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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI See We Are Now Holding Joe Biden's Feet to the Fire.
I remember when we did that to Barack Obama, too. And Hillary Clinton. It appears that it is a tradition on DU to do that to all Democratic presidential candidates who are not the preferred nominee in some people's minds.
This time, it's an accusation that dates back to 1993, made by a woman who has a long history of accusing people of such things. There is no real evidence that any such sexual assault occurred, but that doesn't matter. The accusation has been made, so we must post dozens of times about what a bad thing such an accusation is for our presumptive nominee.
We must pick it all apart, again and again to keep it on everyone's minds. Never mind that the Republicans will be doing the same thing. It is our tradition to dig up every possible piece of dirt on the person we are nominating as our candidate for President.
How, I wonder, does that make any sense?
LisaL
(44,974 posts)You have to believe all the accusations, therefore logic follows that if anybody makes an accusation, such an accusation is accurate.
Pointing out obvious flaws in accuser's claims is "shaming the victim." That gives an accused very little avenue to respond.
They can't shame the victim. You can't prove something didn't actually happened unless an accuser provides an exact date of the supposed incident and you can prove you were somewhere else at the time.
Basically, you could see it coming-anybody who was going to be our choice was likely to be accused.
Even a female candidate is not immune from such accusations.
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)It sure seems like some folks think just that.
'Tis a puzzlement..."
It's not really, of course, puzzling at all. Clearly, some hope this will cause Biden to lose.
Sure as hell not me.
How many times has Trump being accused? Republicans don't seem to care. Whereas democrats forced Al Franken to resign over some accusations one of which was he put his hand around a waist (and apparently pinched some fat on that waist) of some lady with whom he had a photo taken.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)'It sure seems like some folks think just that..."
It also seems some folks simply make things up in order to argue a point no one of note is making. It's not really, of course, puzzling at all. Clearly, some hope their pretense of self righteousness will come true if they simply advertise it loud enough.
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)we can do it
(12,205 posts)That woman is a serial "victim".
She makes me sick.
Trueblue Texan
(2,447 posts)Take them seriously and investigate.
stopdiggin
(11,387 posts)or do you just Benghazi and email things over, and over, and over ...?
And those processes (to be overly polite) were useful in what way? There comes a time when "we must believe .." and "we must investigate .." becomes ludicrous .. and obvious injustice. And minds that can't get there .. should not be pampered and assuaged.
-- -- --
Butterflylady
(3,553 posts)Before I would believe Biden did what he was accused of doing. It's that simple.
Bev54
(10,082 posts)Trueblue Texan
(2,447 posts)...I'm saying exactly what Biden said. We can't stand by our principles and simply dismiss charges against someone without looking into them. But we have to at least investigate. If her claims are not credible, and from what I've seen, they are not, then make that case. But don't deny her right to be heard. As a woman, I believe that is the right thing to do.
Bev54
(10,082 posts)She has been heard and dismissed by those who are much more experienced in this area than us.
Trueblue Texan
(2,447 posts)I was answering one more specific to my answer. further down. Sorry if I caused confusion. Of course, we must take accusations seriously. Of course, we must consider context and results of investigations. I agree, there is plenty of reason to doubt her credibility and plenty of reason to give VP Biden the benefit of the doubt. We are on the same side here.
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)As I said on another thread, those spearheading the #metoo movement should have realized that careening from the horrible default position of disbelieving women to the, quite frankly, equally horrible default position of believing women would always end this way. The #metoo movement should have always been about listening to alleged victims of assault, hearing them out, being compassionate, and then evaluating their story. That we set the standard as they are "automatically telling the truth," absolutely sets up. The article Scarborough links to is right. With the current standard, #metoo is little more than a hit squad when it should be representing a standard of protecting victims while also protecting the accused, as the latter is the very standard of innocent until proven guilty upon which our country is based.
The presumption of belief is the very antithesis of the presumption of innocence on the part of the accused.
mokawanis
(4,453 posts)so I'm all for putting aside, for now, pretty much anything that detracts from or weakens our efforts against Trump. There will be ample time after the election to debate and argue and discuss concerns. AFTER we defeat Trump.
Response to MineralMan (Original post)
Post removed
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)Bernie Sanders is no longer running for President.
Perhaps you missed that news.
niyad
(113,628 posts)The Magistrate
(95,257 posts)But your attempt at deflection is noted, and your illustration of just why so many find it hard to completely trust the most vociferous supporters of 'Bernie' to do the right thing come November is appreciated....
"Your attitude is noticed! Oh yes, it is noticed!"
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)stop Trump.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)PatSeg
(47,649 posts)Time to focus on defeating Trump.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)Feinstein should have written Dr. Ford back indicating that the Senate would not be able to investigate her charges.
That seat was lost in 2014 when the Senate was lost. Until we get the Senate back there won't be another Democratic SC nomination.
I don't know how I would defend myself from such an accusation when I was in high school.
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)didn't happen. It's very easy, however, to claim that something happened.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)After so many years, when someone comes with an accusation, it's pretty much impossible to prove one way or the other.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)It is freaking stupid to run with a single (or even several) problematic complaints without some facts to back up the accusation(s).
The Kavanaugh thing was a disaster.
Franklin was sacrificed to win the Senate seat in Alabama.
The overreaction of the colleges on Title IX complaints has also been a disaster.
I know I wouldn't want to enter a star chamber on accusations.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)I see it much more here than on any MSM.
Makes one wonder...
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)It's pretty clear to me, frankly.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I remember the specific posters who first started it.
Usually the posts begin with, I saw this on facebook, or Tell me how to dispute this with my trumper family.
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)They can be so subtle, but in the process they get the BS out there.
DENVERPOPS
(8,862 posts)to some guy: "are you still beating your wife" ?????????
RepubliCONS are great at accusing Dems of stuff that the Repubs are actually doing to put the dems on the defense. The Dems spend all their time defending themselves, rather than on the offense nailing the Repubs......
How pitifully simple, yet effective every single time.........They have been doing it for three or four decades........
live love laugh
(13,161 posts)The Magistrate
(95,257 posts)The time for this sort of crap is over. They cannot ruin our leaders without our help, and there are a damned sight more of us than there are of them. Well-meaning, good-hearted people who tend to the left need to learn not to allow their better natures to be taken advantage of by vicious scum on the right, and splinterest wreckers on the far left, who enlist them in their charges against figures of the center left, by exhorting them to 'be consistent' and telling them 'don't be hypocrites'. The proper response to attempts at this is a hearty "Fuck off! Nobody cares what a rancid piece of dogshit like you thinks!" Or words to that effect....
Only attack the enemy, the christo-fascist right.
Never, ever, attack people who are on your side.
If you want one quick reason why the right wing wields power well out of proportion to the popularity of its policies, it is that they adhere to this rule, and we on the left do not.
"Defeat of a dangerous enemy is something to be for."
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)I fear we will not see the end of this, however, until November 3.
lostnfound
(16,193 posts)The mouthpiece for the right keeps marching its base in lockstep like lemmings.
The closest thing that liberals have to a foothold in mainstream media, MSNBC, spends its precious airtime and our precious energy swiftboating our own candidates.
In my opinion, if they really understood what was at stake this time, they wouldnt do it.
Maybe they want to shakedown Biden for more ad revenue.
Maybe they want trump to get re-elected.
The Magistrate
(95,257 posts)Make sure everyone knows we are having none of it, shame any on our side who try and pretend there's something to this swill, and blanket 'news' outlets who try and peddle these lies with angry protests and threats of boycott --- anything short of actual threats of lethal violence.
There are a damned sight more of us than there are of them.
"Defeat of a dangerous enemy is something to be for."
lostnfound
(16,193 posts)Though my SO does say he is the girl in the relationship.
🤣
The Magistrate
(95,257 posts)I shall try and remember.
lostnfound
(16,193 posts)😊 Im the lucky one
PatSeg
(47,649 posts)for using their opponents' strengths against them. Sadly, Democrats tend to fall for it over and over again.
Peacetrain
(22,880 posts)Holding their feet to the fire was always just a cowards way of trying to take them down.. It still drives me crazy and you are 100% right!!
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)It's a great way to get a confession of heresy out of someone, it seems.
KayF
(1,345 posts)i'm seeing mostly support for Biden
niyad
(113,628 posts)Marrah_Goodman
(1,586 posts)and posts against the Reade woman. I have also not seen it discussed on my facebook feed at all and I have only liberals as friends and family. I don't watch much cable news where I assume they are probably talking about it more.
I read that he unequivocally denied it ever happened this morning on morning joe. I think he should leave it at that and ignore it like Trump did about his accusations.
The most I have heard about it is here. Maybe we should put this behind us and keep moving forward to get out the vote. If people come out to vote in November we win hands down. I truly believe that.
KayF
(1,345 posts)and responding to every question about it by listing EVERY accusation against Trump, of which there are a lot, and saying he will not comment further until Trump addresses ALL of them.
I don't think any of the responses should say anything about Reade herself.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,026 posts)MineralMan
(146,338 posts)asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)asks a question and his response is "that's a nasty question', and he gets away with it...does that make any sense?
The pos is able to hype a drug without a license, and get away with it, does that make any sense?
The pos goes golfing and holds rallies while Rome burns, does that make any sense?
The pos gets caught in a pay off to an adult entertainer, skates, Cohen goes to jail, does that make any sense..to many to mention..
Now, with little media exposure available, Joe Biden is asked to respond to a woman who has changed her story many times..almost as many times as she has changed her name..this will be
fodder for days..my hope is journalists do due diligence and investigate the crap out of this "Tara" story..
Our charge, therefore, is, to be the voice of America in these dark days, and bring the light in November...I am not so naïve to think this will be a walk in the park - another day, another donation to the Biden campaign..we are the wind under the wings of our country..that make sense to me..
PatSeg
(47,649 posts)if Joe Biden had said to Mika, "That's a nasty question"? The crap Trump gets away with is mind-boggling and he seems to get worse every day. A Democrat can't even pull off wearing a tan suit or eating fancy mustard on a burger.
DENVERPOPS
(8,862 posts)that "NASTY" is one of his dog whistle words for his racist followers......
Kingofalldems
(38,496 posts)Others here take the bait. Remember the Al Franken business, one poster in particular would start multiple threads every day trashing him.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)There are some who can't help but parrot GOP talking points. Too many on the left do that so they can sit on their high horse protecting some warped "principle" about fairness and then feel superior rather than work to help elect Democrats. This is why Dems lose many elections that we should have won.
PatSeg
(47,649 posts)Democrats often confuse "fair" with "equal" and republicans encourage them.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)sop
(10,274 posts)Republicans are never concerned about the sins of their candidates, but they cynically manipulate and use Democrats' concerns against our own candidates.
dalton99a
(81,637 posts)*suspected or actual
judesedit
(4,443 posts)The scum is definitely gonna do something like this to Biden, too. Don't buy into the bullshit. She's accused many of assaulting her. She used to hate Putin. Now she's in love with him. See where this is going? DUMP TRUMP! It is critical for our country's health.
judesedit
(4,443 posts)Wake up, people.
Yes, it is beyond irony that this is the thing being used against Joe. This and a supposedly corrupt family member. The projection model. Oy vey.
stillcool
(32,626 posts)I keep seeing and hearing Reverend Wright, and Howard Dean. It doesn't take much to stir memories of those major cataclysmic events, and it didn't take much to start them
Lulu KC
(2,574 posts)Why? (My husband and I just had this conversation.)
I'm not just against Trump, I'm for Joe.
It is not Joe's style to lie. I think if it had happened, he would say so. And why not? It was 1993. He's been around long enough to make plenty of mistakes. Look at his competitor's ****-grabbing boast. It would be more Joe's style to admit it and get into a bigger mess trying to work through nuances because that's who he is. (To me, one of his endearing qualities) But he is absolutely not doing that. He is sure of himself.
Putin apologist? Dad's book thing? Supporter of another candidate? Get real.
I am with Joe.
(And finding it kind of interesting in my anecdotal personal observations that men are more inclined to examine this closely than women are. This indicates general growth in consciousness to me. #MeToo has done a lot. For her to think she can ride on its coattails and subject us to another four years of hell is making my blood boil. Insult + injury)
Rant may be over, for now.
IronLionZion
(45,563 posts)They could have used it then to take them both down.
Lulu KC
(2,574 posts)stopdiggin
(11,387 posts)iluvtennis
(19,882 posts)And I'm tired of the media picking apart Joe Biden for this one accusation while not talking about the 14 sexual assault allegations against trump. If they are going to report on this Joe Biden accusation, ad nauseam, they need to do the same with trump.
Don't forget the 2016 election where the media EXTENSIVE reporting on Hillary and the emails, but VERY LITTLE reporting on trump and the sex assault allegations, fraud, con schemes, housing discrimination, etc.
3catwoman3
(24,072 posts)...as the possibility that I would want to grope Donald Trump - no way in hell!
Tarc
(10,478 posts)This woman's story has holes galore. I have little doubt about the "touching" part, many men of Biden's age are from the era of shoulder-touches, pats, pecks on the cheek, etc... but Reade has conveniently tacked on a more serious charge well after talking about the first one. The same pattern is seen with the character witnesses, e.g. her brother, who spoke again days later with "oh yea, the assault".
It's better to air this, along with all the other craziness like the near-masturbatory Putin-fawning, out now in May. Get it out there, knock it down, and it will be a faded headline by July.
DFW
(54,448 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)future, Joe and other Democrats need to take a page from Trump's playbook. Don't even get defensive. Just act like you don't know what they are talking about when you are accused of something. "Never met her", "Never heard of it", "I have no idea as to what you are talking about", "That's a lie, you are a liar", "Fake News!", etc....
Never show up for court, never admit a mistake, never complain, never explain. Never get in the position of having to defend ourselves for anything. Whatever they accuse us of, it's all a big LIE. Because if there is one thing everyone knows by now is that all they do is LIE.
Just_Vote_Dem
(2,820 posts)Repubs/Cons do, for numerous reasons.
PatrickforO
(14,595 posts)And I remember this too.
Remember how carefully Obama vetted EVERYONE who was going to be connected with his administration? If Biden actually DID this, i.e. if Reade's accusation really is credible, Obama never would have picked Biden as his VP. Ever.
To my mind, the fact Obama DID pick Biden, who served as VP two terms, makes me believe Reade's accusation is flimsy at best, and likely false.
Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)FUCK THEM, reap what you sow, end of discussion.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)As you said, the Republicans will use this. The whole idea is to take Trump's many abuses of women out of the conversation by saying that Biden did it too. Never mind the truth. As long as this accusation continues to get attention then Trump wins.
So I think that Joe had no choice but to confront this head on so that we can get this behind us. It's better to be talking about it now. We don't want it on the front page just before we go to the polls in November.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Between the alleged assault, and the alleged victim coming forward, and expect said victim to be taken seriously?
If the legal system has a statue of limitations that should be the goal, IMO.
Do not forget there were plenty of members on DU posting they would never forgive Biden for the way Anita Hill was treated.
niyad
(113,628 posts)Was not made until after JB announced. The sexual assault thing was just added. Her Twitter account has a number of posts praising JB's work on VAWA. Also contains many posts praising Putin (some in Russian). Her tweets for BS. Accusations of theft at a non-profit for which she worked. Her accusations of similar acts against at least five other people.
Utterly amazing.
maxrandb
(15,364 posts)Sure, the Retrumplicans will be doing the same, but now they can cite CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, The. New York Times, Washington Post, NPR and the AP so they can say; "see... if these 'liberal' media sources are covering it, it can't be partisan".
This is how the right-wing smear machine works. They nibble and nibble at it... maybe even complain that no one else is covering it, and then, as soon as it hits a "legitimate" news organization, it takes off like a wild fire.
Hence, a story with absolutely no evidence is suddenly the story that must be front page everywhere.
See Barack Obamas birth place, Benghazi, Kerry's War Record and Butter emails for just a few examples.
Gothmog
(145,667 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20
H2O Man
(73,637 posts)It is part and parcel of the rapidly growing ugliness within this country, that Dr. Bandy Lee described so powerfully in my second interview, posted on this forum ein the week. I've studied both the individual who is accusing Biden of something that I am 100% convinced he did NOT do, as well as those promoting the lie, and those who will seek to capitalize on it in the fall.
There is one good way to deal with this, that we should be activating now, rather than waiting until the general election season. But I do not see any evidence that most good Democrats -- including those on this forum -- are aware of it. There are a number of bad alternatives, that will not only do zero good, but can and will be harmful. It makes me sad to see how much energy is being invested in those negative alternatives.
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)who played in those precedents are playing in this one, too.
We must all have very, very short memories.
H2O Man
(73,637 posts)These are experts at weaponizing lies, and exploiting a woman with a severe personality disorder. There are ways to calmly expose her issues, without viciously attacking her. We should be attacking those who are exploiting her.
There is much more to dealing with it, of course. But the grass roots isn't there yet. They need to move to that higher ground very soon.
Progressive dog
(6,921 posts)to set the dogs loose on a Democrat. Hunter Biden and Ukraine didn't work, this is just the next attack on our nominee.
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,858 posts)... until yours for the last several weeks.
One thread, from that time, that documented her wackiness was all that I needed to read about it.