They should do some of their precious polls and they will see that the majority of Americans do not support restrictions on abortion, any restrictions. To say they would limit it to a 15 week ban is just insulting. They have become so moralistic they have no practical politics anymore

I’ve seen no polling that shows a majority of Americans favor abortion with no restrictions.

I really think religious people are gonna answer the way they think their religion should answer. But when it comes down to personal choices that’s different

Are there polls that say the majority of Americans favor abortion with no restriction or aren’t there?

As I said, I haven’t seen any, but as you stated that there are, I’m assuming you’ve seen them.

Much appreciated!

Abortion should ______

Only be discussed about by a woman and her medical health provider. Everyone else's opinion is bullshit.

'Anytime' is a far cry different from 'when it is medically necessary'

And I won't even begin to try to define 'medically necessary,' because as I previously stated, that's none of my damned business. It's only between a woman and her doctor.

Maybe I'm misguided.

I just don't think it's a conversation that should be entertained. We're talking about other peoples' personal health choices. Maybe there should have been an option on the poll that said 'I don't even have a uterus so it's none of my damned business, leave the women alone.'

a woman's body. I see where the politics comes from, but this is a medical procedure that should be decided by a woman, especially if the pregnancy puts her health at risk. Politicians just should not be involved period.

And I think abortion access, climate change and gun control are going to drive millions of young votes this time around.

I don't think one way or the other about polls because more often than not, the questions are leading, based on the ideology of the people paying for the poll.

Absolutely! The health insurance industry will take care of that just as it does in all other healthcare issues.

I'm pretty sure the anti-choice movement, political suicide yet apparently adopted by Republicans, is ultimately about healthcare writ-large more than about the morality or regulatability of abortions. I mean, really, Republicans don't act unless there's a pay-day upside. It's the pro-forma, go-to, modis operandi and opening act in all their productions. I figure the deal gels somewhere in healthcare since they really already run the whole show anyway. If nothing else, it's "Democrats threaten this status quo".

Come on, thats a silly statement.

And I'd bet an informal poll here would show you to be in the minority
And the GOP pushes that point daily to claim the Dem party is "extreme".

That there should be ZERO limits to why & when a woman can get an abortion.

A person’s medical procedures should be private. You are welcome to your opinion on this. I just don’t see how it’s feasible to restrict abortions in any way. Is every miscarriage to be investigated by law-enforcement?

You think a woman who's 8+ months pregnant should just be able to walk in & get an abortion no questions asked. Because thats "no restrictions"
You say medical reasons are most late term. Fine, thats a reason. We're talking a minuscule amount anyway but your statement is a tried & true GOP advertisement.

To have a baby after all, so she would abort it. I don’t think that happens. As far as the polling and the GOP talking points, they’re the ones that overturned Roe to begin with. Why should we listen to anything they say. I’m sorry it has become a campaign issue. But there’s such a thing as basic human rights

Thats your opinion. And just like a total ban costs GOP votes, a totally UNrestricted position will cost Dem votes. Just look a the polls. Yours is an extreme position. You're free to have it, just be aware of what comes with it if the PARTY were to adopt it. Thankfully they wont. Kansas has shown the GOP their worst fears; their own voters dont agree with the party platform. Dont give them a reason to go back to them

It is HER body. Nobody else's. Not yours, not the unborn fetus, not mine not the government. IT. IS. HER. BODY.


Period.

You seem to think this is a really untenable position. (which is why I assume you are belaboring this thread?) I'm here to say - "hold my beer!" There's actually quite a few of us that believe in an absolute right to choose. Any time, for any reason.

(I don't necessarily expect that a post-Roe world is going to look like that. And wiser heads know that politics engenders compromise. But I am not at all afraid of publicly voicing support for the position I espouse.)

As I said before the GOP WANTS to portray the Democratic party as the party of extremism. Having a nonsensical stance like this is a GIFT to them. NO POLL anywhere will show more than a few digits of support for a woman to be able to end a pregnancy for ANY reason when she's 36 or whatever advanced months along. The official Dem Party position isnt even close to that. The GOP is on the LOSING side of this issue & people coming out and saying "Yes, anyone at anytime for any reason!" will pull the reigns back hard
I support the official position that most Democratic candidates run on

does not make a personal belief 'irrational' or unworthy of 'voice.' My personal belief is that there should be a strong wall between church and state - and that legal immigration to this country should be increased at least 4 or 5 fold. Neither of those things has any chance at all of actually happening - but neither does it make either a 'nonsensical stance.'

And no where in my post (or others you are responding to) will you find a demand, or even a suggestion, that this must be the Democratic party's position. Nor do I say that it is (or ever has been) majority position. What I do say is that it is a personal position with perfectly logical and legitimate support. And I'm sorry but I'm not going to change that position (or be shushed back into the corner) for the convenience of the 24 election cycle.

I will also vote for the 'official position' of the Democratic party, and candidates. (while having some nuanced positions of my own) I invite you to do the same.

-------- ----------

months and then decide "Gee, I've changed my mind, I don't want to have a baby. I'm just gonna run in and get an abortion."

which according to you never occurs in the first place? Especially considering the political impact, i.e, Democrats allow abortion for whatever reason up to and including the day before expected delivery?

You said it with a lot fewer words. I just dont get it.

cretins pull out of their asses as gospel. But enjoy your Republican bullshit. No doctor is going to abort a viable fetus the day before it is born. Murder is against the law. But keep trying to get that disgusting Republican lie out there.

Yes, at times there are medical reasons that REQUIRE it. Our previous laws allowed for that.
But can you see my point about literally saying "No restrictions" & the blowback from it? The eventual poke at me will be that I'm anti-choice; which is totally wrong. I'm just anti-nonsense.

Politics should have no place in our health decisions for anyone. Abortion is a medical procedure that is, like all other health procedures, private. Last night’s debate on this issue gave me a headache with DeSantis repeating the lie that we want abortions up to birth..what does that even mean? Late abortions are done rarely and it’s a dire situation not some bs about the woman all of a sudden changing her mind. Is there any other health procedure that is by law restrictive? Any procedure for the men? This is control and cruel. These candidates throwing out “ I’ll give em 6 weeks…I’ll give em 15 weeks”. Give us our rights to choose and stay out of our decisions.

It’s like GOP candidates are in a bidding war to find out who can restrict abortion to less weeks.

Than the scourge of guns that are affecting everyone. Or climate challenges as their denials about both that relate to life. They have no policies for either issue but when it comes to a uterus, they’re all up in it. I can assure you, you are not alone.

Saying it probably doesnt happen isnt an answer to give in a debate.
And as a previous post asked, if the likelihood of someone just "changing her mind" is so remote, then why not outlaw that?
This is just like the NRA; "NO restrictions!!" Yet most members support some gun laws.
If Joe Biden is standing on a stage & answers an abortion question with "There should be no restrictions at all" it will be a disaster.

It's nobody's fucking business.

A woman having to decide whether to abort or not is experiencing enough stress, emotion and sadness, she doesn’t need state troopers deciding for her.

It is appalling that anyone in government would think they have a right to interfere with a woman's personal medical decisions.

I support abortion rights with no restrictions.

could beat Biden easily.

I don't subscribe to that. If Democrats, women, young people, minorities turnout in a massive way in 2024, not only will President Biden win reelection, but we will control both Houses of Congress.

There is no daylight on policy between anyone on that stage and trump.
They literally spent their entire time kissing Trump's ass and talking about how they agree with Trump and would pardon him.

I like the guest analysts on the call though, & i can tolerate Mika.

You also cant discuss them here openly.

Although I do not agree with all his policies at least we have stuff in common which I cannot say for the most of the republican party. For that reason I like Morning Joe.

Once you start advocating for national abortion ban I'm out.
We are not treating half our population like they are 2nd class citizens that don't have the right to control their own bodies.

which our nation DESPERATELY needs to regain the dominance it once had on the right. For over 70 years, when dangerous extremists got active, and they did, moderate conservatives and liberals, and some strong conservatives too, would ally in a majority that protected our democracy and the stability we need to pursue our happiness.

United we stand, divided we fall. That what that means.

which give Scar no credit for anything except dysfunction.

He thinks we watch MSNBC in the morning because of him.

No. We watch MSNBC and he is what's on. I'd love to see him go.

Still, somehow, CNN manages to be worse.

Chris Matthews is bizarre behavior to me. Why? What insight could the guy possibly offer?!!

He's quite knowledgeable, despite his general loathsomeness.

But, as a host, he was awful. He was always talking over his guests, and would occasionally make really weird sometimes sexualized comments.

..was one of the weirdest things he ever said. He was definitely past his TV expiration date when he was fired.

Just saying Mathews doesn't do this sh*t on other people's shows. I guess he wants to be invited back.

Yeah, I can't get over his smarminess either.

..probably more than a tingle. 😵?💫

tons of times. The attraction between them was based on Tweety's own wingnut tendencies and Scabs' willingness to engage to browbeat Libs. Both Scabs and Mika Mouse seem to show a tiny bit of deference or gratitude or honor to persons from their past: Scabs with Tweety, Mika Mouse who hosted Dan RATHER with reverence after he was railroaded (she worked under him at CBS). She also hosted HALPERIN after he was disgraced (for sexual harassment?).

I'll skip the chestnut of their courtship and marriage, but will never give them a pass for peddling Drumpf in 2015, giving him tons of free air time and pushing him as being viable as a candidate. They chased after him, him willingly at first, till he got p.o.ed at them for who knows why and attacked them, leading to their current unpleasantness with him.

And boom! There he appears! I did not miss him, and I wish he'd take Scarborough with him.

Someone who couldn't even make the debate stage....the irrelevance of CNN is sad

So the complete bans, bounties on women crossing State line nonsense, clinic TRAP laws, and "heartbeat" bills in many GOP states would automatically be reversed?

Sounds like they know the current GOP abortion stance will cost the GOP many statewide and ALL National political offices. The GOP created this mess courting single issue voters, which worked well until those voters started running in and winning elections.

nonsense. Just because his relatives in Alabama or wherever might say that doesn't mean most people in this country think that way.

... on the procedure.

MAGA can only win with the MoJo crowd using semantics

issue and they all know it. Nothing else matters to a large percentage of people. Parsing time limits just adds insult to injury

What really sucks is that now there's four hours of him and his ego.

Keep yourself pure, man.

Joe is always playing the "Aw shucks" role while Mika goes with the breathless pearl clutching.

in CA and am asleep while he is on. The few times I have seen him (when I have insomnia) makes me sick and I change the station ASAP! He LOVEs the sound of his own voice and goes on and on and on and on..... No one else can get a word in edgewise . He is a bore and a narcissist.

Ronald Reagan who he adores.

Bill Clinton who he despises.

Ever so often he has to make a "dig" at Clinton and fails to remind his audience of the major missteps of the Reagan administration. Joe's stripes haven't changed.

My otherwise crafty wife is a daily viewer...eesh.

1960's era CCC comment on racial issues. Matthews is both a serial sexual harasser of women and an anti woman bigot from any reasonable reading of this coverage of women candidates for office (especially Hillary in 2007 and 2008).

Not only the bible, but even the early Christian church never seemed to care about the unborn fetus being of any moral consequence. It's with feudal times, where the lord of the lands (king, baron, duke, etc., etc.) was the owner of the lands and also owned the serfs who worked the land who turned over most of the produce of the land to the lord. It was then that abortion was usually declared a mortal sin. After all the lords of the manor did not want to diminish the labor supply. It was many centuries later that the pope declared that life began at conception, not at the first breath of the newborn, which was the accepted standard and is in much of the non-Christian world.

all of our so-called news programming is

That's a HUGE difference between over the 170 million who feel as Scarborough does and the fringe ideologic extremes who call them murderers.

It's actually extremely important to democratic victory that we recognize our allies.

AND that we not demonize and regard as enemies all who don't share all our own positions exactly. That'd be extreme, antidemocratic in effect, and severely weakening.

A large majority of Americans support legalized abortion. That's our strength and why we'll be able to restore legal abortion.

Scarborough won't be throwing any bombs If the new law doesn't reflect his exact preference. He will accept the consensus.

On abortion with Scarborough and especially Republicans.


No legal limits of ANY KIND. Doesn't mean anyone wants an abortion while you are in delivery. The decision is that of the person needing reproductive healthcare to choose in consultation with their healthcare team and those they trust.

Each individual makes the right choice for themselves. No one else. that is all people want.

Same for zero-consensus others wired to no abortion at any point.

True believing can be a bitch; but, in that respect at least, we do all have our own roads to stumble down. Not sure it's always free choice for everyone, but that's life.

No restriction at any time for any reason abortion is not where the country is, nor I would guess, Will be anytime soon

Celerity posted some poll info earlier in this thread (thank you Celerity!) that shows where we are as a country (and a party) right now.

more people paying attention. It's what we had under Roe.

So people want to physically force a woman to undergo what can be a incredibly physically and mentally painful medical event against their will?

Explain to me like I'm 5 years old how allowing each person, in consultation with their medical team and other trusted resources, to come to the decision that is right for them and their situation, in any way extreme?

But as to your request, it might be problematic to get a 5-year-old to understand that eventually -- WHEN being the eternally argued question -- a woman's reproductive system turns ONE person into TWO persons AND that society then has a duty to protect the rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of both.

I hope, though, that all the decades you had to live with Roe (a "between" consensus that fetal viability at roughly 24 weeks would be what a majority of disagreeing people could agree on) weren't too distressing. It's likely that someday we will pass a similar national law again -- because we have a representative democracy and nearly 3/4 of Americans say they specifically want legalized abortion, but with some legal limits to be agreed on.

Assuming we save our democracy, of course. An authoritarian Christian nationalist government might make all abortion illegal. A secular authoritarian state also. More reproduction produces more workers after all. It's horribly probable, though, that both would require abortion in some cases or some populations. But we're not going to let either happen.

Happy afternoon.

At least not in a specific way.

So I'll ask it this way:
So when the government passes the mandate on a specific timeframe until when a women loses control of her body and she becomes the property of the state. So will they concentrate those women into camps to force them to give birth against their will or against advice of a doctor?

Already seen what "protect the life of the mother" means in many states as many women, including someone I know, suffer permanent damage and significant psychological distress as they struggle to survive a system that truly doesn't care about them or their health.

I will never understand a society, generally speaking, that treats 50% of its population like they are 2nd class citizens only viable as servants and brood mothers.

I'm afraid our perceptions are on nonintersecting lines that, instead of converging, are diverging more with each post.

Of course women never become "property of the state." Please believe at least that Democrats are a committed anti-human-property party.

Have a nice evening. The Defendant has announced he's scheduled to be arrested at 7:30 p.m.

I think you've kind of left the rest of us behind, Chair. The distance between the Morning Joe discussion - and the dystopian landscape you are now treading ... Maybe we could talk again in the morning?

------ ------------- -----

MAGA wants a ***BAN*** at 15 weeks with no exceptions, I don't see any polling where Americans want straight ***BANS***.

MoJo could've just said he support Roe and that has stipulations after 15 weeks without a ***BAN*** on abortion in regards to any timeline.

MAGA is monsters and trying to win with semantic stupidity, MoJo should've thought about what he said

Why punish yourself first thing in the morning?

watch. I don't get the hate on him. I like the folks he has on. As for abortion rights we put that in our Constitution here in Michigan. Our taxes are lower, we have jobs & we put LGBTQ+ protections into law. Move here and you will be most welcomed.

who trash trump are hypocrites. They like to say they are better than trump and on a higher plane. But they supported all of the policies and party decisions that led to trump. They wooed and accepted the racist votes. They voted to hurt women. They voted to cut SS and Medicare. They cut taxes on corporations and the rich which led to the economic mess that Biden is trying to fix.

They are shit until they acknowledge their "sins" and begin to atone.

Joe's beef with trump has always been personal more than political. He got pissed when trump dissed Mika.

worth listening to.

We're not going to agree with everything someone believes in. As long as he's just a talking head voicing an opinion and no longer a politician, that opinion will not impact Democratic policy on abortion. Which is strongly, stridently pro-choice.

you're my man, Tim.

It's the assault on reproductive healthcare in the this country. On how easily people are willing to compromise the rights of another human being.
People that, for the first 143 years this country existed didn't even have the right to vote. And for the first 196 years of this country couldn't get a bank loan or bank account without a man's permission.
That until very recently (60 yrs or so) could, as a married woman, legally be raped and abused by her husband with no legal implications.
It makes me angry and very sad that human society, generically speaking, is so willing to treat 50% of it's population like servants and sex slaves and brood mothers.

So am I angry? Yes, I am.

"Well, these polls are against me, guess I should stop fighting for civil rights"
AAARRGH
I understand that there are some issues that we Democrats have to compromise on, but not civil rights issues

and have not liked or trusted this individual since his rah-rah days for trump. Once a Republican, always a republikkkan. Is anyone surprised?

Wasn't the idea that each state would decide for themselves?

Okay, I didn't believe that for a second either.

It's all propaganda and gossip.

I quit two decades ago.

Look up the matter of the intern and you'll see why.

Wolf

The GOP is the party of the devil. They’ll do anything to make people suffer. When a child is born, they make no effort in supporting them.

If the paternity test comes back as, "you are the father", then the women who had a forced pregnancy gets to force the male to have a nut removed. IF SHE WANTS.

Fair enough.

and Don Jr. is a fried cokehead.

Yeah.