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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA second stimulus check is useless
Last edited Tue Jul 28, 2020, 10:28 AM - Edit history (1)
putting money in the pockets of people, with no where to spend it does nothing.And it will remain this way until we get a vaccine.
It is a vast waste of resources and an obvious election ploy.
Instead, we must help people who cannot work now and small business that remain closed or will have minimal business until the vaccine arrives.
Okay, I will try to explain this again, since most completely missed the point.
There are many Americans who are hurting right now because of COVID. They have lost their jobs or the businesses they work for are closed for now. They need help. As do the small business that will not recover until there is a vaccine.
We need to target the money to those people. Not give it to everyone, which would include the majority of Americans who are still working.
The stimulus check is the GOP idea to stimulate the economy. That is fruitless, since the economy is in trouble, not for lack of money, but because businesses need to be closed down due to COVID. So the $1200 in everyone's pocket will not be spent to syimulate the economy.
Instead that money showed go to the unemployed and underemployed and to keep businesses alive until they can fully reopen.
If you are still making $50,000 or $100,000 a year, you do not need this check and it is just another GOP deficit buster.
Nature Man
(869 posts)still want their money?
$1200 doesn't go very far.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)those who lost their jobs or are not working because their employers are closed need to be help.
Those of us still working or still getting income don't need this money.
MoonlitKnight
(1,584 posts)Unemployment wasnt enough. Then you go back to work and have to wait weeks for that first paycheck.
Johnny2X2X
(19,271 posts)I do not need another check. The cutoff for the check should be much lower and the unemployed should get a check and extended UE with the extra $600.
So my wife and I, make low 6 figures, will get $4800 over the course of 5 months or so, we don't need it. All the while there are people being evicted and losing their homes and struggling to feed their families.
Our $4800 will pay some debt and we might do a small home improvement, good for the economy sure, but we aren't struggling yet.
We're blowing our wad too soon as a country. After the election there will be no will to help at all and that's when people will really need it.
Nature Man
(869 posts)edhopper
(33,663 posts)what I said?
MoonlitKnight
(1,584 posts)And I understand what you re-wrote.
Targeted relief under this administration is nearly impossible. Add to it the daily changes in impact upon the populace makes it further unfair and less likely to help those in need.
The best solution is continuous payments directly to people. Some will get a boost they do not need. The alternative is many not getting assistance that they desperately need immediately.
Other considerations no matter how well reasoned or intentioned fall behind the need for expediency. It is an unfortunate impact of the Republican Senators and Donald Trump.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)The Trump Administration is a giant obstacle to any plan.
Nature Man
(869 posts)Would they scoff at $1200?
Would it be safe to assume that there are lots of jobs that don't pay well? That you can work and still struggle?
edhopper
(33,663 posts)but using resources now, that won't help, will only hurt chances of addressing it later.
Nature Man
(869 posts)giving more money to the already wealthy.
"Addressing it later?"
Income inequality is a feature, not a bug.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)they either lose their jobs as well as the economy continues to sink, or they might get the virus and may not be able to work so having that $1200 cushion should help a little bit. Not every employer provides good sick pay benefits. But I agree with you that we need to do those other things such as helping small businesses in addition to the stimulus checks.
peacefreak2.0
(1,023 posts)Youd think theyd pad it more in an election year.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)I bet many families struggling to pay rent and put food on the table will disagree with you.
I find it odd that you claim there is nowhere to spend the stimulus money and yet youre posting this on the Internet. Why, just this morning I spent some money online on a hobby.
Ill likely put some of the next stimulus money toward more online purchases - Ive been considering upgrading my home theater to a 5.2.4 Atmos system. I may build another CNC machine.
The money is far from useless.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)not give money to everyone. Including those who don't need it and can't spend it now because businesses are closed.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Not a single business I shop at - locally or online - is closed. Some have reduced store hours, most do not.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)theaters, gyms.... And the open ones have a lower capacity.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Some have limited hours and capacity but theyre all open in some way, shape or form.
Where are you that most restaurants, theaters and gyms are closed? Further, why do you think that has anything to do with stimulus money?
edhopper
(33,663 posts)PTWB
(4,131 posts)You think folks cant spend stimulus money?
EllieBC
(3,052 posts)Also many shops offer curbside or delivery. Theres plenty to spend money on.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)are still operating at some capacity, at least the sorts of businesses that are consumer-facing. Gyms and theaters are closed, yes, but most restaurants are trying to get by with take-out and delivery. Small shops are letting in fewer people or filling orders via phone and bringing it to the front door or curb.
All of these businesses would benefit from local families having a few extra dollars that they could comfortably spend on a dinner dropped by a gig worker (who also benefits from having a delivery run) or some games to keep bored kids in lockdown entertained or some art supplies to keep the creative minds flowing.
I get your point, but your argument is built on a specious foundation.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)I am a two-channel kind of guy. But I have some good speakers so it still sounds fantastic IMO.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)dlk
(11,601 posts)Too many children in America go to bed hungry. Its a national disgrace.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)at school will be able to continue to get fed. In some places they can but not everywhere. We are lucky here. The local school district has set up a drive through facility where you can get a hot breakfast to go and a sack lunch if you were on their school lunch program.
MaryMagdaline
(6,859 posts)edhopper
(33,663 posts)beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)MineralMan
(146,351 posts)if I get it. We need to do both: Provide stimulus money and extend the additional UI payments.
Since the income my wife and I have is far under $70K, I expect that the stimulus payments will come to our house. They will get spent, I guarantee. And they'll get spent in a way that helps encourage small businesses to retain their staff and hire new employees.
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)and don't have to buy groceries and provide 3 meals a day for your kids/dependents who are home all day and aren't attending camp or going to the senior activity center or getting meals elswhere...what am I missing?
How is a 'stimulus check' sent to individuals a bad thing?
edhopper
(33,663 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It won't help everyone, but it will be useful for some. I do not believe this "helps" Trump in any way (except among those who were going to vote for him anyway).
If anything it's a reminder of how bad things are.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)and in fact it would really be already spent before they got it, because they have bills.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)We can buy almost literally anything we need online and get it within 48 hours. And even those of us still working have seen our hours reduced or our sales commissions decreased. Im glad you dont need it, but many more do.
LisaL
(44,982 posts)Spending it ain't going to be a problem.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)help your local small businesses?
Codeine
(25,586 posts)I can get delivery from all my local grocery stores, curbside drop-off for loads of small businesses (just did this with some art and hobby supplies and several boardgames in the last week), and all of our area restaurants are delivering via services like Grubhub. I do use Amazon, but I try to use a local option if available.
JI7
(89,288 posts)LisaL
(44,982 posts)If you can't figure out how to spend yours, you can send it to me.
Ohiogal
(32,178 posts)For starters, our electric bill was over $300 last month ....
edhopper
(33,663 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)on the false premise that local businesses are shut down. Many (most?) businesses in our area have opened in some capacity with delivery options or mask requirements, limited customer counts, and social distancing.
Im still working, but my income has been impacted by decreased sales commissions (largely due to supply issues.) I can still use the stimulus money, and even if I didnt need it spending it is a net economic benefit for everyone.
I know the $60 I spent on dinner last night was appreciated by the hole-in-wall Indian place letting one person at a time in to place an order or pick up a completed order.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Grocery stores, beverage stores, clothes, i.e. CC, mortgage, lease, etc.
Since I likely won't get this one either, even though furloughed, its appreciated.
Thanks!
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Tens of millions unemployed, facing eviction, waiting in long lines at food banks. For shame.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)Initech
(100,143 posts)So the checks can be used for some things.
Response to Initech (Reply #23)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
OregonBlue
(7,755 posts)will spend it as soon as it arrives.
Boxerfan
(2,533 posts)Arguing over the acorns left on the forest floor while the tree is being cut down.
The amount citizens are getting that will go right back into the economy is miniscule compared to what they gave away to corporations , churches, foriegn operations and lets forget about the 1st family grifty McGrifters grabbing hand over fist damn the emoluments clause.
At least the stimulus will help many in need. Like my family.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)the colossal corporate theft the White House is perpetrating, I agree.
MineralMan
(146,351 posts)Sadly, you are still missing the point about the stimulus money. They are going to lower the limit on income this time. Millions of people work at jobs that do not pay well enough to make life easy. I guarantee that all of those people will put that stimulus money into circulation as soon as it arrives. That will make it possible for some businesses to hire more people, which is the entire point behind a stimulus payment.
Those who are unemployed will, no doubt, get some relief as well. How much is uncertain right now, but it is not a zero sum game.
You tried to modify what you originally said, but you are still missing the point. It is not one or the other. Both are needed. while you might not need a stimulus check, millions of working Americans do need it, and will spend it immediately, stimulating the economy and increasing employment numbers.
Your view is too simplistic, I think.
sweetloukillbot
(11,155 posts)They talked about it last week, but all the commentary I've seen the past few days are that it's the same as the last round.
panader0
(25,816 posts)I live on $856 bucks a month SS. I spent the last $1200 on land taxes and a new hot water heater.
Folks like you, who must be well off, have no clue how poor people live, how hard it is to make ends meet.
sweetloukillbot
(11,155 posts)Do I think that unemployment benefits should also get priority? Absolutely.
I also suspect that paying a second stimulus is a way for Republicans to show they're paying money out without paying additional unemployment, which would doubtless be more expensive.
But to say that those of us who are firmly middle class and still employed can't use a second stimulus check, or that we don't have the means or opportunity to spend it, is just wrong.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)I have not lost hours. I don't need it right now. Give it to those who lost their job or business over this. Of course I have co-workers who are Trump supporters that want another one while bashing those unemployed getting extra money in the same breath.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)The glass is empty.
I opened, though, out of mild curiosity about responses to the claim that stimulus checks issued to hundreds of millions of working people were useless. I don't think they're a fix that would help, but you might trying thinking about some anyway. Seems like always seeing the glass as empty, or broken on the floor?, would be really hard on anyone.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)Moi?
planetc
(7,854 posts)If they send me more money, I'll donate to my local food bank again. I enjoy feeling that our president wouldn't approve of this expenditure. Now excuse me while I pick up some take out lunch from one of the small restaurants I'm trying to keep in business.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)if they gave you $1200?
planetc
(7,854 posts)So, if they send me another $1200, I have several candidates in mind for the money, since my living expenses are budgeted out until the end of the year. This is not so for the small businesses in my village & town And I used to take myself out to lunch several times a week, and now I do the same, except I eat in. I do tip more now, because who knows what awful rents my restaurants are paying, and for sure the wait staff must have been hurting. If I were Mitch McConnell, this country would be a whole different ballgame.
xmas74
(29,677 posts)There is a tire sensor on my car that needs fixed.
I do wish it was available for dependents 17 and over or for college students. With funding slashed to higher ed my daughter lost one of her scholarships. $1200 might pay for one class so she doesn't need to look at as much in student loans.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,874 posts)Better than 2 billion for that stupid wall.
Or billions to fraudulent corporations.
Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #51)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)are closed.
This isn't a recession because there isn't enough money. It is because of the many businesses closed or people don't feel safe going.
We don't need to prime the pump. We need to help those that need it until the vaccine lets us open up again.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)That is all.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Thats the very sole of an equitable economy.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)did I say they shouldn't
But why give money to couples with income of $100,000?
Polybius
(15,522 posts)Trust me, I can use it.
Polybius
(15,522 posts)Right now I can't afford it. I also need a new headboard.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)edhopper
(33,663 posts)and nope.
There is better ways to help the people who need it and also help the economy than giving everyone a check.
Not sure why that is so hard for people to see.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Caliman73
(11,760 posts)There may be better ways to help the people who need it etc, etc... The problem is that you didn't really give any specifics, at least not in your original post.
First, your thread title makes a very big assumption, "A second stimulus check is usless". It can be interpreted as a judgment and by the looks of the response, many people took it as such. The number of times you had to write, "Re-read my post" also says something about the clarity. There will always be some misunderstanding and different interpretations, but when a sizable chunk of people are responding in the same way, it might be what or how you wrote the post rather than how people are reading it.
The way I read your post, you say that "we have to help the people who cannot work now, and the small businesses that remain closed..." I understand that you are saying that money should be focused on those who are hardest hit by the situation. I agree that those who are suffering the most should get the most help.
The problem is determining who is "suffering the most". The airlines were hemorrhaging money and no one was flying. There was money set aside for them, but then they use it for stock buybacks and not to pay to retain staff. SO, they are definitely suffering, but they used any stimulus to keep their shareholders and executives paid, but not the average worker. Same with many other corporations who received money.
People are absolutely using the money that they get to "stimulate the economy" in their way. People above a certain threshold of money (I am not sure what that threshold is but I can tell you it isn't 50,000 or even 100,000) do not need a 1200 dollar check, but depending on where you live, it can pay partial rent, food, or some other necessity.
If you want to make the argument that there are better ways to help people, then make the case. Make suggestions about what can be done.
For example, have everyone register with their local government to discuss their economic situation. If they are struggling to make rent because they have been laid off or have reduced hours and salary, then they need to list it. Tell the city/county/state government who your landlord is and the fed/state/local government can work out a way to provide at least half, if not all of your rent for a few months. Another example that may help many middle class families, forgive student loan debt. Not having to shell out 1000+ dollars a month would help people to prioritize spending and saving.
Finally, like I mentioned, it isn't just people who are not working and business that are closed by health necessity that are struggling. People who make good money typically, have taken reductions in pay. I have personally taken a substantial pay cut, though I still have my job. My wife who was also making decent money, has been laid off. We are doing better than many people, but to say that we do not need assistance and the implication that only the people who are completely shut down who should get help, feels like a judgement. Everyone, except the wealthiest among us, are suffering through this situation.
You are right that the GOP's efforts in this process are not in good faith. They are looking at this from a primarily if not completely political stand point. They are trying to buy votes. Democrats however, are trying to distribute money equitably in a complex situation. The problem is that people with a lot of money, have more resources to lobby and procure even more money and often do not care about the average citizen until the pain trickles up to them, which takes quite awhile.
We do need a way to better target and distribute financial assistance. What are your suggestions?
peacebuzzard
(5,184 posts)Until there is a vaccine and the curve has been flattened.
Just one check is like throwing peanuts at the critters.
The relief bill needs more substance, just continuing the current package is fine until the new assistance and new programs are implemented.
edhopper
(33,663 posts)Help the people who need it. Target the money to people in need and the businesses that need help.
bigtree
(86,016 posts)edhopper
(33,663 posts)Don't give me the money, Give it to the people and business that need it.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)It'll pay for this trip quite nicely!
https://www.gadventures.com/trips/thailand-island-hopping/ATTW/
I can't book it for any time in the next few months, but with luck international travel will resume by next year...and in any case it can be rebooked for a later date if necessary.
Luciferous
(6,087 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)bigtree
(86,016 posts)...you need to spend a good deal to have any effect on the economy.
Not sure if your slice of America is enough to have the desired effect. Remember, almost all of the money will go into the economy, right away. That's the idea behind it. Austerity in financial slowdowns is a recipe for total collapse.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)I'm sure it will have some sort of means test. I think it was $75,000 last time but I think there is talk of lowering that this time. But that will have to be worked out in a compromise between two parties.
JI7
(89,288 posts)those small business loans. If businesses don't do well they should close. regular stimulus payments will allow help us until we find something else and get through this.
But it's stupid to throw money at businesses that won't do well.
people can open up again in the future.
Luciferous
(6,087 posts)So while we didn't spend ours on rent or utilities, ours did go back into the economy, the majority of it to local companies. I work as support staff at a school and don't know if my job will be steady this year so a second stimulus for us will probably go into savings just in case I lose my job again. So it's money that we really don't need now but could help in the future.
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)It can't be perfect, but even for imported products, you can buy it from a local retailer vs Amazon.
Luciferous
(6,087 posts)and if everything goes okay with my job we will probably use the second stimulus to replace our A.C. unit or get some electrical work done.
GoCubsGo
(32,102 posts)It needs to be at least a monthly payment.