research and read about her over the past several years.

And she acts just so hotsy totsy like the girls who were MEAN TO ME when i was in High School.
Turnabout, I WAS PRETTY, POPULAR AND REALLY COOL IN COLLEGE. I was also nice to every one.
People do change. I think blondie changed for the worst.

We have been used to having politicians who were Blue Dogs, ultra liberal, and even some lefties. There has always been a coalition that could make it work when they needed to.

The problem with Sinema seems to be that she is not operating in good faith. We know where Manchin stands. We know why he is opposed to the bills. We have a relatively good understanding of his state and the people that have allowed him to remain in his seat in a very deep red state. Not to say we like it, but we can understand it.

Sinema has told no one, what she wants, why she is tanking major Democratic Legislation, and she is mocking people. She is having secret meetings, basically caucusing with Republicans, and Democrats, including many progressives went to the mat to get her elected in purple Arizona. She is giving everybody the middle finger for no apparent reason. We know she has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from various big money groups, but that is more recent.

Like I said, she is not operating in good faith and not operating in good faith is something that only Republicans do.

Is that I believe Manchin has set policy beliefs. He's been fairly consistent overall on what he's about.

Sinema has checked every block except Republican.

And I'm not convinced if she thought switching would guarantee her reelection that she wouldn't consider it

I disagree with Manchin, a lot, but he's basically what he's always been, a Reagan Democrat.

Sinema morphs like a jellyfish.

She's got zero chance. She might lose a primary at this point. She's voted against everything she ran on.

Joe represents a very conservative state, Sinema ran as a liberal in a purple state. She's toast.

I live in Arizona. Everyone I know voted for her. No one is planning to vote for her again.

If she crosses the isle the Biden agenda is dead. Of course it might be dead anyway if we can't get her to vote for it, but I would rather at least have the chance to convince her. And if we have to play hard ball with her that's okay as long as we don't push her too far. If the GOP were to take over the Senate there would be no convincing. It would be over.

He stands with fossil fuel mongers.

Polls are a good idea of what people think, not what they will do. Do you think that the people of West Virginia would support a Democrat that was more progressive? That would support President Biden's agenda fully? I mean, it would be great and nothing would make me happier than to see the bills go through, people's lives get better, and the scourge of conservatism be swept away for the foreseeable future. Problem is when people are presented with ideas, without attribution, they will typically choose more progressive ideas. When you put any price tag on it, or put a D or R next to the proposals, that is when people start changing their opinions. It is stupid and it sucks, but that is reality.

We know Manchin stands with the fossil fuel mongers. HE IS ONE. He personally make income from investments into a family business that deals in fossil fuels. How that is even legal while he holds a seat deciding on energy policy is beyond me.

He doesn't have to say it's all Biden's idea.

Instead, he chooses to give sound bites about the sanctity of the Filibuster and the importance of helping rich people.

Which do you think would sell better?

From my own bias, I would say the "great stuff I am giving to WV residents". Realistically, you have seen people willing to die by not getting a vaccine against a preventable deadly disease to "own the libs". WV is an epicenter of that kind of thinking.

They care about red meat. How is Joe Manchin stopping the communists from invading WV. That is what they seem to respond to at the ballot box.

I would love to be wrong, but look at the history of voting in WV.

But Manchin seems more interested in cash than votes. Earmark/bribery is the most likely thing to work.

I told you that I am happy to be proven wrong. I do not like being cynical. I wish that Manchin would just go away and that someone, even a moderate would take his place.


It is hard to bribe a politician who is already being bribed, and who is personally making money from the industry that he defends.

I think Manchin sees that cash can bring votes. He is in a way stronger position in West Virginia than Sinema is in Arizona. I predict that Manchin will remain the Senator from WV for at least the next cycle, while Sinema will be out on her ass in 2025.

It seems inappropriate IMO.

What is inappropriate? The poll or the caricature? We might know the results of the poll? So what. It means we have almost unambiguous unanimous agreement. What’s not to like. The caricature is spot on. Her deceitfulness oozes out of the picture.

This fight hurts now, but burning bridges with her is just gonna push her towards (I) or soft (R).

Sinema has a highly individualistic personality. You don't persuade that type of personality by asking it to fall in line, or to go along to get along. Those arguments are antithetical to its existence. If we threaten her she's just going to turn, because turning on a centralized force is the most appealing option for an individualist!

Find some way to get her involved in the process that turns her individualism from a liability into an asset.

EDIT: And just to prove a point. I voted "Approve" even though I don't approve of her. Individualists enjoy going against the grain, and are actually thrilled when the group shames them.

And of course I voted "no." But what would be a more interesting poll would be to ask the voters of Arizona to take the poll.

We have those numbers for Dems in AZ and it's barely double digit favorables.

She can’t make up the difference in Democratic voters who won’t vote for with Republican and independent voters who will.

no matter what she does, as long as there's a D behind her name.

They wouldn’t vote for her in the Republican primary..she voted to impeach trump

they do not want the stick they might get.

Joe Manchin are (IMO) walking a fine line towards breaking the DU rule about not bashing Democrats.

using their leverage to scuttle democratic efforts to pass legislation.

Let's hear your argument.

Unfortunately, we’re stuck with her and Manchin. Our only way out is to pick up two Senate seats next year. With that said, based on the 50/50 Senate, I’d still rather have them than two GQPers.

eom

absolutely disgusting

I did a cute, perky little bounce when I gave the thumbs-down.

For fear of the Manchin and Cinema police.

I said roughly the same thing in the Manchin thread, she’s a lot better than what we’d be getting without her….Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. We should encourage candidates like her and Manchin to run in places like the Dakotas, Montana, and even in the south.

And not surprised by the poll results.

I'm not a resident of Arizona and had nothing to do with her being elected by those who are.

That is the reality of the Senate. Between the Republicans who have been elected and the very few Democrats who are not team players, we're in a tight spot in that house of Congress. Our annoyance at one or two Senators is irrelevant, really. We must deal with the Senate as it is. Wishing it were different is a waste of our time at this point.

Manchin is operating in a DEEP RED state. He has to play this role in order to secure his political future in his state.
Sinema is no John Mccain. I don't see any republicans crossing the line to vote for her in a very evenly split state.