... at some point there will be common ground.

But both should be able to protest.

I have a major problem with the Hamas support, the “Death to America” bullshit and the rampant antisemitism at these protests and on the campuses in general.

I don't remember many leftists coming out in protesting that on 10/8.

I do remember some saying it was justified, though.

https://wnyt.com/top-stories/albany-law-professor-ripped-for-praise-of-palestinians-tearing-down-the-walls-of-colonialism/

Guess those lives never mattered.

ones dropping the bombs. Since 10/7 over 30,000 lives, most of them innocent people who had nothing to do with what Hamas did, and almost half of that death toll were children that have been slaughtered. Guess those lives never mattered either.

Facts.

Glad we agree much of the protesting is done out of hate, though.

It's just sad to see so many young leftists embrace hating Jews. Oh sorry. "Zionists".

are behind the pro Palestinian protests from the left. They are promoting them from pulpits, in newsletters, and in official statements from the heads of their denominations. A coalition of left-leaning liberal Christian churches has united in blaming Israel for 10/7. They give short statements of disapproval of terrorism, but then devote several paragraphs to accusing Israel of apartheid, genocide, and security restrictions that brought the attacks on themselves. They are urging their members to get involved in protests and letter writing campaigns to Congress and Biden.

I know this because I have received their e-mail messages. I have been actively involved with two liberal churches in my community in their social outreach programs for civil rights and aid to homeless and needy people. I have read the official statements of their denomination leaders at the national level regarding Israel and Palestine.

In my community, an Episcopal priest has organized a pro Palestinian protest calling for a permanent ceasefire, resumption of US aid to UNRWA, and an end of US aid to Israel.

That same priest gave a sermon about the "fair and just" Roman governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, who did not want to execute Jesus. But, the priest said, Pilate did not have the courage to defend his principles of justice against the desire of "the Jews" to kill Christ. The priest said that modern people can and should take a more courageous stand today against Jews killing people.

Not only did that sermon display an appalling ignorance of history regarding the character of Pilate, but also complete ignorance of the modern history of the region. It also promoted an old trope about Jews as Christ killers, the kind of trope that incited pogroms in the Middle Ages.

. . . but they were on the street fully prepared and organized, almost as though they knew it was coming and were pre-prepared.

two nations with more weapons than fucking god and you know what's going to happen then anyone with half a soul would protest. The Iraq war was protested well before the bombs fell.

And it's wise to not start one.
Hopefully, the terrorists won't attack Israel again, though Hamas has promised that they will.

Israel and their Netanyahu are guilty of both.

. . . like I said, hopefully the terrorists will not rape, dismember, torture, burn, womb rip, murder, and kidnap again.

A lot of badness to go around. Shouldn’t we call out all of it or conveniently ignore some of it? A lot of conveniently ignoring on both sides me thinks.

innocent civilians either. AND that is conveniently ignored by one side because Hamas is evil.

You're obviously not getting my point. Funny, I don't remember nearly as much hooping and hollering over the Rohingya genocide in Myanmar. Guess the Rohingya's just aren't popular with the bros.

to your actual post. Bro. By the way Netanyahoo is an evil fucking POS. Nothing more than a trump clone. If you claim to know what everyone posts about every genocide you must have a huge memory bro.

But I don't remember any Columbia protests so excessive that the university had to opt for hybrid and online classes when the Chinese were beating the shit out of the Uyghur's for the umpteenth time. Just saying. Seems Uyghurs just aren't on the popular list with the hip crowd. Guess they need better "influencers." Swap Uyghurs with Tibetans and the freak out begins!

The protests began before Israel made any move.
They were well organized - and I do wonder how all those signs got printed and distributed overnight.

But you are wrong. Israel started the retaliation the same day.

By 7am on 10/7 hundreds of protesters converged on Columbia’s quad.

Do you have a source for that?

7 a.m. on October 7?

Also, Israel claims to have dropped 6,000 bombs in the first 6 days. Imagine. A thousand bombs a day on this small area packed with people. Many of them 2000 lb unguided dumb bombs. The scale of destruction and deaths portended a horrible collective punishment on Gaza.

A lot of people thought that was terribly wrong and came out in protest.

Before the conflict started Israel has murdered a record number of Palestinian children. But removed the people from their homes and businesses. Colonialism that was started with Great Britain and still continues to thus day.

the 10/7 attack. The world was outraged by Hamas' actions.

Then, well, we all see what happened soon after, an over-the-top bombing and killing of Gazan women, children and innocent men by the IDF.

There was great sadness and sympathy, but it dissapated soon after Netanyahu's retaliation began.

That's how I remember it.

there were many anti-Israel protests and celebrations in support of Hamas actions.

Remember as well.

If there were some celebrating somewhere it was not the majority nor anything I remember happening here. Only outrage was what I recall - until the response by Israel did nothing but make my family in Israel less safe, did nothing to make my family’s friends that were taken hostage free, did nothing to protect innocent Palestinians. That is what I remember.

Have a great day.

what it means.

But Chag Pesach sameach to you and yours.

that cheered Hamas and the taking of captives? That was October 8, the date claimed there were no protests.

There are haters but please, let's not rewrite history to the way we wish it was. Hamas attacks were celebrated in the US and around the world starting October 7.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

I remember being told that didn't mean the protester was an antisemite, just that Israel were Nazis.

Trump republicans agreeing with Hamas about killing more Jews.

that the targets of Israeli bombs were women children - specifically.
Is that true?

Let's suppose that Hamas wore uniforms and avoided attacking from highly populated areas, hospitals, mosques and schools. How would it look then?

I actually expect the state of Israel to be better behaved than the terrorists in Hamas. All of the left-leaning people I know were appalled by the Oct. 7 attacks.

exactly what the American RW tried to do with the Weathermen and their ilk vis-a-vis the peaceful anti war protests of the 60s and the 70s.

They are trying to universalise the bad things that a small, tiny tiny part of the US population is doing and then use it to attack most any and all support for the Palestinian civilians and protest/complaints about the over-the-top Israeli destruction of Gaza and the illegal land grabs and settler violence in the West Bank.

So so many who take even a peaceful stance against the wanton destruction by the RW Israeli government and their lunatic base's West Bank (backed by the Israeli government as a matter of policy I might add) illegal land grabs and violence (including murders) are labelled or implied to be suspect, to be open Hamas Huggers and Jew Haters (or closeted ones).

It's the same way the RW and Fox News tar and lie about Occupy Wallstreet and Antifa.

Rec

I see Putin’s fingers in all of this.

1,500 vs. 33,000 dead? Schools, hospitals, homes, businesses bombed to the ground.

They are citizens of this country, like you and I are. Some support Israel's actions, but some non-Jews support Israel's actions.

DU was outraged when Muslim-Americans were harassed over 9-11, And now ...

the Iran hostage crisis also.

You hit someone in the face and then whine as they beat the crap out of you ..

to try and destroy Israel and refuse to negotiate or recognize Israel at the end of each war, one would think they would not repeat the same mistake.

To a large degree Netanyahu came to power because of those repeated attacks, and refusal to negotiate

I don't remember that.

Tens of thousands of dead kids in Syria and no protests for those kids.

Or should we maybe strive for something better.

Also, seems weird that people on a liberal site just shrug their shoulders and say "War, man, what are you going to do?"

We can strive for something better but the world isn't a perfect place and never will be.

There's an idea.

But don't be surprised to be called out for the selective outrage.

You know that.

Counterproductive to push away individuals that have been supporters of Israel for all of their lives because they are anti-war and think the current rightwing government in Israel is an aggressor more effective and as dishonest as Hamas.

Randi Rhodes in her show yesterday touched on this subject. Go to Free Speech TV to listen.

Read full interview [link:https://slate.com/human-interest/2024/04/columbia-university-protests-presidents-jewish-students-encampment.html|]

Why some of these protests are directed at American Jews though is beyond me and reeks of antisemetism. As if American Jews have any power over the war in some other country. Why no protests to stop the war in Yemen, which has killed nearly 400,000 people?

I supprt the people of Israel, I support innocent civilians in Gaza. I do not support Bibi who is a savage war monger, and I do not support Hamas who are animals who would gladly murder the people protesting in their favor. It sucks that Bibi and Hamas are choosing to have their war in a civilian populated area.

as blaming Biden for what Israel's government is doing in Gaza, some of which I feel is excessive.

We support Israel existing, if we didn't, they would be destroyed. But Bibi is like a deranged Trump who wants his bombing to keep him in power. But then Iran launches 300 missiles and drones at Israel and it crystalizes that they're under existentila threat every single day.

The US doesn't dictate Israeli policy, but we're doing everything we can to help shape it. But we aren't going to abandon them, that's for sure.

And Palestine is at least as complicated. Women and children are dying there right now, no one wants to see that. But Hamas is the elected leadership of Gaza, they are wildly popular as are the attacks of 10/7. The US protests help Hamas, they don't hurt Bibi.

Hamas wants bloodshed, it thinks it helps their cause. The leaders of Hamas aren't in Gaza, nor are their families. They want this to continue and to be more and more brutal. Bibi is on his way out, hopefully the sooner the better. Hamas is going nowhere, they rule Gaza with an iron fist and will continue to make life miserable for the people there even in peace times.

that does not lend itself to easy solutions as some people would prefer.

And I really think the portion of the protests targeting American Jewish people are very disturbing. That's bald faced anti-semetism, that American Jews are responsbile for Israel some how, or that they are more loyal to Israel than the US.

People shouting genocide are defeating their own cause too. This isn't genocide, this is a war, and Israel is being too careless with their bombs in this wart and that deserves protests. If Israel wanted to commit genocide in Gaza they would have already killed a lot more than 0.14% of the people there.

The problem as I see it is that Hamas overplayed their hand and now don't have any chips to negotiate with. They killed most of the remaining hostages, and Israel knows this so there is no reason for them to stop at anything less than Hamas being out of power.

Why no protest over China's genocide of the Uighurs?

situation in Gaza, whilst the tragedy of the Ughurs has gotten little attention from the same platforms. Perhaps that is why there has been little to no protest as to what China is doing.

This is all about fitting in, being part of a cause and hating jews.

Last edited Tue Apr 23, 2024, 10:13 AM - Edit history (1)

I think how the protestors are going about things is just creating negative press and not helping the cause

Or can you speak out against that portion of the protests?

Can you speak out against the genocidal policies of the Israeli government?

Also I did it without invoking antisemitic tropes.

Thank you for replying

at times violently Jewish Students, Jewish Profs, and Smearing Jewish Businesses.

And, no one is for "genocide.. Obvious.

Link to tweet

Unless he has better intel then you do...

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin rejects accusations Israel has committed genocide in Gaza

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/defense-secretary-lloyd-austin-rejects-accusations-israel-committed-ge-rcna147031

So many Gen Z kids & Millennials are mixed races & could care less about race. None of my Jewish girlfriends are married to Jewish men. Of course this is NM but 3 of them married Hispanic men. Simon Romero, NYT correspondent, grew up in NM - Jewish mom, Hispanic dad (both friends) - my Jewish women friends kids also have last names like Archulatta, Aragon & Tumer. Times are different.

https://x.com/onlinepaleng/status/1782756343738232837?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ[link:A pro-Israel couple wanted to prove that protests at Yale University are anti-semitic. The wife stood at the campus wearing T-shirt with 'Jew' word, awaiting to be attacked by pro-Palestine activists, while her husband was filming. Their attempt failed as no one paid them attention.|

I cannot confirm which are students and which are not.

In some videos the people seem old for students, but that can be deceiving. I have taken classes where my fellow students were young enough to be my children.

Thinking particularly of the video of 'Zionists among us', Columbia is a closed campus and was supposedly only allowing those with valid student IDs to enter. I would assume most if not all for the people in that video are students.

I am glad your relatives are not having to face the hate others are experiencing.

but if they are so deaf and dumb that they do not understand the difference between the govt and it's people, then we have what is happening. Antisemitism. If they are chanting death to America, they are terrorists.

No thanks...

I prefer protestors who are not supporters of terrorist groups.

The words in the red box do not follow the curvature of the page like the rest of the printed words.

Literal "blah blah blah revolution blah waah waah blah blah I'm a two year old having a temper tantrum blah blah gonna kill mommy and daddy cause they didn't buy me an iPhone blah blah blah.

That's one thing that bugs me about these protests:
Fact: Islamophobia is on the rise.

I don't have an answer, but I don't think reinforcing stereotypes is the proper way to deal with this. It's just gonna make it worse.

Even if the "Death to America" is doctored, I do see stereotypes are being reinforced when protesters become aggressive. (Sorry, but it's a fact. )
Also, we have seen "Death to America" chanted already.
Aggressive anarchy type protests turn people off and increase Islamophobia. (Hey anarchists: Go try this in Iran!)

Sorry, but you gotta win people to your cause!!

Aggressive protests will only increase Islamaphobia and make it worse.

. . . the death to America part was added as a comment. It obviously is not part of the original document.

This is not the first time you have posted inflammatory material without attribution.

The inflammatory text has obviously been photoshopped into it.

. . . as I mentioned, that is most likely an add-on commentary to the original test. That said, it is not an unusual thing to hear at the pro-hamas demonstrations.

inflammatory, information. So, is that your intention?

I do not support harrassment and Antisemitism masquerading as activismn.

Also, it's curious to see people who thought Zuccotti Park should become a permanent fist-in-the-air-in-the-land-of-hypocrisy encampment suddenly and deeply concerned about the public-spaceness of the...checks notes...Columbia University quad?

Occupy Wall Street human microphone? Ingenious communal invention!
Free Palestine protest human microphone? Cultish and mindless repetition outside of European Enlightenment traditions!

Okaaaaay buddies.

Protesting Israel's actions is one thing. Creating an atmosphere where American Jews might feel unsafe is another. People should be able to differentiate. I'm sure some do, but not all.

And here we are.