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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe're waiting for the SC to decide whether there are 'official acts' in the indictment which deserve immunity
...but they won't talk about evidence in the case in front of them, or allow the DOJ attorney or Jack Smith to argue the specifics of the prosecution at hand.
How do the justices determine what's an official act without looking at the evidence, or at least allowing some part of the facts in this case to be presented to them before making these decisions?
It's a farce for the Court to present themselves as the ultimate arbiter of what was an official action by Trump without essentially serving as a substitute for the People, who are represented by a judge and jury who would hear and adjudicate ALL of the evidence and testimony.
It may be that the Court will decide to send it back to trial with jury instructions and other guidance for the presiding judge making the distinctions they seem to think are so important, especially after agreement on both sides that there are several clearly private acts being charged.
But in the Robert's court's view, they are the ultimate word on the law, certainly not the lowly federal judges and juries who do the work of actually facing the facts in prosecutions and deciding matters of law everyday with an alacrity this Supreme Court hasn't yet demonstrated in any action they've undertaken which doesn't benefit Trump.
They are in a quandary of their own making by taking this appeal, and the reason these issues of immunity are so hard for them - outside of the efforts of more than a couple of the justices to downplay the insurrection and conjure up innocuous scenarios where Donald Trump was leading a peaceful protest - is that they are institutionally ill-equipped to decide these issues outside of the squirrelly sense of self-preservation rattling around in their own heads.
What's even more disturbing is that any evidence that they're wrong about the issues in this case that they arbitrarily decide will be obscured for as long as they refuse to allow the trial to continue. It's not as if they can't look at the end of the prosecution for whatever they believe is immune and act on that complete record of charges and courtroom generated evidence.
Is it weird to anyone else that these wasn't one charge in the indictment before them mentioned or discussed by any justice?
Fiendish Thingy
(15,657 posts)I dont think they will rule which of Trumps specific acts are official and which are not.
I think SCOTUS could broadly rule that, except under narrow circumstances, official acts would be exempt from prosecution.
Then, I think they would send it back to Chutkan and say go ahead, figure out if any of the charged offences involve official acts. This could potentially open up a whole new avenue for appeal and delay by Trump.
We shall see.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...they could just send it back to Chutkan with instructions for the jury.
Really a worthless and unnecessary micromanaging, if that's all they end up with. There's already myriad protections for official acts, and they haven't pointed to ONE charge that runs afoul of anything they're concerned about.
I do think the aim of the right wing of the court is more pernicious than just correcting the indictment, or even defending Executive privileges.
What they want to do is give Trump a shield from prosecution and they're trying to find some overarching reason for interfering, but it's clear from this hearing that their objections are not only inventions, but badly constructed ones which they can't even associate with ANY of the actual charges in a three hour hearing.
Fiendish Thingy
(15,657 posts)Such as targeted assassination of members of SCOTUS as an official act by the president.
I just dont see how they can thread that needle and shield Trump without exposing themselves to that risk at the same time.
I think the worst they can do is delay and complicate his trial process.
At least until we have the numbers to expand and pack the court (not anytime soon).
Fiendish Thingy
(15,657 posts)That was my quibble - I dont think they will address the specific acts in the indictment, just the general topic of official acts being immune under certain circumstances.
bucolic_frolic
(43,307 posts)Deliver immunity verdict in 2025. Yes if Trump, No if Biden.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)Calling something an "official act" does not make it so. Nothing that was done was an "official act". It was all done with criminal intent to help Donald Trump stay in the White House.
Hope22
(1,864 posts)Yet it was a weird description of a bloody insurrection that was given by a judge today! Thomas was particularly disgusting all while having a paid insurrectionist for a wife. I dont think most of the justices would know a traitor if they saw one! So nice they can prejudge the case. Unbelievable!
budkin
(6,717 posts)And might as well throw in some "official" immunity while they're at it.
senseandsensibility
(17,139 posts)but nevertheless I am beginning to despair, at least a little. The entire court seemed to be missing the most salient issues . Of course the heritage judges were a million times worse, but I thought the liberals also gave too much credence to the idea that frivolous indictments might happen in the future.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...despite the skepticism and cynicism the three right wing justices expressd toward the lower courts and our citizen juries.