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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI Have a Suggestion:
Let's not reinforce the idea that Trump will win if he runs in 2024. It seems to me that too many people, both here on DU and out there in what passes for the real world, have simply given up on a Democratic victory in November.
I suggest we stop making that assumption and get back to campaigning for Democrats and strongly supporting every freaky last Democrat who is running for any office.
I'll start with President Biden. He has not solved all of our problems, thanks to a Republican majority in the House. However, he has done a great deal to improve the lot for most people. So, let's champion the guy and start backing him up.
Next, let's look at Congress. We're only a few votes away from a House majority, and a few more to increase our Senate majority. So, let's identify all seats that are even remotely flippable and put as much energy as possible into flipping them, for goodness sake.
States? Well we can do better in our states as well. We made some gains, but there's more that can be done. Whatever state you live in, find seats and offices that can be flipped and work to flip them. Your state. Work there, rather than fuss about states where you have no vote. There's plenty enough to do in your own state, I'm quite certain.
But, above all, let's stop assuming that all is lost and stop whining that there is nothing we can do. It is not all lost, and there's plenty we can do. Be positive, not negative. Campaign for good and against bad. Let's get to work. I know that's old school crap, but it still works.
Thanks for listening.
Ocelot II
(115,946 posts)What would be worse than a delayed trial would be an acquittal, which is always a possibility, given the burden of proof for the prosecution. I'm not fretting too much about the trials being delayed (though I do enjoy seeing him having hissy fits over the civil trial verdicts). The only thing that really matters is keeping his fat orange ass out of the White House.
Bev54
(10,088 posts)local dem centres.
vanlassie
(5,694 posts)In the unlikely event
In the extremely unlikely event
If theres a zombie apocalypse
rampartc
(5,453 posts)"the democrats released the zombies to get me"
"they will go away by themselves in 2 weeks. "
Qutzupalotl
(14,340 posts)A trial and conviction would not have saved us anyway. It might have shaved off some independents, but it would make him a martyr to his base, who already see him as a demigod.
Only we can save us.
Nictuku
(3,620 posts)All the Supreme Court news, the newscasters all were saying something like: "If it is delayed after the election, then it will just go away" - assuming he would win (without the cases being ruled on before the election). That is a huge (and dangerous) assumption. They shouldn't do it.
If the case is delayed after the election, the case will go on when Biden wins just has a better sound to it.
The other thing I wanted to note is that I've heard many of them say things like: "Some Republican Voters won't support him if he is convicted" WTH? Was he not just convicted of fraud and having to pay hundreds of millions? Was not the Trump Org also convicted of Fraud?
The conversation seems so .... what is the word I want..... Contrived.
soldierant
(6,945 posts)A civil case cannot convict, even if the complaint involves a criminal action. Only a criminal charge and a criminal trial canbestow the label "convict."
Nictuku
(3,620 posts)malaise
(269,254 posts)one way or the other
MadameButterfly
(1,092 posts)He seems to be losing it. This may be real medical deterioration that can't be reversed. i hope it progresses fast enough
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,064 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,064 posts)malaise
(269,254 posts)A day dedicated to We hate you Donald Trump - go away - with planes, people in Tshirts, balloons posters etc right across the country.
Efuckingnough of this monster.
Sogo
(5,013 posts)On November 6, he will STILL BE a criminal defendent.
We will prevail....
Satyameva Jayate - an ancient Sanskrit saying that means "Truth Alone Triumphs."
Think. Again.
(8,690 posts)JustAnotherGen
(32,000 posts)But right now - it's not looking good to me . . . and it has nothing to do with SCOTUS.
I DO think those of us in Minority and Marginalized groups need to have a plan just in case.
It's the Hutus who never thought it could happen to them - that perished in Rwanda.
Have a pathway out, be armed, find a place to hide - Make sure your passport is up to date. Get a hotel reservation in Canada so it looks legit you have a vacay there - or wherever you think will work best for your families.
Ghana's doors are open wide for Black Americans right now. Make a reservation NOW. Get your visa NOW. This way you can just go on vacation - and never come back - IF YOU HAVE TO.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,803 posts)MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Vote for Biden or don't. There are no other choices. Simple.
Evolve Dammit
(16,803 posts)MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Evolve Dammit
(16,803 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,543 posts)( If you do a search for 'democrats overperform' you will see lots and lots of articles telling you how that overperformance is a big problem for Democrats. )
Cheezoholic
(2,044 posts)I just hope after we do, we use whatever power available to our side make sure they feel it and we do whatever we can to prevent this from happening again. There are things we can do, with enough seats, to re-instate the democratic rule of law to this republic.
RussBLib
(9,055 posts)....good to see some cooler heads prevail and stop the doom and gloom. Seems like every time something relatively bad for Dems happens, there is another chorus of doom and gloom, only to finally have some reason prevail. Only took one day this time.
Thank you!
https://russblib.blogspot.com/?m=1
hurple
(1,307 posts)He can't.
He has run twice, and "lost" both times. Nobody that did not vote for him then will do so now, but plenty of people who did vote for him then will not do so now.
If he gets the nomination, democratic voters will be engaged, just like we have been since 2016, to keep him out of office. Republicans will not be, he does not have the support from them he once had, that has fallen day by day since 2016.
Yes, he has a contingent that worship at his feet, but they are a minority. A very loud and obnoxious minority, but a minority nonetheless.
But, we need you to set up a program so we can call when we need to be reassured and told to just breathe.
Sometimes it seems like he will be impossible to beat from how loud and obnoxious they can be.
Because they are so loud and so obnoxious, they have a tendency to dominate the narrative, which gives them the illusion that they are a majority... but they are not.
It's difficult to remember that sometimes.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,173 posts)What are the active, Democratic think tanks? I know there are several on the right. What are our think tanks promoting today?
pazzyanne
(6,560 posts)Brookings Institution
Council on Foreign Relations
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
Aspen Institute
Economic Policy Institute
Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars
International Institute for Strategic Studies
Center for a New American Security
Demos
Center for Economic and Policy Research
Bruegel
Institute for Public Policy Research
Berggruen Institute
Earth Institute
Center for Climate and Energy Solutions
For a more complete list which includes ALL think tanks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_think_tanks_in_the_United_States#Environment,_science_and_technology
Wounded Bear
(58,765 posts)Probatim
(2,550 posts)What are the biggest issues causing you grief? Inflation? Jobs? Border Crisis? Crime? Violent Crime? Affordable housing?
What actions have republicans taken to make your life better? What specific legislation have they passed after they complained about any or all of these?
The answer is nothing - then you ask "are you content to vote for people who do nothing but complain?"
They'll likely answer about exploding deficits caused by Democrats, but that can be knocked away pretty easily with a chart showing deficits by political party.
DinahMoeHum
(21,825 posts)- says our ally Simon Rosenberg
https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/
Pedal to the metal, people.
Come November: RAMMING SPEED!!
H2O Man
(73,668 posts)We need the grass roots to be strong now. There is no benefit to posting the weakness that is on here in the last 24 hours.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)However, there's another thing that seems to be happening. I try to point that out from time to time.
Other side of the same coin.
Since all of life imitates the great sport of boxing, I shall explain further -- not for you, as I know you understand, but for others. I boxed a total of 329 fights. Thus, there were a few where for a round or two, the other guy was winning. Sometimes I got hurt. But I never got discouraged. My goal was to kick the shit out of the opponent. Getting discouraged in a fight is the only step betwe4en getting hit hard and quitting. I have no patience for that type of weakness. (And yes, I have been listening to and reading a lot of Malcolm X this week.)
True Dough
(17,358 posts)and I have to tell you that to "kick the shit" out of an opponent is totally illegal! The referee should have been penalizing you a point every time you resorted to kicking, H2O Man!
H2O Man
(73,668 posts)True Dough
(17,358 posts)you would have been a helluva kickboxer too! Ever try it?
H2O Man
(73,668 posts)I did have outstanding footwork, so I might have done okay at that. But I was most comfortable boxing. I was good enough that at 13, a European writer did a feature article on my in Boxing Illustrated. I knew I wasn't the biggest, the strongest, the fastest, or hit the hardest ..... but I thought then I was the smartest.
True Dough
(17,358 posts)on this cover, was it?
H2O Man
(73,668 posts)I was friends with Floyd. We had some laughs together. He was smaller than my son who boxed. I can't imagine a guy his size fighting Sonny Liston. Twice, at that. Sonny was a scary man in the ring.
H2O Man
(73,668 posts)I was friends with Floyd. We had some laughs together. He was smaller than my son who boxed. I can't imagine a guy his size fighting Sonny Liston. Twice, at that. Sonny was a scary man in the ring.
BaronChocula
(1,626 posts)confidence and optimism are contagious and can have an impact on those characters that either don't vote, vote for TPCs or are conflicted over which way to vote. Many people simply side with strength and/or morale. That's a simple psychological principle (for so many simple minds). Projection of fear and/or panic is not attractive to the lizard brain.
I'm confident, I'm optimistic and I'm voting BEFORE Nov 5.
i love mail in voting~
BaronChocula
(1,626 posts)I know. pretty bad. Sorry, couldn't resist
et tu
(933 posts)OMGWTF
(3,984 posts)It works great in eight states and DC, and the US military has used it since the Civil War. No more long lines to wait in, no more broken-down machines, no more running out of ballots on purpose, no more moving polling places to stop voting, no more intimidating goons around polling sites, and my favorite -- there's a paper trail. I was a Dem election observer in Pierce County, WA for several years and I have confidence that every effort is made to accurately count the votes.
et tu
(933 posts)was a man carrying who stood outside the voting room at our local school~
TwilightZone
(25,512 posts)That hasn't changed. Turnout is the key, of course. That should be the focus, not the ongoing Trumpian drama. There's very little we can do about the latter. We can do everything about GOTV.
gab13by13
(21,480 posts)with the Supreme Court, with the racist judge in Fulton county, if freaking out makes people angry, and what has happened has made me angry and all the more determined to vote the bastards out.
Freaking out and having it make one forlorn is what needs to be avoided. There are more of us than them and they will not bring down our democracy.
I see people posting every day here polls that show Trump beating Biden and I have a standing offer to anyone who believes those polls; give me the points, I will take Biden, 100 dollars per state for charity. PM me, if you believe in the polls that you post put your money where your mouth is.
My use of the word "you" does not apply to anyone in particular but to everyone in general.
et tu
(933 posts)awesome!
Elessar Zappa
(14,118 posts)As Ive said in other posts, if someone is completely hopeless and pessimistic they need to consider stepping away from all media until they get it together. We need everyone engaged to the fullest.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)that have happened under the Biden administration. People forget. Remind them.
Ms. Toad
(34,123 posts)Many here say - loudly and repeatedly - is that there is no way Trump can win.
That is the same dangerous game which got us Trump in 2016.
I think all of the whining about voting uncommitted in the Primary was ridiculous - that is precisely the time to register your true feelings about who you wish (or don't wish) would be our candidate. BUT creating an atmosphere in which we insist that Trump will win is what happened in 2016, and a number of people cast protest votes in the general election to send a message to "President" Clinton - which is partly the cause of Trump being elected.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a realist - Trump may very well win the election. We need to be aware of that possibility and do everything we can to prevent it. The same cannot be said for the opposite position - insisting that there is no chance that Trump can win - which leads to complacency - since he can't win, my vote isn't important so I can stay at home or cast my vote for a protest candidate.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Get out and get to work on GOTV and in building confidence. Simple!
Trump is losing voters. We need to gain voters. Let's do that.
Ms. Toad
(34,123 posts)That isn't to discount the importance of election support activities. But living in reality (that Trump can win) is necessary supplement.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Big difference.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Ugh...
Ms. Toad
(34,123 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,542 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,123 posts)I was one of the folks who was regularly berated for suggesting that Trump could win. I wish I hadn't been right - and I don't want to see us go down that route again.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Then it was "I just don't like her."
Now it's "He's too old."
Trump won in 2016. Both statements are bullshit.
Ms. Toad
(34,123 posts)If you believe "I just don't like her" is the only reason people wanted a different candidate, you weren't listening. As for Biden, many are deeply concerned about his Gaza policies. So you are apparently not listening now, either. Either that or you are building straw men.
And not the point. In 2016 people were over-confident that Trump was a joke and too many felt voting for someone else was an option that was safe. They were wrong. Overconfidence is not our friend.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,542 posts)But it is not 2016. DU could just as easily stand for Doomer Underground. Theres very little optimism about anything.
Vinca
(50,323 posts)bridge with Roe and have added fuel to the fire with the IVF ruling. I fully expect the SCOTUS will issue a decision banning the abortion pill. I don't care who they run, they can't win. As for the trials, I have to say I'm beginning to wonder whether I'll live long enough to use the new champagne glasses I bought a few weeks ago. Some judge, somewhere, has got to put the brakes on the delay games for J6 and the classified documents.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Neither should we assume that Republicans can't win, nor that we don't need to turn out in huge numbers.
The bigger we win, the more we gain. That is the bottom line.
SarahD
(1,290 posts)Take some time off from arguing with each other on this website, and others. Volunteer at a campaign office. Do some walking and knocking. Write some letters encouraging Democrats to vote. Attend an election town hall and clap loudly for Democrats. Work for ballot measures that are Democrat friendly. Wear a tee shirt. Thank you.
Hekate
(90,973 posts)relayerbob
(6,561 posts)"OMG, we're all doomed." Seems to be the theme of the day.
Work, don't whine.
Make calls, don't wring your hands.
Do whatever, but stop fucking panicking!
Tribetime
(4,715 posts)Because the way things stand now it's not good and i'm realistic
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Ask them what you can do. They'll have ideas for you.
spanone
(135,919 posts)msfiddlestix
(7,288 posts)Whoever wins California's primary contests will be known next week. I strongly believe Biden and Schiff will handily win the primary and then it's onward to the General elections in November, regardless of any violence and chaos ensued by the Maggots , I believe Biden will win the popular vote. I can hope the popular vote is so overwhelming as to leave no trace of doubt as to the winner.
those two things are the only things I have power to do.
I fear it isn't enough, but at the end of the day, there's nothing more I can do to impact the outcome.
Niagara
(7,722 posts)I miss reading your input, MM.
It's good to hear from you and I agree.
BTW, my home state turned blue in the presidential election of 2008 and the last time it went blue for a presidential election was in 1964. It sure didn't turn blue from everyone being negative and verbally reinforcing that the opposition was going to win.
P.S. I have my fair share of misfires inside my brain, so no judgement from me. I think you might have meant to say freakin' last Democrat and not freaky last Democrat.
MistakenLamb
(546 posts)We can run on opposing abortion bans and restrictions on reproductive freedom, fixing gun violence, honoring our world allies abd promoting free and fair elections, protecting our Democracy from someone who tried to overthrow the government and is only running for President because he knows hes guilty and needs to get back in to the office to clear him and get revenge. The courts wont save America. We have to do it ourselves again and re-elect Joe Biden
GoneOffShore
(17,342 posts)You have put into words what I've been feeling for a long time.
CrispyQ
(36,552 posts)"If you're not willing to just support the president now, you might as well just get your MAGA hat because you're helping Trump." -John Fetterman
The clip I saw lasted just long enough for me to hear Mika exuberantly agreeing in the background.
AverageOldGuy
(1,564 posts)Well, actually two suggestions.
ONE
Read Simon Rosenberg's The Hopium Chronicles -- HOPium as in HOPE.
https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/
Especially read this article
https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/trump-is-not-strong-or-winning-no
Watch Lawrence O'Donnell, 10:00 PM Eastern, Rosenberg is a frequent guest. Lawrence is one of the talking heads who is NOT all gloom and doom about 2024.
TWO
Read Hit 'Em Where It Hurts: How to Save Democracy by Beating Republicans at Their Own Game
By Rachel Bitecofer who says, in short, stop whining, stop cowering in front of these assholes, in every contact with a MAGAt, slap the shit out of them, tell them they are fucked up, tell them Trump is a rapist, a lying piece of shit, and a failed businessman, tell them if they vote for Trump they are no different from Nazis in the 1930's.
That's what I do.
Clash City Rocker
(3,402 posts)Trying to discourage us from voting. Kind of what we saw from some of the supposed Bernie supporters in 2016.
I refuse to believe that most voters will say, so hes a felon, its no big deal. Also Trump seems to be degrading every day now.
iemanja
(53,112 posts)People have a right to be worried. Their concerns require action; they are not discouraging voting. That's a canard. The people claiming Biden will win in a landslide don't understand US politics. This will be a hard-fought election, and we need all hands on deck. If you dismiss every concern as coming from a MAGA troll, you're burying your head in the sand. We get this every fucking election, and I'm sick of it.
Clash City Rocker
(3,402 posts)Many posts lately seem to be closer to the second one. And we got the same in 2016.
Scrivener7
(51,075 posts)Expressing disgust with the obvious incompetence of our leaders and expressing concern about the precarious position we unnecessarily find ourselves in has nothing to do with saying, "Don't bother voting."
So please. Educate me. Link to ONE SINGLE post that said anything about not voting.
SarahD
(1,290 posts)I can say I'm depressed and discouraged, but I have to refrain from saying I'm not voting. For sure I can't encourage others to not vote. That's the way it should be. So I assume any such posts would be removed. But echoing the doom and gloom stuff is pretty darn close to encouraging people to pass up the election. Raising concerns is fine, but let's have constructive suggestions to remedy those concerns.
AZSkiffyGeek
(11,135 posts)But that's not what you are really interested in, is it?
Personally, I'm wondering about calling Democrats "obviously incompetent" though. But maybe we have different ways of supporting Democrats.
RocRizzo55
(980 posts)and his support wanes each day.
Besides, the NY State fraud case is NOT being delayed. He could be campaigning from Dannamora come the summer. It would be difficult for him to win from there.
If we Dems do not neglect campaigning in EACH AND EVERY state, Dems shall win.
We cannot let the error of 2012 occur again.
It's a get out the vote thing. The more people get out and vote, the more Dems win.
Plain and simple.
moniss
(4,274 posts)now that we see the willingness of the US SC to not just put a finger on the scale but to actually get a whole butt cheek on it, do we not see the very real potential for the election to be held, then the MAGAT/GQP make some more accusations when they lose and then they take the matter to that same US SC and get them to do a supposed "one off" and install their guy? Of course there's no Constitutional mechanism for it but there wasn't one for Bush v Gore. It didn't stop them then. We need to talk about our reaction if they pull that same kind of crap as Bush v Gore because it could happen. To anybody who doesn't think so I would just ask if on 1/5 they ever thought 1/6 would happen.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,766 posts)I finished voting my mail-in ballot in the March 19 Illinois primary.
Shermann
(7,471 posts)MineralMan
(146,345 posts)VOTE! GET EVERYONE TO VOTE!
ecstatic
(32,777 posts)or are they still in place and able to deny/steal the next election?
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)They did not.
Elessar Zappa
(14,118 posts)quakerboy
(13,923 posts)But the two that blocked us from getting rid of the consequence-less filibuster are not going to be there anymore.
We will take the house. I dont think theres much doubt of that at this point.
We will take the whitehouse. Thats going to feel tricker because its such a big deal, but at the end of the day, trump will continue to shoot himself in the foot with everyone except the maga loons, and there are not enough of those to win.
The senate is where we need to put in more work. Thats going to be a challenge.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,794 posts)dwayneb
(773 posts)The only way to defeat our fascist enemies is to understand them well - both their weaknesses and their strengths.
We should certainly champion Biden as you say and do everything in our power to control Congress in 2024. We of course will do everything in our power to be certain that Trump does not win in November.
But IF he does we must be ready willing and able to take this fight to the streets. We must also have a plan forward to survive 4 years under the boot of MAGA if it comes to that, and to come out the other side with our democracy and our freedoms intact.
NewLarry
(38 posts)no matter who!
When we vote, we win!!!
GAJMac
(169 posts)Ya'know, I think a lot of the pissing and moaning we have heard recently is just people letting off steam about the unfairness of the current situation. We have an obviously partisan Supreme Court, gerrymandered state legislatures, and a media that cares nothing for the truth.
In the sane people's defense, we all deserve a bit of time to bemoan our fate, especially when it seems that everything is stacked against us.
But seriously, have we succumbed to conspiracy tales or other fantasies? Have we started recommending violence?
No, the majority of us have just been overwhelmed by the obvious bias of our social and government institutions. We'll catch our collective breath, pick up the pieces of the shattered illusions we held to be truths, and soldier on.
So everyone, take a deep breath, square you shoulders, and know that you have lived to fight another day.
Take a break when you need to and complain about the unfairness about it all, but when it comes down to the wire, we all know we'll get back to the important work of saving our democracy, and our way of life.
brooklynite
(94,911 posts)But the political people I deal with outside the blogosphere recognize that the race will be close and the campaign has to proceed on that basis.
PortTack
(32,819 posts)If you follow the polls they really are beginning to break towards president Biden. I dont..but theres that
More importantly, Dems have been over performing since 18. Up and down the ballot, national, state and local elections maga is being shown the door!
President Biden is raking in the cash with record donations, while the RNC is all but broke and donations to gqp candidates is way off
And finally trump is becoming a weaker candidate. Even fux is breaking away from his rambling nonsensical rallies, that have fewer and fewer attendees. Ppl are tired
he represents chaos and disorder.not what the voters want
Haggard Celine
(16,864 posts)the Jan 6 Committee to release the testimony from those who gave information to them? If it looks like we can't get justice in the courts, the committee should release the information they have. I don't have much faith that he'll be prosecuted. Our only hope is to show the American people the evidence that's been collected. Just let a little information out now and then up until Election Day. We can't depend on the courts to do their jobs.
BlueKota
(1,857 posts)I believe Biden should win, and will win! I will vote, and encourage others to vote
BUT and it's a Big But - We cannot trust the other side to play fair in the election or honor the results even if the Biden victory is by an undeniable margin.
The Republicans no longer play by the rules and norms we have always lived by. Our Democratic leaders need to have a plan in place to deal with it, is my only point. My only reason for not believing blind optimism is going to be enough is because Republicans have shown us and hell outright told us they aren't going to let the Constitution stand in their way.
I am not saying you can't be optimistic, but don't assume those of us who are skeptical don't have legitimate reasons for our lack of trust that Republicans will play fair, or that they will be held accountable if they do cheat.
The old axiom hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst is the only point some of us are trying to make. Sometimes the best people win, sometimes the worst people win. That's just basic reality. It's the reason we put smoke detectors and security cameras in our houses. We aren't doing it because we are 100 percent sure a burglary or a fire will happen. We are just aware that both are a possibility, so that we can be prepared if they do. What is wrong with that?
BobTheSubgenius
(11,573 posts)There is still time to achieve quite a lot. And everyone should remember how the GOP gained such a large amount of governmental power - they had people who put results ahead of personal and ran for any public job, no matter how seemingly inconsequential. You can do a lot more as an elected official in small school district or a dogcatcher than you can sitting at home and decrying the world at large.
If nothing else, it gives that person some relevant experience they can point to in possible future campaigns. It's the long game.
Amaryllis
(9,526 posts)conclusion he is going to win!
judy
(1,942 posts)Old or not, he is not perfect, but we need to all get behind him!! We can hold his feet to the fire later about Gaza, and many other things I disagree with...but right now, it's imperfect democracy vs. imbecile, greedy and cruel dictatorship! The choice is simple...