories of what precipitated the fall and no one agrees actually when it happened spanning hundreds or even a thousand years. Have fun with the exercise but don't try to match it to the US. There's really nothing there.

no_hypocrisy

(46,243 posts)
6. Yes, because
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:18 AM
Jan 2020

1. History repeats itself, in government, politics, society, etc.

2. Perspective of "how did we get here?"

3. Newer applications of good ideas are found in this study.

PETRUS

(3,678 posts)
7. A book recommendation:
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:25 AM
Jan 2020

"S.P.Q.R: A History of Ancient Rome," by Mary Beard

And yes, I think there's always a benefit to studying history and searching for parallels.



Efilroft Sul

(3,584 posts)
11. Another book recommendation here.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:20 PM
Jan 2020

"Rubicon," by Tom Holland. It's a tremendously researched, very readable work that covers the last decades of the Roman Republic.

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
8. Yes the study of history is always important.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:42 AM
Jan 2020

I am reading the Federalist Papers again after 30 years. I first read them in college, then again later on. I felt I needed a refresher course.

MineralMan

(146,338 posts)
9. Sure. Studying history is always of value.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:48 AM
Jan 2020

Human societies have much in common and learning from mistakes can help.

lindysalsagal

(20,747 posts)
12. Theirs was a military-backed feudal system
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:33 PM
Jan 2020

Ok ok the senators voted. But it was always about winning ground battles. The Caesars all had to conquer to remain in power.

Not like ours at all.

UTUSN

(70,762 posts)
13. More than identifying with the Fall *or* the Rise, it's amazing - get hooked on YouTube videos
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:39 PM
Jan 2020

Professor Mary BEARD is a gateway drug. Metatron is fun and enlightening.

The parts about identifying with particular points in time and learning from the past is fine, but are too late in the present moment (present moment for any era) in the first place and futile in the second place because the forces rolling out are too powerful as they're happening to be able to fix them by somebody reading something. All that happens in the present moment is to say, "Oh, this is like what happened on such and such date."

That said, at my late date of 73 years, the videos have been astounding to me, and I supposedly was a History Minor, yet not moved or impressed during my highfalutin university learning, but now am awe struck. The history, the accomplishments, the drama are just (over-used/cheapened word: ) amazing. The whole thing just a thing in its own self.




appalachiablue

(41,182 posts)
14. If you get into modern German history, Sir Richard Evans is the best.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:55 PM
Jan 2020

How Germany's lack of a strong middle class contributed to liberalism and feminism never having a strong presence there, and so the rise of nationalism and wars.

Nations need a strong middle class in order to avoid the rise nationalism, demagogues and more.

The US middle class, once no. 1 and the world's largest ever is fast diminishing and it's very dangerous.

My Pet Orangutan

(9,338 posts)
15. The Storm before The Storm by Mike Duncan
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 01:21 PM
Jan 2020

A hugely important new work which explores the preconditions that led to the collapse of the Republic, and the emergence of Empire. The acutal fall of the Republic is largely is contest of personalities - Caesars royal ambitions, the civil war after his assassination, and finally the victory of Octavian.

The story before the Strom shows how rising income and wealthy inequality, hand in hand the resistance to reform by the wealthiest in the Senate, white anted the Republic, leaving it vulnerable to authoritarian popularism.

Arthur_Frain

(1,865 posts)
17. Carlyle's "The French Revolution"
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 01:30 PM
Jan 2020

Read it a couple of years ago. Might be worth reading, and you’ll wonder what the modern equivalent of “the terror” will be. Guillotines are going to be tough to bring back.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
18. If you have access to the Smithsonian Channel, I strongly recommend "Eight Days that Made Rome"...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:58 PM
Jan 2020

It’s outstanding, engaging and extremely informative. Here’s how Smithsonian pitches the eight-episode series:

Award-winning historian Bettany Hughes is on a mission that will take her across Italy's ancient sites and into the psyches of the emperors, gladiators, and generals of the Roman Empire. Explore the rise and fall of one of history's most extraordinary reigns, defined by eight critical days. From the defeat of the Carthaginian Empire to Julius Caesar's crossing the Rubicon River to Constantine's conversion to Christianity, explore this remarkable period and meet its key figures.
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