When people see those they agree with on an issue acting in a way they disagree with, they try to come up with explanation to try and disavow the evidence of their own eyes.

Concern for Palestinians and antisemitism are two separate issues. A person can have one, the other or both.

I told my husband the other day I would not be surprised if there are not maga instigators infiltrating among the students and protesting with the students.

or deprivations of anyone outside these shores. (and mostly, to any outside their own household)
So - solidarity with the Palestinian people or cause .. ? Not even as a passing thought.

I could see a few agitators causing violence, property destruction and then having RW media blame it on leftists...

But, hey, cool dig at the far left.

in that direction. Are we claiming these people are not 'left' - or that the clearly antisemitic tropes and message is not present?

The claim was that the far right and the far left, as a whole, met at antisemitic. THAT is what I am saying is just not true.

Frankly, I get sick of people on the left trying to say that the far left is just the same as the far right. But in this instance, you are not correct. Sure, there are individuals that may do that, but that is NOT indicative of the political position as a whole.

this nasty strain of ancient bigotry and race hatred - but they do not 'meet' there. Okay then.

My own maxim : "You might want to take a look at who you're marching with today ... If you truly wish to avoid the embarrassment - of hanging with racists."

Which is the opposite of the extreme nationalism of fascism. How is that hard for you to understand.

Again, people are people, and there might be a few who are generally far left who have some bigotry for a million reasons. But the far left ideology isn't the reason for the bigotry. Stop shitting on the far left. They are your allies. You can't just keep kicking your allies and then seem surprised when they don't support you anymore.

in any way shape or form, my friend. And I 'understand' that quite ably - and quite sincerely, to the depths ...

The 'left' gets crapped on - when they are deserving (just as everyone else). They are not 'immunized' by their label.

If you don't like the left, there are probably better places here.

My argument the whole time is that you are GROSSLY wrong about the left and right meeting at the extremes. They are polar opposites and not the same. Just because you don't like the far left doesn't give you the ability to incorrectly say they are the same as the far right. That shows a complete lack of understanding of the political spectrum.

And that will never keep me from criticizing when I think it is warranted.
As you point out the extreme left is really not Democratic (big D or little D) at all. They are extremists - and by virtual of that should be checked to the sidelines and exposed when necessary to blunt their (generally deleterious) efforts and agenda. And I feel quite similarly about extremists on the right - or extremists of any variety or stripe for that matter. And where these two overlap and show similarity (in my mind and contrary to yours) is in that very extremism - coupled with a rejection of democratic norms and process.

You've gotten completely hung up on some phrasing about "meeting" - which to me is hardly as important as the more salient fact that both left and right are currently exhibiting fairly overt signs of antisemitic thought and action. If you object so strongly to calling this an 'overlap' - then so be it. But I think it much more important that it be recognized as being there.

Edit for clarity: 'elements' of both left and right are exhibiting signs. and probably neither left or right as a whole, or as definition

I applaud the demonstrators! There are many of all faiths demonstrating. Demonstrating against genocide is noble. Defending it is not.

well thought, nor observant, one.
Take a look at where right wing media and MAGA talking points are on this subject.

I think it's forces outside of America.

But I don't think they started it. I did see something about Speaker (for now) Johnson planning to go to Columbia to make a spectacle.

Can use against President Biden. It doesn’t seem to be spontaneous like the George Floyd protests.

I could be wrong of course but I am suspicious !

I work with a few, all 19-22 years of age. They really hate Israel, and they are the furthest thing from MAGA. The are very far to the left.

Melania is measuring jail cells so she can make him a quilted blanked.

Claude Kirk, the then governor of Florida, said Mary Ann Vecchio was “part of a nationally organized conspiracy of professional agitators” that was “responsible for the students’ death" at Kent State. She was 14.

My family knew some of them personally. They were open and transparent about their efforts to foment a revolution. It's a matter of record.

These kinds of protests don't happen spontaneously. They are planned and organized by people who have a goal in mind.

Last edited Thu Apr 25, 2024, 01:25 AM - Edit history (1)

Remember when they joined Assad during the Syrian War and caused a refugee crisis in many countries in Europe? The crisis led to more right wing thinking in the political sphere of many countries. Putin is not above orchestrating strife and war to get what he wants.

I don't even see them among the outsider agitators. Usually there is maga at least counter protesting and stirring up stuff.

Even today at UT Austin I saw a few students in the quiet pro-Israel counter protesters, who appeared to be plain old Texas rednecks. However, they were no match compared to the protesters.

Most of the outside agitators in NYC appear to be minorities or those affiliated with Jewish Voice for Peace. (JVP can be extremely radical in their protesting. I don't know why, but I've seen them get super-aggressive) . I see very few white males hanging around any of them.

We also have Party for Socialism and Liberation where I live. They're involved with this turmoil in NYC and they're annoyingly super-aggressive also.

That Russia/USSR has taken advantage of an institute of higher learning to subvert and recruit.

There is definitely room and I think a need for protest

In the 60s people acted like the anti-war protesters were anti-American but they were very much American and protesters are to this day. Agitators are a different thing and people work all day every day to undermine the faith in our institutions and our values are a different thing.

But they're hoping to take advantage of it.

Reminds me of 2016 and the masterful Russian propaganda that used what was already there, like the conspiracy theory of rigged primaries, exaggerated it and flooded social media. The election became entirely anti-Hillary, a corrupt outrageously evil caricature created to disgust and anger potential Democratic voters and discourage voting for the Democrat.

Article about Hillary: most comments anti-Hillary. Article about non-Democrats or third party candidates: most comments anti-Hillary. People swore up and down it was about policy but couldn't tell you what was in the Democratic Party platform, the history of the Democratic Party disappeared.

Republicans were still doing the same old culture wars and accusing Democrats of being socialists, but Trump did use the rigging and Hillary as corrupt villain conspiracy theory along with emails (Crooked Hillary) and successfully pretended to be a populist. Many Trump voters said they didn't like him but voted for him anyway.

Impression I get is that the protests are turning into anti-Israel. Anti-West. Anti-America. Anti-Biden. A lot of antis, not pros. Same targeting young potential Democratic voters, same giving words new definitions, same erasing of facts and history, same riling up emotions so they feel disgust and hate.

I'm a geek on twitter. So I expect the whole family values crusade to ramp up before election day. I BLOCK them all. Don't know why my 3 posts a month on stock markets would interest any of them.

SO to the OP, we are under siege, or soon to be.

Rec

As you note, there are legitimate reasons to protest, but the scope and scale of these organized protests - which began, not at all spontaneously, on October 8 - stands out in contrast to other things of equal or greater importance.

Children are being killed all over the world due to climate change. Where are the protests?

U.S. allies commit atrocities all over the world, every day. Where are the protests?

Under Trump, the U.S. abandoned the Kurds to genocide. The Kurds were admired as allies by DSA and other socialist groups in the U.S. They were distressed, but there were NO massive organized rallies or protests that lasted for months. That discrepancy alone makes me suspicious that these protests are not grass roots motivated.

And don't forget, MAGA is a political front that carries out Putin's wishes.

There was one image from on campus showing someone holding a sign about how hamas would target jews, but it wasn't specifically calling for the targeting (if it is read in the most charitable light).

Even if there are no agitators, the media still loves to conflate stuff off campus with stuff on campus.

And other far-left folks who've always hated Biden anyway.

Have we considered all our options. They're pretty sneaky with their buggies and all. If it wasn't them it has to be the Albanians. They rarely hit back at us so they'd be great to blame for all our problems.

I have three kids in the 18 to 26 range, and all three hate Israel with a seething passion. They are far from right wing