that no matter what opinion I offered and no matter how carefully I offered it, I'd be flamed by somebody, and I'd rather not get involved in a hopeless, pointless argument with strangers on an internet message board. I recognize the grave seriousness of the situation but my opinion about it isn't worth shit and is bound to piss off someone.

I opt out of jury on DU if the topic is any you have mentioned.

committed the relatively narrow-range of crime as specified by the alert. The alerts are categorized as specific violations of the TOS, not general statements of dissatisfaction.

a personal attack. Doesn't matter which side of the argument the alerted post is on. If it deliberately gaslights the other person's words, I treat it as a personal attack.

I am so disgusted at the vitriol in these posts, and the deliberate twisting the words/position of the post being responded to. I figure one fewer voice gaslighting and spouting vitriol in the thread is a good thing.

I find that it's extremely difficult to discuss hot, controversial topics on the internet. People misunderstand each other and tend to find hostility where none is intended. Something gets lost in communication when it's missing things like facial expression, vocal tone, posture, etc.

. . . . instantly came to regret it.

Just the other day I stupidly made a post at the periphery on the topics and was all but accused of murder or treason or some such awful crime. PM me for the post in question and the identity of my accuser.

Yeah, I'm done.

There are so many terms that are thrown out there (and I am also guilty) that just turn off the conversation.

Any of the thousands of epithets related to smelvis.

I understand those who feel attacked or the need to attack because of personal emotional involvement and the color of their experiences.
I cannot seek out to set up a common ground environment without being accused of taking sides, so unless I wish to be dragged down into the hate and fear to drown in it, I must stand on the sidelines and watch the tragedy unfold as the blood keeps spreading.
I am forced into silence because I know I cannot take sides in such a black and white arena, especially not when the death of civilians on both sides are being justified as a "survival" tactic.

The average person in the middle East just wants to live their own lives with their families and friends in relative peace, no matter who their neighbors are or what religion they belong to. They may be clannish and stubborn, but all the regional cultures there have historic guest traditions and communal traditions that do respectfully accept outsiders or strangers so long as they come in peace and respect. No matter what those struggling for petty regional power want to do and proclaim.

And that's where my personal line in the sand begins and ends.

So now, again, after this - silence and weary sadness.

Haele

...to the other person.

Rather than working around the difference in meaning, asserting meanings becomes the fight.

In some cases, perhaps that's fair. The meanings of words can be twisted for malicious reasons, as a method of propaganda.

But sometimes a disagreement on words in perfectly reasonable and honest. And some people don't want to hear that. They are much, much more motivated to put you in a box based on their own interpretation of words, assigning you motivations of lying and hidden agendas.

That other person knows the word means what I say it means, and when they say it doesn't it's a smokescreen! It's gaslighting! I'm not going to let them get away with it!

My only point being, this isn't a new issue. Nor is it something many people under better circumstances can discuss civilly.

You're a thoughtful and intelligent person. I understand how being stymied by any ability at meaningful discussion is maddening. Just know, you're not alone.

It is not a topic that has ever had rational discourse on DU, no matter one’s stance. I look forward to when it is returned to the I/P group.

I figured if someone wanted to share the articles, they would find their way to GD.

I hate confrontation and don't come here to fight with people.

I have a feeling that there are many here that feel the way we do and won't say so. Thank you for this thread.

I just wondered if such a thing can happen to a thread for everybody. Highly unlikely, but it made me wonder for a bit.

Nothing I say here is going to make a whit of difference outside of DU - and anything I say gets me flamed, or insulted. Even something as simple as asking for context regarding a post that consisted solely of two images recently.

My line in the sand is that it is worth it to call out "my brother made me do it" posts. Beyond that I stay out of it - assuming I can identify what the thread is about - since some people have gotten creative recently.

Good faith interlocutors will respect those definitions and adapt appropriately.

Bad faith interlocutors will not. They will insist on their definition and often deploy propaganda techniques to defend it.

Ignorance abounds.

Venality also abounds.

Because I honestly didn't realize there was so much hatred amongst us. I guess I naively thought we were kind of all on the same page about right and wrong.

But we're not.

And for all of this to be happening months before an election in which tRump is on the ballot... I'm really worried.

Obviously, what's happening on this site and on American college campuses as far as debates and protests is nothing compared to what everyone in that region of the Middle East is going through.

At least we have our homes, clothing, food, shelter, and most importantly, peace (when we're not caught up in a random mass shooting).

The thought of bombs raining down on me is absolutely terrifying. And nobody should have to go through that, whether in Israel or Gaza or anywhere else really.

It's amazing and sad that we're not all in agreement on that. I think if we could start there... Just an acknowledgment that innocent people should not be targeted and killed for the crimes of powerful elites... It would go a really long way towards healing the divide that's on this site and other venues.

Flame away?

It is good to acknowledge that, in war, innocent people will die for the crimes of powerful elites, even though they were not the target.

Sometimes, the innocent will be working in a factory which is attacked.
Sometimes, the innocent will be crossing a bridge that is being taken out.

Perhaps an important target is surrounded by helpers that have no choice about being there. Or they happen to be delivering pizza at the wrong time. Or they work in a ball bearing factory.

Imagine a war where each side is focused on the annihilation of the other side. Where virtually all citizens are working toward that goal. Imagine that the war has been going on for more than 20 years. The citizens of these 2 countries would, possibly, view the other side as all warriors, no civilians.

During WWII, many adults that stayed on USA soil, women included, were happy to be saving rubber and helping to recycle for war materials. Many working on building the instruments of War. Can they be considered a part of the War effort, and therefore targets?

The Atomic bombs that were used against Japan are, in my mind, the most egregious examples of targeting in a way that would likely kill, maim, and cause future harm to far more humans than some other targeting methods which would likely have been just as successful.

Too many people (well, really less than ten, mostly) tear up the dictionary and fill in their own definitions, and then take it from there. Why the I/P forum isn't good enough for those obsessed uniquely with the subject is beyond me. Maybe it's that the wider the canyon you shout into, the better chance you have of hearing your voice echo back to you?

To "poll says," I add "Bernie says" to my "do-not-open" list. Granted, like the stopped clock, what he says makes sense every now and then, but not often enough for me to want to open the threads, which are rather predictable to begin with. I'm a sucker for any thread that begins with "Al Franken says" or "Jon Ossoff says," but they are super-smart full-time Democrats who say stuff I do want to hear/read.

Being on another continent between 6 and 9 time zones away most of the year means I usually miss most posts when they first show up. If something predictable shows up, deliberately designed to get us at each other's throats, I usually only get there after most of the carnage. Something like Sharpsburg/Antietam was better visited, if at all, well after the fact than during the battle.

It's not right that a handful of people can make one subject untouchable. Wonder why that is?

I won't give up. I can't, I won't. The eggshells are annoying to have to dance around on, but can't be helped because stupidity and ignorance is the norm now.

Forgiveness is so hard. Especially when the unimaginable has occurred.
We MUST work for peace. Each and every one of us. Humanity requires this.

I recently read a quote that resonated with me.

Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.