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Kablooie

(18,645 posts)
Sun May 1, 2022, 08:59 PM May 2022

Free Speech

Most liberals used to hold the philosophy that even if they disapprove of certain speech they protect the right of the person to speak it.

I expect most of us believed that hate, tin foil hat speech and self serving lies would not be accepted by many as truth. Crazy speech would be seen for what it is by the vast majority so free speech was not a threat.

Then comes Trump who pushes all these things and a major segment of the population takes them to heart as truths to live by.
When a president spouts total lies and insanity many will believe and reject any evidence to the contrary.

So now we have the bizarre situation that Republicans want total free speech because they see how lies and deceit can fool the rubes and increase their power while Democrats want controls on speech to prevent deceptive manipulation of voters.

It's just strange how Trump has twisted up everyone's morals and values for everyone on both sides of the aisle.
Democracy can be a danger to itself when a totally inappropriate and unqualified person is elected to the presidency.

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canetoad

(17,214 posts)
1. The morals
Sun May 1, 2022, 09:03 PM
May 2022

Must have been a bit (or a lot) twisted before tfg - you don't lose your whole set of principles and values just like that. Having the president of the US as the embodiment of selfish, fascist values was just the icing on the cake.

unblock

(52,483 posts)
3. Donnie is the logical consequence of the specific propaganda effort
Sun May 1, 2022, 09:09 PM
May 2022

of foxnews and hate radio.

Politically, he was nothing more of less than the perfect foxnews viewer. Virtually everything he said was an echo of foxnews.

In It to Win It

(8,305 posts)
4. One would think people are smarter than they actually are
Sun May 1, 2022, 09:18 PM
May 2022

One would think people are rational and intelligent enough to tell what's bullshit and what isn't

One would think people would be willing to have their beliefs challenged when presented with new and credible information

One would think people would not be so spiteful to make it their sole mission to "own" people that simply disagree with them

Apparently, I overestimate many people.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
5. I think you'll find that "most liberals" is a pretty US-specific thing
Sun May 1, 2022, 09:22 PM
May 2022

other countries have various curbs on speech and free expression (for instance laws against Holocaust denial, or inciting racial hatred, etc). Over a decade of living outside the US made me realise that American conceptions of "free speech" are actively harmful to promoting a civil society.

Jim__

(14,093 posts)
6. Republican support for free speech is extremely limited.
Sun May 1, 2022, 09:33 PM
May 2022

Republicans believe that Republicans should be free to say whatever they want. However, people in favor of free speech don't ban books. People in favor of free speech don't prohibit teachers from speaking on a list of "forbidden" topics. People in favor of free speech don't forbid legislators from using certain words.

Republicans are not advocates of free speech.

J_William_Ryan

(1,761 posts)
7. All liberals support and defend free speech - that's what it is to be a liberal.
Sun May 1, 2022, 09:46 PM
May 2022

And that hasn’t changed.

The doctrine of free speech concerns solely the relationship between government and those governed, not between or among private persons or private entities.

To denounce, oppose, and condemn rightwing hate speech, conspiracy theories, misinformation, and lies is not to ‘violate’ the doctrine of free speech.

Republicans/conservatives are enemies of free speech – Florida Republicans are among the more reprehensible examples of that, with measures seeking to violate the First Amendment rights of social media, silence educators concerning gay and transgender Americans, and intimidate private corporations who reject the right’s anti-gay agenda.

Trump actually hasn’t twisted anything up – Republicans/conservatives are just as dishonest now as before Trump, with just as much contempt for facts and the truth; and liberals remain champions of the doctrine of free speech, opposing the right’s authoritarian efforts compel conformity and silence dissent.

ymetca

(1,182 posts)
8. It's the oldest debate
Sun May 1, 2022, 09:46 PM
May 2022

And the overlap between other Constitutionally guaranteed rights makes it much more complex.

Eventually it all gets "worked out" with the 2nd Amendment -- the "final arbiter" in any "free speech" argument, eh?

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