just more UN bias against Israel.

I fully agree Israel is using overly aggressive tactics in Gaza that are out of all proportion harming innocent civilians. That is not reason to not hold Hamas responsible for its treatment of civilians and prisoners.

There were videos made by the barbarians, using the victims cell phones to post on their social media!

murders themselves - and proudly shared those videos, right?

You do know they did that? It's been out there since 10/7.

"Assuming there was evidence?" Hamas gave it themselves.

is Wrong with the UN? They Better get their GD Stupid act together

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/04/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-un-report-sexual-violence.html

A United Nations report released on Monday found signs that sexual violence was committed in multiple locations during the Hamas-led Oct. 7 attacks on Israel and said that some hostages being held in the Gaza Strip had also been subjected to rape and sexual torture.

From late January to early February, the United Nations deployed a team of experts to Israel and the West Bank led by Pramila Patten, the secretary general’s special representative on sexual violence in conflict.

In their full report, the experts said they had found “reasonable grounds” to believe that sexual violence occurred during the Hamas-led incursion into Israel, including rape and gang rape in at least three locations: the Nova music festival site and the area around it, as well as Road 232 and Kibbutz Re’im.

“In most of these incidents, victims first subjected to rape were then killed, and at least two incidents relate to the rape of women’s corpses,” a U.N. news release about the report said.

This is a UN report, and the UN ignored it.

I was reading another thread here tonight stating the death toll in Gaza as reported by the UN was correct because they are the UN after all and above reproach. I didn't believe any of it, since the data was coming from the Government of Palestine, Hamas. Obviously there is corruption at the UN as well.

Thanks, Beastly Boy.

claim to Smithereens

Thanks, she

Gutterres has failed in his responsibilities of Uniting Nations.

No holding feet to the fire or questions allowed!

Claims of Israeli sexual assault of Palestinian women are credible, UN panel says

Experts report evidence of rape, sexual humiliation and threats of rape against girls and women

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says

Thu 22 Feb 2024

UN experts say they have seen “credible allegations” that Palestinian women and girls have been subjected to sexual assaults, including rape, while in Israeli detention, and are calling for a full investigation. The panel of experts said there was evidence of a least two cases of rape, alongside other cases of sexual humiliation and threats of rape. Reem Alsalem, the UN special rapporteur on violence against women and girls, said the true extent of sexual violence could be significantly higher. “We might not know for a long time what the actual number of victims are,” said Alsalem, who was appointed special rapporteur by the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in 2021. She noted that reticence in reporting sexual assault was common because of the fear of reprisals against victims.

She said that in a wave of detentions of Palestinian women and girls after the outbreak of the Israel-Hamas war on 7 October, there was an increasingly permissive attitude towards sexual assault in Israeli detention centres. “I would say that, on the whole, violence and dehumanisation of Palestinian women and children and civilians has been normalised throughout this war,” Alsalem said. There was evidence of widespread sexual violence by Hamas against Israeli women and girls during the 7 October raid in southern Israel. The Association of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel has reported that the use of rape and other abuse by the Hamas attackers was “systematic and intentional”. Those assaults, which were also condemned by Alsalem and the other UN experts, are to be the subject of a report by the UN secretary general’s special envoy on sexual violence, Pramila Patten.

Alsalem said she did not know whether Patten’s report would cover the allegations of rape and sexual assault of Palestinians women and girls, but that she was hoping to discuss the issue with her. The Israeli government has rejected the allegations of sexual violence against Palestinians as “despicable and unfounded claims”. The US state department spokesperson, Matthew Miller, said the administration was aware of the allegations and had asked the Israeli authorities to investigate. “I cannot independently confirm the reports,” Miller said. “I will say that we have been clear that civilians and detained individuals must be treated humanely and in accordance with international humanitarian law. We strongly urge Israel to thoroughly and transparently investigate credible allegations and ensure any accountability for abuses and violations, and that will continue to be our position.”

In their report, delivered on Monday, the UN experts said: “We are particularly distressed by reports that Palestinian women and girls in detention have also been subjected to multiple forms of sexual assault, such as being stripped naked and searched by male Israeli army officers. At least two female Palestinian detainees were reportedly raped while others were reportedly threatened with rape and sexual violence.” The independent experts, who have been appointed by the UNHRC but do not represent the UN, reported that degrading photos of female Palestinian detainees, reportedly taken by Israeli soldiers, had been uploaded to the internet. The experts said women and girls had not been spared in the widespread killing of Palestinian civilians. With the estimated death toll in Gaza now close to 30,000, the experts pointed to reports of women and girls being arbitrarily killed in Gaza, often with family members. “We are shocked by reports of the deliberate targeting and extrajudicial killing of Palestinian women and children in places where they sought refuge, or while fleeing,” the experts said in a joint statement. “Some of them were reportedly holding white pieces of cloth when they were killed by the Israeli army or affiliated forces.”

snip

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-790390


I would think you could find a more credible person than this, she very obviously has a severe bias against Israel.

You sure you want to quote this woman?

Why anyone would believe this woman on anything Israel is beyond me.

that Secretary of State Antony Blinken disqualify multiple Israeli military and police units from receiving U.S. aid after reviewing allegations that they committed serious human rights abuses.

Also she was not the only person on that UN panel at all.





https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/us-supply-weapons-israel-alleged-abuses-human-rights

Top US officials quietly reviewed more than a dozen incidents of alleged gross violations of human rights by Israeli security forces since 2020, but have gone to great lengths to preserve continued access to US weapons for the units responsible for the alleged violations, contributing – former US officials say – to the sense of impunity with which Israel has approached its war in Gaza. An estimated 24,000 Palestinians, mostly women and children, have been killed by Israeli forces since Hamas’s 7 October attack on Israel, a death toll that has spurred condemnation of the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and the US president, Joe Biden, who has been criticized for failing to rein in Israel’s “indiscriminate” bombing of Gaza.

An investigation by the Guardian, which was based on a review of internal state department documents and interviews with people familiar with sensitive internal deliberations, reveals how special mechanisms have been used over the last few years to shield Israel from US human rights laws, even as other allies’ military units who receive US support – including, sources say, Ukraine – have privately been sanctioned and faced consequences for committing human rights violations. State department officials have in effect been able to circumvent the US law that is meant to prevent US complicity in human rights violations by foreign military units – the 1990s-era Leahy law, named after the now retired Vermont senator Patrick Leahy – because, former officials say, extraordinary internal state department policies have been put in place that show extreme deference to the Israeli government. No such special arrangements exist for any other US ally.

The lack of enforcement of the Leahy law in Israel appears especially troubling to its namesake. In a statement to the Guardian, the former Vermont senator said the purpose of the Leahy law was to shield the US from culpability for gross violations of human rights by foreign security forces that receive US aid and deter future violations. “But the law has not been applied consistently, and what we have seen in the West Bank and Gaza is a stark example of that. Over many years I urged successive US administrations to apply the law there, but it has not happened,” Leahy said. Among the incidents that have been reviewed since 2020 were the killing of Shireen Abu Akleh, the Palestinian-American journalist who was shot by Israeli forces in May 2022; the death of Omar Assad, a 78-year-old Palestinian-American, who died in January 2022 after being held in Israeli custody; and the alleged extrajudicial killing of Ahmad Abdu, a 25-year-old who was shot at dawn by Israeli forces in May 2021 while sitting in his car.

A report in Haaretz describes how, after opening fire on the car, Israeli troops pulled Abdu out, dragged him a few meters down the road, then left his bloody body in the road and departed. In the review into Abdu’s death, which reports suggest may have been a case of mistaken identity, internal state department documents note that Israel declined to respond to questions by state department officials about the shooting. In Omar Assad’s case, the Israeli military said last June it was not bringing criminal charges against soldiers who were involved in his death, even after he was alleged to have been dragged from a car, bound and blindfolded after being stopped at a checkpoint. The army said the soldiers would not face prosecution because their actions could not directly be linked to Assad’s death from cardiac arrest, the Associated Press reported. Assad, a US citizen, had spent about 40 years in the midwest before retiring home to the West Bank in 2009.

snip

but at least Israel does take action against those that allegedly commit these crimes, unlike HAMAS, who celebrate such crimes against humanity.

So, why was HAMAS left off that list when there is ample evidence that they committed those atrocities?
Could it be because of the anti Israel bias riddled throughout the UN?
Probably so.

I also hope that they'll reverse themselves, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it.

Hamas may be on the list once Israel gives the U.N. authorization to conduct an actual investigation, not merely an "information-gathering" mission.

To date, Israel has refused to co-operate with, or permit, an investigation by the U.N. bodies with actual investigatory powers. Ms Patten's report itself notes the lack of cooperation with the UN's investigative bodies. That is disturbing, in the context of what is at stake.

There are in fact issues with Ms Patten's report. I urge you to read the link attached, it's an eye-opener.

As for why Hamas is not named in the UN's list, Ms Patten herself provides this clue:

https://mondoweiss.net/2024/03/heres-what-pramila-pattens-un-report-on-oct-7-sexual-violence-actually-said/

the observations contained in the Patten report?

If so, in what direction? Exhaustive evidence of multiple violent rapes vs observations pointing to plausible multiple violent rapes? Adding Islamic Jihad to the list? Noting unaffiliated individuals joining in multiple violent rapes?

The Patten report contains more than sufficient data to put Hamas on that list. Having additional evidence would hardly dent Hamas' stellar record of weaponizing rape.

Was rape weaponized as a tool of war by Hamas or is atrocity propaganda weaponized by Israel as a tool to continue its genocide?

I think we need answers that are based on a full, unfettered and authority-vested investigation.

I have no idea where the findings would fall on your questions but really, neither do you.

Why such resistance to an actual investigation? I'm all for it, wherever the chips may fall.

"Was rape weaponized as a tool of war by Hamas or is atrocity propaganda weaponized by Israel as a tool to continue its genocide?"
Don't be surprised if they get a bit testy with you.

Do we need answers based on a full unfettered and authority vested investigation? If your goal is to convict Hamas leaders of crimes against humanity, certainly. Do we want answers based on such investigation to blacklist Hamas as mass rapists when plenty of evidence of this already exists? I see no reason for it whatsoever.

I have a good idea, based on the Patten report, where the findings would fall in any investigation of Hamas rapes. And so do you. The question is, why such resistance on the part of UN to blacklist Hamas based on the evidence already submitted to UN?

None. Further, what little circumstantial evidence exists is based on information from "Israeli national institutions" and claims made by eyewitnesses, some of whose claims were found to be "unfounded" or discredited.

No one has been allowed to talk to rape victims and nor would any sane person ask such a question of them.

The question is for people who care about truth and about protecting innocent lives.

Like you, I realized the futility.

I always believe women. See my response above.

I then planned to send you some pictures too but I don't think it will matter. Some chasms are too wide to bridge. It's all very sad.

You will only accept live verified testimony directly from the victims

I accept the testimony given by the bodies of those who did not survive. That is enough evidence for me.

But let's leave it at that. This is too emotionally draining.

I grieve any victims of sexual and other types of violence as I know you do too.

Peace

Peace and Goodwill.

circumstantial?

Is what these women endured circumstantial to them being raped?

How do you get circumstantially raped anyway?

Are we scraping the bottom of the Hamas and UN aplologetics barrel yet, or is there more to come?

If there are, I believe the women. Always. As I believe the hostage who was released and her testimony about the sexual violence she was subjected to in captivity.

But there are no such testimonies from Oct 7 victims as you claim. Israel refused to let Ms Patten speak with any victims.

There are a few eyewitness accounts that may or not stand up to scrutiny. One is particularly lurid and horrible. We'll never know, as Israel refuses to cooperate with an investigation.

As for other "evidence"? Many here claim there are videos online of the sexual violence. Here is what Ms Patten says about that:

In the conclusion section of her report, she states:



All these doubts could be put to rest by cooperating with a full investigation.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl/index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181?obOrigUrl=true
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/woman-released-from-gaza-three-hostages-told-us-they-were-sexually-abused-by-their-captors/
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/04/middleeast/sexual-assault-october-7-israel-witness-int/index.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-least-10-freed-hostages-were-sexually-abused-by-hamas-in-captivity-doctor-says/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/12/20/hamas-sexual-violence-rape-hostages-oct-7/71917113007/

Or don't believe them. It's on you. But don't expect verbal testimonies from dead women whethey they were killed before or after they were raped. This expectation crosses the line between the ridiculous and the obscene.

Of course I was talking about live victims and you knew that. Bye

And you are skipping past it, in contradiction to your previous statement, in your haste to end this thread while you are behind.

Here is your record so far:
- You refuse to accept forensic evidence of hundreds of rapes, mutilations and murders committed by Hamas.
- You refuse to accept circumstantial evidence, which is legitimate and admissible type of evidence, of the same,.
- You refuse to accept eyewitness testimonies of the same.
- You refuse to accept second-hand accounts of testimonies of women who described their rapes.
- You refuse to acknowledge the stated findings of the Patten report.
- Finally, you refuse to acknowledge, despite your pledges to the contrary, the testimony of a live victim who had the courage to publicly describe the most painful and traumatic experience of her life.

And you refuse to do all of the above in order to excuse a UN failure to include Hamas, a horrifically vicious terrorist gang, in its blacklist of parties guilty of sexual violence.

I find this disturbing.

I acknowledged the testimony of the released hostage and stated I believe her.
That's a first-hand account.

I don't know what you mean by "second-hand accounts of someone describing their own rape" and I have not seen anything resembling that.

Our conversation was about the sexual violence on Oct 7. You've broadened that to include murders and mutilations and accuse me of denying those, which is not true.

I accept the Patten Report for what it is and its conclusions for what they are worth. I do not accept it as an investigation or proof which it was not.

My objections have nothing to do with the blacklist or with Hamas. I have explained that.

Rape as a tool of war is a heinous war crime. But we do not know if that occurred without a proper investigation.

Rape committed by individuals during war is one of the consequences of war and one of the reasons I oppose war. But that is very different from using rape as a tool of waging war in a planned, systematic way.

It's the accusations of systematic, mass rapes that are fuelling the hatred and justifications necessary to commit this genocide. Yet we have no proof of that because the party that should want to prove that refuses the investigation necessary to do so. It's absurd and very disturbing.

Have a lovely day!

In the conclusions section of the report, Patten writes that “In the medicolegal assessment of available photos and videos, no tangible indications of rape could be identified.” (Para 74)

Moreover, the report adds in a footnote that:

“The mission team took note of the averments of the Israeli authorities that some of the incriminating online materials, including those specifically depicting acts of sexual violence, had been removed…it is the view of the mission team that, had clear digital evidence of sexual violence or orders to commit sexual violence been circulated in the mainstream, it would have likely been discovered given the volume of the information posted online and further recirculated, making the removal of all trace of such material unlikely.”

Let me give you a fuller context of what she wrote:

https://news.un.org/en/sites/news.un.org.en/files/atoms/files/Mission_report_of_SRSG_SVC_to_Israel-oWB_29Jan_14_feb_2024.pdf

Quite a difference from the arbitrarily selected snippet you decided to quote, isn't it?

It's as if someone is trying to hide something...

By the appropriate UN agencies. One that will lead to any and all perpetrators being put on the list.

It's not that hard to grasp this concept. Why is it being opposed?

being opposed when sufficient evidence to warrant this inclusion is available today in favor of delaying it and waiting for a mere likelihood of more evidence of the same at some time in the future?

And why is it opposed by a professed advocate for believing rape victims?

And why would the said advocate attempt to belittle the findings of the Patten report to make excuses for the UN decision to give Hamas a pass?

I've said what I have to say in my post just now.

Again, have a lovely day!

There are no answers to excuse this. The questions were rhetorical.

It's a lovely day here in Ontario. Must get to my gardening. Ciao.

My sincerest apologies for bothering you with the facts. Too bad for them.

Enjoy the sun.

that's , everybody.

Hamas recorded themselves gang raping, and murdering women on 10/7. This is truly disgusting.

I mean if the UN is THAT corrupt, why stay? See how other nations respond or if other nations follow along out the door.

"If you don't like it here, go back to where you came from!"

In fact, I heard it so often, I lost count of all the bigots who considered this rubberstamp response sufficient to dismiss all legitimate grievances.

You might have thought otherwise.

No one physically moved to the UN by choice or by hook or by crook.

Most nations consider the UN to be a diplomatic tool toward global peace.

If a single nation’s emotional response is that the UN is ‘after them’ or is receiving unfair treatment, there might be a reason for that treatment. So perhaps that nation, rather than just complaining about the UN, should either use some introspection or maybe consider leaving the UN due to having issues.

No one is actually moving out of a country or being told to ‘go back home’.

I thought most adults knew what the UN was.

In the absence of any cause for additional introspection, examining the source of the recommendation in search of plausible rationale for making it. Results: inconclusive.

Oh, yeah, no I am not.

They have lost a great deal of credibility. That's a shame. Leaving Hamas off that list destroys what credibility they had left.

On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly adopted Resolution 181 (also known as the Partition Resolution) that would divide Great Britain's former Palestinian mandate into Jewish and Arab states in May 1948.

The UN had 56 members vs the 192 they have now. And many of the countries that voted against the Resolution have still not recognized Israel, yet have positions of power in the UN.

the governing body that shows pronounced bias against Israel today.

And your point is... what, exactly? To emphasize how biased UN has become over time?

...I've been bashed here for being anti-semitic when I've used "Israel" instead of "netanyahu" or "netanyahu's government".

I am quoting content that I didn't generate - that keeps me off the hook, doesn't it?

But I will keep your advice in mind the next time I am tempted to blame Israel in its entirety for the policies of Netanyahu's government.

I’m so fucking angry at all of this blatant, over the top ANTI-SEMITISM that I could scream out metaphorically, but I can’t do that here for fear of having a major problem.

Jews are Always held to the highest standards as the masses attempt to “eradicate” them from the planet. Perhaps their enemies are beginning to understand the meaning of the word which they themselves invoke so freely. Interesting that they want 300 Palestinians released for every Israeli in exchanges so that must be their perceived value set by their own people, right? No? It’s their call, not the Israelis’. In this case, I agree.

when they claim none of their employees are complicit in the Oct. 7 attack.

It has been widely reported by Israeli media, based on medical records victims released to the media, autopsy reports, and information from sexual violence crisis centers, that it was not only woman who were raped and mutilated. Men were raped. The bodies of men were castrated and sexually mutilated.
The United Nations leaving out these atrocities from their report sends a clear message to the world. The U,N, has been captured by antisemitic extremists who say very loudly every day that Jews Don't Count.