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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJack Smith will now need to go to the 11th circuit to seek Cannon's removal
Last edited Thu Apr 4, 2024, 09:44 PM - Edit history (1)
...to preserve his case, and for the appeals court to, at the least, clarify that violations of the Espionage Act, which is what Trump is being charged with, are not leveraged or determined in any way by the Presidential Records Act which Judge Cannon is clearly angling to allow the jury to consider as a legitimate legal defense.
Barb McQuade @BarbMcQuade 22m
Good newsJudge Cannon rejects Trumps motion to dismiss Espionage Act charges on grounds of Presidential Records Act.
Bad newsshe limits order to pre-trial, suggesting Trump may raise it at trial as a defense, when Smith is no longer able to appeal.
Katie Phang @KatiePhangKatie's Sidebar: This is a TELLING statement from Judge Cannon. She is telling Jack Smith that she will not rule on jury instructions at this time and will wait until trial and "the presentation of trial defenses and evidence." The timing of that means Cannon might wait until AFTER a jury has been sworn-in and jeopardy attaches. Once jeopardy attaches, a criminal defendant cannot be tried a second time for the same crime. This is exactly what Smith is trying to avoid by having Cannon rule on the jury instructions at this stage. Cannon is sticking her finger in Smith's face and telling him to do something about it.
Notably, Judge Cannon takes a shot at Special Counsel Jack Smith in this opinion. She writes that the request for her to make a ruling on the jury instructions "prior to trial, prior to a charge conference, and prior to the presentation of trial defenses and evidence" is "unprecedent and unjust."
Cannon claims that all she was doing was trying "to better understand the parties competing positions and the questions to be submitted to the jury in this complex case of first impression."
Cannon then writes that any party is "free to avail itself of whatever appellate options it sees fit to invoke, as permitted by law."More Katie's Sidebar:
So, for the folks calling for Special Counsel Jack Smith to pursue what we call a "writ of mandamus": at this point, there really isn't anything that Smith can mandamus (for lack of a better way to put it). A writ of mandamus is used to get Cannon to do something she has an obligation to do.
Cannon has properly denied the Defendants' Motion to Dismiss. So that leaves open the issue of the Presidential Records Act (PRA) jury instruction, which is the worrisome part of this case b/c Cannon asked both sides to submit proposed jury instructions based on 2 scenarios that are both an incorrect legal interpretation of the PRA.
If you look at the language in Cannon's order, she was, in my opinion, VERY careful and quite wily about the way she drafted this ruling. She intentionally stated that "accepting the allegations of the Superseding Indictment as true" (which is the correct legal standard for a motion to dismiss at this stage), Counts 1 through 32 (as well as the remaining counts) "track the applicable statutory language and essential elements" of the charged offenses.
Cannon does NOT render an opinion about the substance of the PRA here. Further, Cannon does NOT opine on the validity of Trump's whacked-out PRA defense. She simply applies the correct legal standard for a motion to dismiss and in the same breath tells the Government she isn't going to deal with the PRA jury instruction issue until possibly it's too late...
The 11th Circuit cannot FORCE Cannon to decide the language of a jury instruction at this stage of the case.
BUT, Smith could try to recuse Judge Cannon on the basis that if she continues on the path of the legally incorrect PRA jury instruction, she is setting up the case for an acquittal either by way of a jury verdict or by way of a judgment of acquittal by the judge.
This conduct suggests that Cannon has questionable impartiality b/c she is pushing a certain outcome in this case that would benefit the defense and she should be recused prior to a jury being sworn.
It's all frankly absurd that we are having this conversation. It's wrong that this is the bind that the Government finds itself in at this time.
threads:
Link to tweet
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https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/04/us/politics/judge-trump-dismissal-classified-documents.html
C_U_L8R
(45,058 posts)This has the stink of magat puppetmasters all over it. Though it's quite possible she's this dumb and corrupt all on her own.
spooky3
(34,609 posts)So I think her problem is bias and having inappropriate and evil objectives rather than stupidity.
TwilightZone
(25,576 posts)They're not going to remove her for something she may or may not do, even if we assume that she would do it.
A TV lawyer, my apologies for not remembering which one, was talking about this earlier today on MSNBC. The court isn't going to dump her for something she hasn't done yet, and they aren't going to dump her unless she does something truly egregious. They're not going to dump her for rulings we don't like, even if we think they're questionable. Judges have very wide latitude in cases.
The TV lawyer, ironically, I suppose, said not to believe other TV lawyers who tell you that anything in this case thus far rises to the level of a guaranteed removal.
bigtree
(86,097 posts)...and writes here that any party is "free to avail itself of whatever appellate options it sees fit to invoke, as permitted by law."
The 11th Circuit has already ruled on this in a sacthing rebuke of the judge. I wouldn't be so certain they wouldn't welcome a chance to put a larger imprint on that decision.
Trumps legal team argued the documents are his personal records or privileged and should be kept outside the scope of the investigation, and the appeals court shut down the 'special master' process where they were trying to parse whether the documents belonged to Trump.
I'd bet that court would be open to making a ruling on that point before jury selection because of the jeopardy attached afterward, and because they stopped Cannon doing this same thing before (albeit for juristicdiction reasons).
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,809 posts)bigtree
(86,097 posts)It's worth underlining that the reason legal experts are debating the appropriate next steps for Jack Smith in the classified documents case, when typically they generally agree altho they may see different nuances, is that Judge Cannon is straight off the rails & not in line with how courts are supposed to work.
Joyce Alene @JoyceWhiteVance
I started out thinking a motion to recuse was the best strategy and I still think that. But the reason different legal experts have such diverse views here is because what the judge is doing is so out of bounds. The normal rules don't seem to apply.
Link to tweet
TexasDem69
(1,968 posts)After a ruling on the merits the losing party can appeal. Thats a pretty important missing piece of info
gab13by13
(21,726 posts)Once Cannon rules in favor of Trump Smith cannot appeal because of double jeopardy.
dpibel
(2,928 posts)Is that what you're saying? That the prosecution can appeal an acquittal?
That seems to be what you're saying, but it's not at all clear what "ruling on the merits" you're talking about.
If Cannon give the bogus PRA jury instructions, and the jury acquits, there's no appeal.
You could look it up.
Silent Type
(3,218 posts)Maybe the only choice at this point, but I don't see Smith any closer to trial.
Whether she remains on the case or not, the bottom line is the same: this trial is not going to happen in 2024.
Bev54
(10,147 posts)block Chutkan's trial when SCOTUS ruling comes down. I truly hope he finds a way to go to the 11th circuit before this trial begins because no matter what, this woman will find a way to scuttle this trial and set Trump free. If it delays it but keeps the door open for Chutkan to go ahead and keeps this one for later so be it.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,764 posts)He could drop all the document charges before jeopardy attaches.
That would allow the Jan. 6 trial to get rolling as soon as SCOTUS rules against Trump on immunity, with a significant chance the trial could start before the election.
Then, once the J6 trial is over, refile the documents charges, and get a different judge.
FBaggins
(26,882 posts)No guarantee that the 1/6 trial would occur in time... but Trump would be able to run on the (false) claim that the charges were dropped because they were always political and the biased prosecutor knew he was going to lose.
Smith couldn't explain that his purpose was to clear the decks for the other trial... because that would just be admitting political motivation.
Then, once the J6 trial is over, refile the documents charges, and get a different judge.
Which would be obvious judge-shopping... and would likely fail.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,764 posts)It wasnt something I created from my imagination.
The risks you mentioned are valid, but so are the risks of allowing Cannon to orchestrate an acquittal.
The folks at Just Security, who are professional court watchers and have outlined potential timelines for the J6 trials, have estimated that, if SCOTUS issues their ruling against Trumps immunity claim by late June/early July, the trial could begin by late August/early September.
Smith has told the judge he could present the prosecutions case in 21 days.
Things will only get more interesting from here.
LetMyPeopleVote
(146,504 posts)50 Shades Of Blue
(10,182 posts)her out on her shit.I hope to gawd he has a strategy ready to go now that she has.
rgbecker
(4,840 posts)as to possible jury instructions they would like to see? Did Cannon get what she asked for "to better understand the parties competing positions and the questions to be submitted to the jury in this complex case of first impression."
Bev54
(10,147 posts)cachukis
(2,307 posts)with this on her own. I see fingerprints from more malevolent minds.
High stakes chess.
Who'd have thought a judge wouldn't want to protect the country from espionage, especially since it's on national TV?
Wouldn't the judge want to adjudicate innocence, if it applied?
There is not a novel nor a movie with the drama playing out in our time.
I am astonished that so few people care.
This is history books unfolding in our midst that we can prognosticate on, that blows away any sports match up, ever.
But when you have a 7 second attention span, it's too much.
TexasDem69
(1,968 posts)And why do you think she isnt an advanced thinker?
bigtree
(86,097 posts)...she's been a member since 2005.
Rubio was the one who brought her to the job, then nominated by Trump at age 39 to the District Court.
The American Bar Association required at least 12 years of law practice as one of their approval criteria, and Cannon just met that standard.
https://archive.ph/20220906175221/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/06/trump-fbi-search-judge-special-master/#selection-745.56-757.53
...thought I'd butt in and answer with this and that.
lostnfound
(16,220 posts)This article describes the groups that filed amicus briefs to keep trump on the ballot in Colorado:
The ties are part of a pattern, documented by Politico, of Leo himself and his network being connected to amicus briefs in high-profile supreme court cases in recent years. The Politico review also found multiple instances of language used in the amicus briefs appearing in the courts opinions.
In this instance, Accountable.US found ties between Leo and the following groups or their lawyers that filed amicus briefs in the 14th amendment case: Citizens United, the Public Interest Legal Foundation, the Claremont Institute, Landmark Legal Foundation, Judicial Watch, Jones Day, Wyomings secretary of state Chuck Gray and Americas Future.
machoneman
(4,029 posts)from many dubious RW characters, lawyers and Leo layers on how to fuck up this trial. Now, collusion to defeat the DOJ's efforts would be an easy charge to make if said lawyers coached her with the intent to lie, cheat and steal. at any cost, to get this trial cancelled.
cachukis
(2,307 posts)American history. The Presidential Records Act was specifically designed to protect those documents associated with the presidency for posterity. She is turning that heritage upside down for some reason. I don't think that would follow, someone trained in the law, to upend.
Most high level thinkers mull over decisions with a peer group. They don't want to miss something and are smart enough to know an outsiders view expands their perspective.
She has credentials, yes, but in this world of political pressure, having been appointed by the person she must judge, she doesn't want to get it wrong.
She wants to impress her benefactors.
An advanced thinker would one to impress the historians.
onecaliberal
(33,150 posts)She clearly wants to get the case far enough to dismiss. That would be the ballgame.
gab13by13
(21,726 posts)both Democrats and Republicans make statements that this documents case is by far the easiest case to prove in court, most have called it a slam dunk, and yet here we are no closer to a trial than when charges were filed. No way this trial happens pre-election.
It is also doubtful the J6 trial happens pre-election. How long will it take just for jury selection, at least a month? Trump will claim election interference the closer it gets to the election.
Time Mattered.
onecaliberal
(33,150 posts)Garland fucked democracy over:
bucolic_frolic
(43,747 posts)gab13by13
(21,726 posts)onecaliberal
(33,150 posts)SDNY needs to be cleaned out and all new people who are willing to jail rich criminals put in.
Goodheart
(5,361 posts)1. Go to the 11th Circuit Court and ask that Cannon be dismissed from the case.
2. If the appeals court declines to dismiss her then Smith should drop the charges and re-file them later.
onecaliberal
(33,150 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(15,764 posts)We shall see what actually unfolds.
onenote
(42,993 posts)Sorry, I think he's boxed in for the moment. I hope I'm wrong.
Goodheart
(5,361 posts)the charges right now, and re-file them later for a different judge to handle? Can he do that?
bigtree
(86,097 posts)...and charging Trump in New Jersey.
I'm not sure if this is common, practical,or even possible. I'd guess he'd have to use that incident that's been publicized, but he could have other evidence we don't know about.
I could see the court responding if the SC made an issue out of her insistence that, contrary to her denials today, the prosecution accept or include some element of the PRA defense in their jury instruction motions., and that she only applied her acknowledgment of the primacy of the Espionage Act in the charges against Trump to the 'pre-trial' period.
Surely the appeals court recognizes the importance of when jeopardy attaches. What Smith needs from them right now is a nod which would give more confidence they'd accept a mandamus appeal during trial.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,764 posts)So even if Cannon orchestrates an acquittal on these current charges, there are dozens more documents he could be charged with unlawfully retaining.
Goodheart
(5,361 posts)I sure don't. I smell a rat.
onecaliberal
(33,150 posts)FBaggins
(26,882 posts)There are only a couple federal districts that could have received the case. Cannon is the only judge in one of them and helps out in the other as well. The closer district has a few judges, but many of them were full up at the time.
As I remember it... it was about a 50% chance that she would get it.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,764 posts)So Smith had a 20% chance of drawing Cannon.
Silent Type
(3,218 posts)bringthePaine
(1,762 posts)MOMFUDSKI
(5,953 posts)Loose cannon hopes for a clown win and a seat on SC as promised. If clown loses cannon couldnt care less how the trial goes.
scipan
(2,382 posts)Smith hasn't waived it. Couldn't he ask for recusal based on it and her pattern of not ruling on much of anything, and not timely scheduling the CIPA stuff?
I don't understand why it's not taken very seriously.