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fleur-de-lisa

(14,629 posts)
Mon Jul 13, 2020, 11:39 AM Jul 2020

The Traditional Interpretation of the Pardon Power Is Wrong

Properly understood, the commutation of Roger Stone’s sentence is unconstitutional.

When Roger Stone was sentenced to 40 months in federal prison for obstruction, making false statements, and witness tampering, Judge Amy Berman Jackson concluded, “He was not prosecuted, as some have complained, for standing up for the president. He was prosecuted for covering up for the president.” Stone was scheduled to be incarcerated on July 14, 2020. On July 10, Donald Trump commuted his sentence. Is this particular use of the president’s power constitutional and lawful? Many in the legal establishment maintain that it is, but we disagree.

The power to grant “pardons and reprieves” includes the power to commute, or reduce, sentences after convictions. But this power is constrained by a limit: “except in cases of impeachment.” Traditionally, this exception has been read to mean only that a president cannot use the pardon and reprieve power to prevent or undo an impeachment by the House or an impeachment conviction by the Senate. By this interpretation, only impeachment charges themselves are precluded from presidential pardons. (According to the Constitution, the vice president and “all civil Officers of the United States” are subject to impeachment, which means, for example, that a president cannot pardon a federal judge’s impeachment.)

But there is a strong argument, rooted in the Constitution’s text, history, values, and structure, that in addition to banning the prevention or undoing of an impeachment, this phrase also bans a president from using the pardon and reprieve power to commute the sentences of people directly associated with any impeachment charges against him. This argument is not a partisan one. Whatever rule is applied today would necessarily apply to future presidents, Democrats as well as Republicans.

The impeachment charges against President Trump focused mainly on his alleged withholding of foreign aid from Ukraine to pressure the Ukrainian president into digging up dirt on Hunter Biden that could support Trump’s reelection campaign, and on his refusal to cooperate with the congressional investigation of this matter. But the articles of impeachment also explicitly invoke his “previous invitations of foreign interference in United States elections” and “previous efforts to undermine United States Government investigations into foreign interference in United States elections.” According to our interpretation of the pardon clause, that would mean he can’t use the pardon and reprieve power to commute the sentences of those charged with crimes related to Russian interference in the 2016 campaign—including Stone, who was convicted of lying to Congress and obstructing its investigation into Russian election interference. This obstruction impeded the ability of Congress to gather information that could have been vital to the impeachment inquiry, benefiting Trump.

more at:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/traditional-interpretation-pardon-power-wrong/614083/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
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The Traditional Interpretation of the Pardon Power Is Wrong (Original Post) fleur-de-lisa Jul 2020 OP
Those are good points. However, MineralMan Jul 2020 #1
That is a very strong argument. lagomorph777 Jul 2020 #2
No. StarfishSaver Jul 2020 #3
What do you think of Glen Kirchner's position that Biden could rescind Trump's commutation? Fiendish Thingy Jul 2020 #4
I don't think much of it at all ... StarfishSaver Jul 2020 #6
can you say banana republic? stopdiggin Jul 2020 #7
Under that interpretation, that would include Manafort and Michael Flynn. BComplex Jul 2020 #5

MineralMan

(146,354 posts)
1. Those are good points. However,
Mon Jul 13, 2020, 11:42 AM
Jul 2020

the commutation will stand. The language on pardons in the Constitution is subject to interpretation, to be sure. However, it is unlikely that the argument made in the Atlantic will bear any fruit.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
2. That is a very strong argument.
Mon Jul 13, 2020, 11:45 AM
Jul 2020

Would be interesting to see it tested in SCROTUS - but probably risky in the currently constituted Court.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
3. No.
Mon Jul 13, 2020, 11:49 AM
Jul 2020

This is a stretch, at best.

The language is clear. It means the pardon power doesn't apply to cases of impeachment. Nothing in the Constitution says or even suggests that an impeached but not removed president's power is diminished in any way by virtue of that impeachment.

But even if their argument were valid, the acquittal by the Senate would likely remove that prohibition - just as, in the criminal sphere, an acquittal means a defendant is no longer under a legal cloud or restriction, despite having been charged/indicted for a crime.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,719 posts)
4. What do you think of Glen Kirchner's position that Biden could rescind Trump's commutation?
Mon Jul 13, 2020, 12:05 PM
Jul 2020

Kirchner argues that the Constitution doesn’t specifically prohibit a president from reversing his predecessor’s pardons/commutations.

He acknowledges this would be uncharted territory, but notes there is a first time for everything, and that this has never been tested in court.

Edited to add:
I don’t think this would involve double jeopardy, as it would not be retrying a case already acquitted.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
6. I don't think much of it at all ...
Mon Jul 13, 2020, 12:55 PM
Jul 2020

Not only do I think it would be invalid under the Constitution, it would be a terrible precedent to set. Would we want a Trump coming in and undoing all of Obama's and other previous presidents' pardons and commutations?

And this wouldn't just affect federal cases. If the reasoning held up, it could also allow the rescission of state governors' pardons and commutations, as well. It would be a mess.

Bottom line, we can't function in a system in which people - even people we can't stand - are jerked around that way. Pardons and commutations are done deals; their certainty allows people to move on with their lives. We don't live in a system in which a someone is pardoned and then has to worry about getting re-convicted if the wrong person gets elected or their sentence is commuted but they live in fear the rest of their lives wondering if they'll get thrown back in jail.

No. That idea sucks. Pardons and commutations are permanent. If we don't like them, we need to pay better attention to who we put in a position to issue them.

stopdiggin

(11,417 posts)
7. can you say banana republic?
Mon Jul 13, 2020, 01:36 PM
Jul 2020

post#5 gets it better.
But this is arm chair theorizing -- and a pretty sophomoric example at that. Not every glittery object that boils to the surface is going to be a gem. Mr. Kirschner would have done himself, and everyone else, a favor by keeping this nonsense to himself.

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