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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLegal experts have figured out a way for Roger Stone to go back to prison
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/legal-experts-have-figured-out-a-way-for-roger-stone-to-go-back-to-prison/Snip
Roger Stone, a veteran GOP operative and long-time ally of President Donald Trump, was facing a federal prison sentence when, on Friday, the news broke that Trump had commuted his sentence. Stone, who was convicted on charges including obstruction of Congress and witness tampering, will not be spending three years and four months in federal prison.
But Trump cannot issue presidential pardons at the state level, and legal experts Gerald Lefcourt and Robert C. Gottlieb argue that Stone should be prosecuted in New York State....
Bringing a new case against Stone is possible thanks to Gov. Andrew Cuomo and the New York legislature for Assembly Bill 6653, Lefcourt and Gottlieb explain. Signed into law last October, AB6653 enables New York district attorneys to prosecute what effectively amounts to certain friends and family of any president who pardoned them for federal convictions. Among the people who can be prosecuted are associates with information relevant to a civil or criminal investigation of the president. That would be Roger Stone.
Lefcourt and Gottlieb note that when Stone was prosecuted, he was accused of threatening a witness: Randy Credico and Credico lives in New York.
Ninga
(8,282 posts)Bleacher Creature
(11,258 posts)Ninga
(8,282 posts)Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)"dirty trickster". What kind of career is THAT? Where does his money come from, I wonder? Vile little s-o-b-needs to be behind bars. He would look "good" in orange, or even wide black and white stripes.He has escaped prosecution for far too many years.
musclecar6
(1,693 posts)If it works. It would be nice to see Trump not be successful being the ultimate political/legal weasel that he is.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Nevilledog
(51,285 posts)Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,513 posts)feel bad saying that? Yes, part of me. But this fucking asshole, with his life long scumbagery, has contributed to incalculable death and destruction. He might find his utter lack of humanity hilarious. But I don't. Fuck 'im and the press who coddled him for years.
gopiscrap
(23,768 posts)Arkansas Granny
(31,542 posts)Shrike47
(6,913 posts)Chainfire
(17,757 posts)Shove Stone straight up Donald Trump's derriere.
Dios Mio
(429 posts)fleur-de-lisa
(14,629 posts)patphil
(6,253 posts)Stone was convicted of lying.
He was not convicted of his actions that lead up to his lies.
Therefore, he could still be convicted of the things he did, as opposed to the things he said.
Is that true?
Fiendish Thingy
(15,707 posts)Not sure that could be charged at state level
DeSmet
(257 posts)Come into play here?
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Then maybe its ok?
NutmegYankee
(16,207 posts)Under this doctrine, the prohibition on double jeopardy does not prevent dual prosecution when the prosecutions are each by separate sovereigns. Thus, a criminal defendant can be prosecuted by a state court and then by a federal court (or the other way around). A criminal defendant may be tried by two separate state courts.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/separate_sovereigns_doctrine
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)jmowreader
(50,594 posts)Under the separate sovereigns doctrine, if you do something that's illegal at both federal and state levels, you can be charged with both.
Double jeopardy...that's where you get found innocent in one Idaho court so the prosecutor takes you to another Idaho court and refiles charges on the same offense because he doesn't want the fact that you didn't do what you were charged with to fuck up his chances for reelection.
CaptainTruth
(6,617 posts)Stone's sentence included jail time, a fine, & probation.
If Trump only commuted the jail time, the fine & probation would still be in effect & Stone could be sent to jail for violating his probation, which is a different crime than the 7 (I think) he was convicted of.
I believe that's why the judge wanted to see the text of the commutation.
neohippie
(1,142 posts)in raising the question, that gave Barr and the DOJ the opportunity after being tipped off about the judges plan to pursue a course of action, that the executive order which was probably never drafted to be written in a way that commuted, not only the jail sentence but his fines and probation too
Volaris
(10,278 posts)For the whole team to be so utterly incompetent that they cant even ratfuck this the right way...
BComplex
(8,087 posts)touched so far...just looking for them to screw this up, too.
maxsolomon
(33,461 posts)Even if he can't overturn his conviction in the courts prior to Trump leaving office, he'll simply be pardoned.
Justice has been denied, thanks to our dumb Constitution. The same one that put this Con Man in office, the same one that stacked the Federal Courts by giving rural states outsized power in the Senate.
Trump and his enablers will never pay for their frauds & lies to your (or my) satisfaction.
neohippie
(1,142 posts)Trump doesn't have the power to pardon for charges brought up by the states, but his DOJ can just keep interfering with the federal prosecutors, until he no longer controls the DOJ.
maxsolomon
(33,461 posts)I'm not sure what for though.
neohippie
(1,142 posts)The witness that Stone was intimidating lives in New York State, I believe that is in the article posted by OP
Pluvious
(4,346 posts)SayItLoud
(1,702 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)That's not unusual - they would have just had to wait in line.
kimbutgar
(21,278 posts)marble falls
(57,502 posts)Aristus
(66,527 posts)for staying out of prison.
And it's states' rights that is going to send them up the river...
erronis
(15,469 posts)on what you want and how to get it.
Nothing right or wrong, legal or illegal. Just hot air and opinions.
And the frothy right is really good at playing those tunes.
Bondor
(63 posts)I read somewhere that a future president can rescind the commutation. Is that true? Sure it would upset the Republicans, but we cannot let that stop us.
AlexSFCA
(6,139 posts)erronis
(15,469 posts)under this commutation.
Even a pardon can't remove charges against future crimes. And knowing trump and stone and the cohort, they won't be able to stop committing more crimes. It's just their nature.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)No one deserves it more than Trump and company.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,052 posts)Which could create a difficult legal situation for him. He cannot commit perjury again and count on another pardon after Trump is gone. Nor could claim the 5th since he cannot be prosecuted for crimes that he was received a pardon.
His only real option would be to >gasp< tell the truth.
TomSlick
(11,138 posts)What would be the State charge? I understand the separate sovereign proposition but the appearance of double jeopardy could trouble a judge. An argument can also be made that it is an unconstitutional end-run against the Presidential clemency power.
I'll be surprised to see a charge filed.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)TomSlick
(11,138 posts)Still sounds like a federal case.
Understand that my parents named me Thomas in a moment of prophetic insight. I'm a consistent skeptic.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Lefcourt and Gottlieb note that when Stone was prosecuted, he was accused of threatening a witness: Randy Credico and Credico lives in New York.
TomSlick
(11,138 posts)warmfeet
(3,321 posts)or a nation of men. We shall see.
REK72
(2 posts)The article says that legal action "... enables New York district attorneys to prosecute what effectively amounts to certain friends and family of any president who pardoned them for federal convictions... ".
Does the law permit prosecution for sentence commutation instead of pardoning?
wnylib
(21,783 posts)could rule in Stone's favor.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)This is a good idea. I think she has to have the written document by Thursday morning, after which time she will have a hearing. You can't litigate by tweeting, but Donnie doesn't know that. I'm sure that these minions of Trump have some "novel legal theories" to put it politely. Impolitely, it's "twilight zone" or "batshit crazy" theories.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)It's no secret that he can be prosecuted under state law.