General Discussion
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(41,999 posts)One of my favorite books. Its really satisfying to see it trending today. I expect the upcoming session wont disabuse anyone of that notion.
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Will be interesting to see what the next steps are - I think the questions.
Kali
(55,026 posts)I have to take somebody to a doctor in Tucson so I am going to miss most of the day. I really hate to watch recordings for hours but may have to do so tonight.
Thanks again for doing these threads!
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)and they are getting the Chaplain ready to do the benediction!
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)One talker on ABC mentioned Republicans trying to "run out the clock on the news cycle".
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Kali
(55,026 posts)anybody hear this?
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)Kali
(55,026 posts)so I kind of doubt it
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)mobeau69
(11,163 posts)nolabear
(41,999 posts)Smiles on their faces and evil in their hearts is strong language. Of course theyll all claim its not them.
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)"and the truth will set you free..."
He has been doing some BIG TIME code talking with the benedictions.
crickets
(25,987 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)3 presentations and will be done by "dinner time".
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)nolabear
(41,999 posts)Theyre gassed out.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)nolabear
(41,999 posts)I know whereof you speak! 🐕💨
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Kaitlan Collins byline
By Kaitlan Collins, CNN
Updated 12:54 PM ET, Tue January 28, 2020
Washington (CNN)Former White House chief of staff John Kelly says he believes John Bolton's allegation that President Donald Trump told the former national security adviser that US security aid to Ukraine was conditioned on an investigation of the President's political rivals, adding that Bolton should be heard from.
"If John Bolton says that in the book I believe John Bolton," Kelly said Monday night when asked about the leaked draft manuscript during remarks at the Ringling College Library Association Town Hall lecture series, according to the Herald Tribune of Sarasota, Florida.
Kelly said Bolton "always gave the president the unvarnished truth" and is a "man of integrity and great character." "I mean, half of Americans think this process is purely political and shouldn't be happening, but since it is happening, the majority of Americans would like to hear the whole story," Kelly said. "So I think if there are people that could contribute to this, either innocence or guilt ... I think they should be heard. I think some of the conversations seem to me to be very inappropriate but I wasn't there. But there are people that were there that ought to be heard from."
Bolton's allegations, contained in a draft manuscript first reported by The New York Times, have led to fresh calls from Democrats for Bolton to testify in Trump's impeachment trial.
This story is breaking and will be updated.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/28/politics/john-kelly-believes-john-bolton/index.html
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Someone on MSNBC was saying something about Mattis too - perhaps he needs to join the gang.
H2O Man
(73,637 posts)Another day of dynamic presentations.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Impeachment has NOTHING to do with a bill of attainder.
I guess he's trying to remove impeachment out of the Constitution.
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)it's probably close to his dropping some acid.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)I can foresee someone taking a few quotes from these WH counsels, with the message beneath: This is your brain on Fox.
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)crickets
(25,987 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)At least it's not loud, like before
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)His argument appears to be: Since extorting an ally to help you win an election is not an intelligence community activity, the whistleblower complaint could legally be hidden from Congress.
Raven
(13,904 posts)hey fellas, the horse left that barn a long time ago. They are basically telling people to unhear what they've already heard.
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)nolabear
(41,999 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)crickets
(25,987 posts)it's amazing that they are tossing away the responsibility of necessary Congressional oversight.
malaise
(269,219 posts)over and over
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Kali
(55,026 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)Sounds like hes making a great case for some expert witnesses. What do previous OLC officers think? Hmmm?
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)Its not even funny, except for when it is. And I have heard the need for more witnesses throughout their arguments.
crickets
(25,987 posts)opinion of the OLC and its role.
The Office of Legal Counsel and Secret Law
Because they have the force of law within the executive branch, and because they often address topics of real consequence, the OLCs opinions are frequently the subject of litigation under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Usually this litigation arises under the provisions of FOIA that require federal agencies to respond to requests for records. Someone learns of the existence of an OLC opinion, requests it, and then sues to enforce the request when the OLC fails to respond, or when it claims the opinion is privileged. Occasionally this kind of litigation results in important disclosures, but theres something disturbingly backwards, and even undemocratic, about a system that allows the government to conceal and withhold opinions that have the force of law unless and until someone requests them. [snip]
...the OLC has accumulated, over the years, a body of legal opinions that have the force and effect of law but whose very existence is concealed from the public. Its impossible to estimate the size of this hidden corpus, but its perhaps useful to note that a case litigated by the ACLU two years ago uncovered, more-or-less by accident, the existence of almost a dozen OLC opinions whose existence the OLC had not previously acknowledged. A report published by the Brennan Center last year suggests there may be many more.
The OLC contends that its opinions are categorically exempt from the reading-room provisions because these opinions constitute legal advice, not law. But the description of the OLCs formal written opinions as advisory is, at best, incomplete. Within the executive branch, the OLCs opinions are accorded essentially the same status as opinions of the U.S. Supreme Court. Steven Bradbury, who led the OLC during President George W. Bushs second term, wrote in 2005 that OLC opinions are controlling on questions of law within the Executive Branch. David Barron, who led the office during the Obama administration, observed in 2010 that the OLC is frequently asked to opine on issues of first impression that are unlikely to be resolved by the courtsa circumstance in which OLCs advice may effectively be the final word on the controlling law. In litigation, the OLC describes its final opinions as advisory, but in fact it views these opinions as binding on federal agencies, and this is how the agencies view them, too. Many OLC opinions are better characterized as law than as legal advice.
Mersky
(4,986 posts)Seems to be a rather flawed system with some inherent weaknesses as revealed by what were witnessing today.
I have been aggravated with the referencing to the OLC memo from the Clinton days saying a sitting president cant be charged with a crime. The lines between legal advice under the political umbrella, force of law, and a poor mechanism for review are way too blurred.
...
Thank you for posting it, Crickets!
crickets
(25,987 posts)Right there. It is a problem.
Mersky
(4,986 posts)I think it finally crystallized in my brain, and yeah, its a problem.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Kali
(55,026 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)Ha!
Yep, he was "dually" elected -- Putin and the propaganda machine of Murdoch & Sinclair.
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)crickets
(25,987 posts)Talking points for FOX, nothing more. They have no defense.
Arkansas Granny
(31,535 posts)madaboutharry
(40,234 posts)The entire defense was pathetic. All they have done is lie and complain of how everyone is so mean to Trump and that everyone else sucks.
Oh my, did I just hear the names Lisa Page and Peter Strzok?
Sekulow is just whining now.
nolabear
(41,999 posts)B-List bunch.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)crickets
(25,987 posts)They should be embarrassed, but...
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)(unless they want to cut that... )
crickets
(25,987 posts)"I'm not going to go into it. You know who they are."
WTF it this?
gademocrat7
(10,676 posts)This delusional defense squad should be disbarred.
Arkansas Granny
(31,535 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)OT: my connection today reminds me of 2400 baud modem connections back in the day.
Kali
(55,026 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)They have to buy the expensive straws to grasp:
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)and there are multiple copies of it all over the internet.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)and the hearings were not "covered up" because they are available on youtube right now. All the clips that the House Managers showed as well as those that the idiot side showed, are ALL available.
The GOP are the ones who cherry-picked and are covering up by blocking evidence and people.
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)nolabear
(41,999 posts)There will be tells everywhere.
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)nolabear
(41,999 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)Theyre coming for your nuts! 🥜
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)Mersky
(4,986 posts)Good grief.
Gah, he just said three more in a row.
SamKnause
(13,110 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)crickets
(25,987 posts)which took everyone through the case point by point and painted a cogent, compelling argument for removal, all we've heard from Republicans is a wandering cherry pick of talking points. They have not managed to pull together anything resembling a real defense. It's mind boggling.
BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)under such a tight deadline.
And so all they could do was try to cobble together segments on CT, Biden sliming, "burden sharing", and "no quid pro quo because the criminal said it right outta his mouth!!111!!! "NO QUID PRO QUO!!!111!!!!!"
crickets
(25,987 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,484 posts)SamKnause
(13,110 posts)dpibel
(2,876 posts)In 2017 and 2018, when the Ukraine administration was patently corrupt, there was no problem with aid.
But, once a reformer was elected, well, guys! The alarms went off. We had to wait and see if this guy was the real deal.
See how that works?
Yeah. That's the ticket!
crickets
(25,987 posts)that the US was footing the bill for Ukraine and boohoo that we were giving so much. Why isn't Europe helping?
1. Get over it, skinflint. Congress has power of the purse and they released the funds.
2. Europe was also pitching in plenty. It's no one's fault but your own that you didn't know.
elleng
(131,202 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)El Supremo
(20,365 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,662 posts)crickets
(25,987 posts)So many of the Trump admin have been shown to be liars, repeatedly and recently, but Bolton (smarmy as he is) is not one of them. Trying to claim the manuscript is inadmissable as evidence: okay, so have the person who wrote it testify about it.
Bolton has them terrified, and "nuh-uh!" isn't going to make his information bombshell go away.