than what's being reported.

Of their numbers

Terrifying thought, we can't trust a CDC under the Trump administration. They couldn't even be honest about the injured troops, they have traumatic brain injuries and it's not 11, there are 34 of them.😔

The information is coming from Chinese officials.

(Not that I think we can trust Trump's CDC, mind you.)

the time comes, how can we trust anyone?

they would defy him if he tried to fudge the numbers or seriousness.

But you are right that the downplayed info is coming from China. I heard a report last night about how China downplayed SARS in the past, to the point that the Chinese people themselves do not trust their own authorities on this coronavirus.

The report also said that health agencies in various other nations, including the US, have examined the numbers according to known patterns of disease vectors for coronaviruses.. They project several hundred more cases than China is reporting.

this virus and it's effects so far are WAY WAY worse than is being let out--starting with local governments in Wuhan, Hubei Province and elsewhere and going right up to Beijing.

Word 'on the street' is that this is much worse than the SARS virus.

and brain-power. Scary stuff.

their healthcare situation is often worse than here in the US - you pay up front for treatmeant (cash) and if you have insurance, you have to get reimbursed from them later. If you can't pay up front, you're usually SOL

Their brand of communism is all the totalitarianism and state control of industries, loss of personal liberties, without the safety net

and not much in the way of social programs

but, I guess as usual, the devil is in the details.
https://www.bmj.com/content/365/bmj.l2349

but, my wife's family is all in China and it's still got a long way to go - and, I still hear about too many people that still have to run the equivalent of a GoFundMe to pay for medical care up front, even if gravely ill.

And, from what I saw in the article, only 10% of primary care providers have actual medical training/degrees, but that's up from 5.6%

In 2010, 5.6% of the doctors in township health centres had a formal medical education (five years of medical school),16 which increased to only 10% in 2017.

it's extremely challenging, though. The more modern and urbanized Eastern China is probably not all that far behind the US in terms of hospitals and medical care in many places. However, the doctors and medical personnel in China need incentives to work in rural/poorer areas. If you think that there is a rural/urban divide here in the US, it's definitely bigger in China... In the US, there is at least some charm to the "country bumpkin" or "good ole boy" type - the Beverly Hillbillies, Dukes of Hazzard, Doc Hollywood, etc. In China, that type is not glamorized in movies and on TV - they're often the subjects or ridicule/the butts of jokes. So, a doctor or nurse would need a LOT of incentive to move out to a rural area of China.

For example, while we've lost touch with her over the last 8-10 years, we had a friend who was born in China that's a well regarded cardiologist. She works at a NYC area hospital and makes good money there. She was offered 600K to work at a more rural hospital in the Midwest and she turned it down, even though the cost of living is probably a fraction of what it is in the NYC area and it was probably a little more than double her NYC salary. She just didn't want to work in a more rural setting.

I read how Taiwan assessed various healthcare systems all over the world and decided American Medicare was the one to adopt in their country and made it universal for all ages.

China is massive, and they are implementing a sort of basic health insurance coverage. It doesn't cover much but it's better than the big fat bills that Americans get. Hong Kong and Macau have their own universal systems for their residents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_China

Wide variance in quality, availability and access. Depending....

Who you are
$$$
where you live
who you know

etc....

It is no hoax - it is serious and they are taking stringent measures to deal with it. Celebrations for Chinese New Year tomorrow have been as good as cancelled.

Yesterday there was unconfirmed video of a man who'd collapsed in a Wuhan street. When it gets to this point, it's hard not to imagine this is extremely serious.

to be a lobby. I wish it wasn't so hard to verify them.

Link to tweet

Thanks for finding this.

This is much worse than the very short clip I saw yesterday, which showed a man after he'd already collapsed.

Too many times, someone's posted a video clip (in good faith) purporting to show one thing, but it's actually something else.

in China due to the quarentine. According to them, it is true. People are collspsing in the streets. Those who cannot pay are left untreated to die. Hospital workers are overwhelmed and turning away even people who can pay. Part of the problem is that so many hospital staff have succomed to exposure.

The program I heard on NPR came from the BBC. It was a discussion of how China handled SARS and what they had learned from that experience to help them today. The number of cases and deaths came from their discussion of SARS. People turned away and dying happened in the SARS epidemic.

They did interview a Brit who is in China today and can't leave because of the quarentine. He did say that the cases are more widespread than China is reporting. He mentioned hospital staff who contracted it from patients and some who did not have face masks for protection. Some hospitals are overwhelmed and turning away patients.who might die if not treated.

Sorry that I mixed the two parts of the program in my post. They re-ran the SARS discussion tonight and I caught my mistake of mixing the discussions of the two different viruses.

However, I did look up this corona virus and found a health sites reporting that the corona virus has manifested as pneumonia in many patients instead of just flu, which makes it a bit more risky than just a cold or flu virus.

Tweeted by RT

This is from the World Health Org.

Link to tweet

/photo/1

For the Chinese government to admit ANY deaths, means that the entire country is probably infected.

and he has branches of government lie on his behalf, if it does get worse and it looks like it will, how are we supposed to know what to believe?

I just did a side by side comparison with the rate of infection with SARS and with this Coronavirus.

in the first month SARS had roughly 300 people infected. In the first month of the Coronavirus: over 800.

I'm not one for hysteria or screaming that this is the second great plague, it's just that this one is more aggressive than the last and needs to be dealt with quickly and effectively.

also: I forgot to add, china is notorious for under reporting the actual amounts.

is one of the few government agencies that can be trusted for the hard work, research and assistance with so many NGOs and all countries around the world. Of course, Trump's politics and cuts and hate for science has had an impact on the agency but we need to support it and encourage our elected representatives to fight for it and the few agencies we have left that are standing up to Trump and his lackeys by continuing their good work.

....so many things can go wrong here..

but a hospital shouldn't have any trouble housing 26 dead bodies in a morgue. the city has 8+ million people. basically the size of new York. pretty sure way more than 26 people die in NY every day. granted not all at the same hospital.