him up.

Link to tweet

But I trust Fox News about as far as I can throw my house.

Not exactly overwhelming evidence of a court order. More like some rando tweeting.

Link to tweet

He has earned it, though I cannot find that such an order has been issued, yet.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/trumps-threatening-post-flagged-by-us-prosecutors-judge-2023-08-05/

[link:https://www.meidastouch.com/news/judge-comes-down-hard-on-trump-for-making-threats|

It’s about time. He needs to shut the fuck up or be on home confinement wearing an ankle bracelet. No more Nuremberg rallies.

And no credibility.

[https://apnews.com/article/trump-election-capitol-riot-indictment-protective-order-71cd642e876c47fff4e1283c15f8ca01

Prosecutors ask judge to issue protective order after Trump post appearing to promise revenge
By ALANNA DURKIN RICHER
Updated 10:46 AM CDT, August 5, 2023

The Justice Department has asked a federal judge overseeing the criminal case against former President Donald Trump in Washington to step in after he released a post online that appeared to promise revenge on anyone who goes after him.

Prosecutors on Friday requested that U.S. District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan issue a protective order concerning evidence in the case, a day after Trump pleaded not guilty to charges of trying to overturn his 2020 election loss and block the peaceful transition of power. The order, different from a “gag order,” would limit what information Trump and his legal team could share publicly about the case brought by special counsel Jack Smith.

Chutkan on Saturday gave Trump’s legal team until 5 p.m. Monday to respond to the government’s request.

Such protective orders are common in criminal cases, but prosecutors said it’s “particularly important in this case” because Trump has posted on social media about “witnesses, judges, attorneys, and others associated with legal matters pending against him.”

...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

breaking the court's orders.
********
Donald Trump swore in court yesterday he would not attempt to influence or intimidate witnesses, retaliate against anyone, or in any other way attempt to obstruct the administration of justice.

“Are you prepared to comply?” the magistrate judge asked.

“Yes,” Trump replied.

******

Make him appear before the court himself on Monday then take him into custody for violating the courts orders
and then release him on Tuesday or Wednesday so he can appear before Fani Willis in Georgia.

for a protective order relative to discovery materials to be turned over to TFG's lawyers. Smith added a reference to TFG's post at the last minute to emphasize why certain materials must not be disclosed to the public, particularly the names and statements of witnesses. Of course the judge was going to require a response. More is being made of this than should be - it's not a motion for a change in TFG's conditions of release, or for a contempt order, or anything of the sort. That could come later, of course, if he does it again. But this is all regular procedure - certainly what you'd see in a mob trial.

Then the unnecessary backtracking, while the rule of law marches on completely oblivious.

And I don't think this judge will have any of it.

It is a normal motion for a protective order to ensure that names and statements of witnesses and other discovery materials are not released to the public after they are turned over to the defense. Justice is not being "delayed." Normal procedures are being followed. The magistrate judge has been made aware of TFG's fake Xitter post and his lawyers have to respond to the prosecution's motion on Monday. But nobody is going to jail unless or until the court decides that TFG has violated the conditions of his release. That's the way the system works, due process and all that.

If so, why not the orange clown with the loud mouth? People doing his dirty work for him as always?

There is no need for a live court appearance. There is no motion before the court at this point to alter the conditions of TFG's release, so neither he nor his lawyer have to appear.

The prosecution made a motion for a protective order. The magistrate judge notified TFG's lawyers that they have to respond to the motion by COB on Monday. That's it.

which does sound like the judge saying "clearly we need a protective order, we just need to decide the wording".

Link here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67656604/united-states-v-trump/

the only issue is what should be included. It will be interesting to see how TFG's lawyers respond (and they will also be on the hook if they give their reprobate client materials he discloses or fake-Xits about). Recall that in the documents case TFG wanted to look at the classified materials in the comfort of his home rather than in a SCIF as the law expressly required, so I expect he'll want some kind of special treatment wrt this stuff, too. But I don't think he'll get it; these judges don't play.

is what should be included in the protective order, which is normal procedure.

to people who clearly don't know how any of this works. I actually have a law degree, and although I've been retired for awhile I do have a pretty good idea how routine discovery motions, which this is, are handled.

Once again: There was already a motion for a protective order in the works in which the prosecutors outlined for the court how they wanted certain evidence to be handled by the defense, to be sure the names and statements of witnesses were not disclosed to the public. Just before Smith filed it with the court, TFG posted his threatening fake tweet. At the last minute Smith included it in the motion so the court would be aware of it and to emphasize the need to protect the names of witnesses. Smith's motion does not include a request for any change in TFG's conditions of release, or a gag order, or anything directly related to TFG's conduct. The court promptly ordered his lawyers to respond by COB on Monday. It's clear that a protective order will be granted; the only question is what it will include and how those materials will be handled.

What has not happened yet is any process relating directly to TFG's post. This would require the court to determine whether the content of the post was specific enough to violate the terms imposed on him, and if so, what should be done about it. That's a separate procedure and so far that hasn't happened, though it could and probably should. But once again, this protective order motion is NOT about sanctioning TFG for his post.

Last edited Sat Aug 5, 2023, 03:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Bottom line is he is being called to the carpet for doing exactly what he was told NOT to do.

All of them. The title line of the op is not sufficient.

will show up and respond to the judge's order.

At 5:00 Monday, Anal Fistula will be in his suite watching the news update that will allow him at the next rally, 'See, nothing happened, It is all fake,"

reads only the title line and doesn't want to understand the process? Hello? Hello? Is this thing on?

I hear you saying that the defendant's attorneys were going to be required to respond with their redlined mark-up of the protective order's particulars by Monday, 5 PM regardless of anything Trump may have, in the interim, done or said. It was all a matter of course and procedure. That Trumps mockery of his conditions is in the news is coincidental and not the reason for the Monday deadline.

Have I got this right? I seldom do get what lawyers swear they're saying. It's as if there are intentionally two distinct languages whose whole purpose is to separate the practice of law from the layman and they're both called English.

So, it is a response to his tweets.

So, in a way Trump is being called out on his behavior.

Will Trump be labeled a COWARD if he chooses not to testify. People want to know.

Fifth Amendment right not to testify at the trial itself that everyone else does - and the judge will instruct the jury that no inference may be drawn about guilt or innocence from his refusal to testify. TFG might want to do it, but his lawyers are insane if they let him.

My comment is made in regards to all upcoming court matters not to the current situation. I know that Trump is a coward and want people to start asking him that question, relentlessly. Need to use same strategies the right uses when they try and attack Biden. If Trump is consistently called a coward he will of course be very perturbed and hostile, but that question must continue to be asked. Both Hillary and Bill Clinton testified...why won't the COWARD.

In his case, refusing to testify wouldn't be cowardly; it would be smart, since if he does he will string himself up with his own tongue. Neither of the Clintons ever testified in a criminal trial in which they were defendants, so that's apples and oranges.

He can also be called out for refusing to testify. Good to point out The Clinton's didn't commit any felonies. Trump is a hideous human being and invoking his rights might be only time he actually recognizes the Constitution. Not looking to figure out what's best for him...looking to have him exposed and brought down. He is a destructive cowardly narcissist and a blight upon humanity.

will ask him that question.

they've got a dilemma because they don't want to be in the position of suborning perjury. If a lawyer knows his client will lie and can't be talked out of it, the lawyer will probably have to ask the judge for permission to withdraw from representation (outside the hearing of the jury, of course) and to have another attorney appointed. The lawyer can't tell the judge why he wants to withdraw, but the judge will probably figure that out pretty quickly, and if so might (rarely) deny the substitution request. In that event, the lawyer might have to ask to withdraw and have the client proceed on his own. There was a Supreme Court case, Nix v. Whiteside, where the lawyer told his client that if he gave perjured testimony, the lawyer would question him, effectively cross-examining his own client and exposing the lies (the right of a criminal defendant to assistance of counsel is not violated when an attorney refuses to cooperate with the defendant in presenting perjured testimony at his trial).

So, let's watch the fun if Agent Orange does insist on testify in any of his trials. If his lawyers start disappearing suddenly we'll know why.

not only to have him on the stand but to see if his lawyers will recuse themselves.

the lawyer first has to warn the client that he will have to withdraw if the client intends to lie under oath. My guess is that Agent Orange would back down and decide not to testify rather than lose his lawyers in the middle of the trial, because that would give away the fact that he planned to lie. But with him you never know. He's getting steadily crazier and by the time he has to show up for a trial he could be so barking mad that he'll fire his lawyers, represent himself, go all Q-Anon on the stand, and be hauled off in restraints by federal marshals. Stay tuned, it can only get weirder.

If his lawyers withdraw, he will need time to get new ones. He can rinse and repeat. What would the judge do at this point ? Assign a court appointed lawyer?

by appointing counsel, and warning TFG that he can't keep doing that. He can take the stand or not, plead the Fifth or not, or represent himself or not, but the trial will continue regardless.

Fun is watching him blow up every time a repoter asks him "Mr.President some are calling you a coward for not wanting to testify, what do you day to those who say acting cowardly by not?" Now that would not only be fun it would dismantle his fragile ego and ultimately force him to testify so he can protect his small mushroom penis. Reporters need to be relentless and force this rat out into the sunlight of truth.

of the discovery material, to which the Trump team was required to respond, and for which the judge will make a final decision.

...D.C. courts don't play.

and there's no motion before the court relating to whether TFG's conditions of release should be modified on account of his post. That could happen later - especially if he does it again - but that's not what this protective order motion is about.

Last edited Sat Aug 5, 2023, 01:55 PM - Edit history (1)

...everyone can see the threat and the SC response.

Whether it's specifically about a 'protective order, or not, Trump's threat is part of the prosecution proposal, as is their assertion that his 'social media posts' could have a 'chilling effect' on "witnesses, judges, attorneys" and others. That's not routine. This isn't just some benign, boilerplate protective order.

What's lost in this 'routine' view of the proposal is the backdrop of utterly abberent behavior from the Defendant in question. There's no way that the judge isn't going to be made more sensitive to any future prosecution motion seeking to hold Trump accountable for any future threats.

This is a very timely response. I'd think if there wasn't an urgency which the judge agrees with, this motion wouldn't come this soon, right after the weekend Trump made his threat and she was made aware of it. She doesn't need any more prodding than this to be alerted to this violation of the court order.

There's going to be a response from the judge, I'd bet, to the specific threat Trump is posing with his posts. She's not rendered deaf, dumb, and blind by the 'routineness' of this protective order.

Laurence Tribe 🇺🇦 ⚖️ @tribelaw 22m
Excellent. Judge Chutkan is responding with full speed to Trump’s defiance by giving him a fair opportunity to explain why he shouldn’t be shut down.

Link to tweet

is taking advantage of Trump's threat by filing the Protective Order rather than continuing to try to work it out with defense counsel.

New response from Prosecution (they're trying to delay Discovery, ignore them):

Link to tweet

Sadly, many people will just continue to think it means something other than what it does mean.

On the whole, Americans have very little understanding of the law, the courts, or what any of what happens actually means. I admire your patience in trying to explain it.

and people want their pound of flesh and they want it now, due process be damned. I am often amazed not only at the widespread ignorance of basic legal principles, but the unwillingness to learn about them, as well as the authoritarian streak that can arise even in liberals when the law doesn't give them what they want.

Thanks for your support!

despite understanding much of how it all works. So, I can't explain things as clearly as you do.

As you say, an "unwillingness to learn" is part of the problem. We want to continue to believe what we believe, even when presented with information that tells us that what we believe is incorrect. For some, that extends to the point of arguing beliefs from ignorance, and that's something that rarely works out well, really.

More of a short attention span....

It has been anything but slow. Setting timelines for the 2 sides to propose trial dates at the arraignment is unusual, and judge Chutkan plans to decide on a trial date by Aug. 28th.

This isn't slow.

and expertise.

... please keep up the effort. I've learned a lot from your posts (on this and other occasions), and it is much appreciated!

Remember, for every one who does not get it, there are ten who do, even if they don't post a reply!

One of the reasons people, in general, do not understand how legal matters work is simply one of language.

The legal profession, along with our legislatures, use language in ways that are unfamiliar to the average person. In this particular case, the confusion comes from the word "minute" in "minute order."

Like many words in English, "minute" has multiple meanings. Most often, people understand it as a discrete measurement of time. Most people are also familiar with its use as an adjective, meaning "very small," as in a "minute particle." When used that way, it is pronounced differently. We are less familiar with its usage that means "a record." If we use the word in the plural form, "minutes," we recognize that usage as in "minutes of a meeting." So, in courtroom speak, "minute order" simply means an order that has been recorded in the minutes of the case by a clerk of the court. The minutes of a case are a day-by-day, hour-by-hour, minute-by-minute record of the proceedings.

But that never gets explained, because you have to go through a paragraph to explain what a "minute order" is. So, most people have no idea what is being talked about. Confusion breeds error, and away we go.

the minute orders usually aren't produced on paper at all, or in .pdf form, they're just these short little entries about some procedural matter that appear on the electronic docket. That's all this was - a short order setting a deadline for the defense's response to the protective order motion.

Some would call it boring, but...

Link to tweet

And to do that he may have to be arrested and put in jail.

TFG is going to delay this case as long as possible

Link to tweet

What's covered in the proposed protective order has been known to the defense for ages, probably since the 1/6 Committee hearings. But yeah, they'll try to string out everything, no matter how minor, for as long as possible, and then whine that TFG isn't being treated fairly. I hope they find out right now that the magistrate and the judge don't play.

If he does it again, she'll call Trump in directly.

IMHO, it should be apparent that we have to learn how this system works from the bench.

only the protective order on evidence. I hope she deals with this veiled threat to everyone and anybody that has a part in his legal problems.

cutting Trumpy lots of slack.

But then, the man is dumb as a stick, has no control over his own tongue, and thinks mistakenly he can make this go away as he always has - through bluster and lies.

It appears the DOJ has given him just enough rope to hang himself.

How many time does it take telling him not to do something, before he is locked up ?

30 months and counting

.... on Thursday and I don't know when he posted his threat on line Friday and then he repeated
his crap Friday in the PM in one of his Bund Rallies in Alabama that evening.

House arrest with an ankle monitor too. If you or I had been told by the court not to do something and or
say something and less then 1 day later we did not follow the court's order our ass would be under arrest PDQ.

*******

Prosecutors alert judge to Trump’s ‘If you go after me, I’m coming after you!’ post

Federal prosecutors asked U.S. District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan to issue a protective order in the case a day after Trump pleaded not guilty to charges of trying to overturn the results of his 2020 election loss.

https://www.pressherald.com/2023/08/04/prosecutors-alert-judge-to-trumps-if-you-go-after-me-im-coming-after-you-post/

and remove his electronic devices.

I said yesterday that locking him up now would give him access to guys who would kill anyone he told them to for a hundred dollars and access to a gun. TFG will never sully his own soft, pink little hands. He'll hire somebody else to do his dirty work.

Allowing him access to such people at this stage of the game is a mistake.

In fact, house arrest in something that can be secured, like that horror show of a penthouse in NYC, would be better than prison and for the same reason.

The only thing this guy loves besides himself is golf. Take that away and listen to him squeal. It will never happen but taking his golf outings away is the only thing that would get him in line. IMO

The guy needs attention and one-up-manship the way sane people need oxygen.

C'mon, this is not a purely rational person like most people here. He's all id. He'll just delay, delay, delay. Or just ignore it, force the court to put liens on his properties, some of which will be flooding by the time he kicks the bucket.

I realize his lawyer should be in the room but this should be no one other than DJT himself standing in front of a judge (maybe even in an orange jump suit with big DOC letters painted on the back.)

Explaining in excruciating detail using his own worn out minuscule vocabulary on what part of the previous proceeding he didn’t understand when he said “Yes”and then give him a unrelenting and comprehensive understanding of why his is going to jail and not back to a posh country club. This pos and this period needs to be ended once and for all.

We have an enormous problem again caused by the gop and their continued blocking of any progress for literally decades now on stopping the destruction of our biosphere by industry for little pieces of green paper. That needs attention and resources to fix.

We don’t have time to spend on a worn out 70yr old drug addict who killed over 1.1 million Americans lying about COVID, attacked the capitol, stolen TS documents, obstructed justice, convicted of fraud (several times), abused the office of President, paid $130k to cover up an affair, convicted of assault, indicted for numerous other crimes, multiple emoluments violations who is now openly threatening this country.

Enough already. Capt. Bonespurs P Grabber needs to be shut down with extreme prejudice, now.

[link:https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149.11.0_1.pdf|]

Did you read it?

I have to admit, I thought I saw the words.

I may have been confused by this information which proceeded it on the site with the pdf. But I can't explain why I thought it clearly said "approved". Sorry about that. Thanks for pointing it out.

MINUTE ORDER as to DONALD J. TRUMP: A status conference will be held in this matter on August 28, 2023 at 10:00 AM in Courtroom 9 before Judge Tanya S. Chutkan. The court waives the requirement for Defendant to appear at that conference. It is hereby ORDERED that Defendant shall file any motion for excluding the time until the next status conference from the Speedy Trial Act clock by August 8, 2023; and that the government shall file any opposition to that motion by August 13, 2023. It is FURTHER ORDERED that by August 10, 2023, the government shall file a brief proposing a trial date and providing an estimate of the time required to set forth the prosecution's case in chief during that trial; and that by August 17, 2023, Defendant shall file a response brief likewise proposing a trial date and estimating, to the extent possible, the time required to set forth the defense at trial. Signed by Judge Tanya S. Chutkan on 8/3/2023. (ztl)

Doesn't matter, though, since the judge quickly denied the motion for extra time; they still have to respond to the prosecution's protective order request by COB on Monday.

Jack Smith rejects the need for delay

Link to tweet

Link to tweet