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no_hypocrisy

(46,207 posts)
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 05:14 AM Apr 26

If the SCOTUS Majority rules all Presidents have absolute immunity

during their tenure, wouldn't that nullify the principle of impeachment? "High crimes and misdemeanors" wouldn't mean anything as the President could do anything. ANYTHING.

Example: A President could literally sell confidential highly classified information to Putin and claim it as "an Official Act" because (according to him) it prevented probable nuclear war. Intelligence would be destroyed. Lives lost. But excusable b/c the President had "absolute immunity".

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Mike Niendorff

(3,463 posts)
1. On a related point:
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 05:32 AM
Apr 26

Even if impeachment were technically still possible, a President who can commit murder with impunity could just pre-emptively murder any Senator who might be inclined to convict him.

Presto! Impeachment can literally never happen.


MDN

sop

(10,266 posts)
16. Article I, Section 3, Clause 7 provides that the sanctions for an impeached and convicted individual
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 08:09 AM
Apr 26

are limited to removal from office and potentially a bar from holding future office. Impeachment and conviction of the president by the House and Senate isn't the same as being tried and convicted for a crime in a court of law. Other than removal from office, there's no further punishment.

Arguing that impeaching a president can be the only remedy for all criminal acts, not a criminal prosecution in a court of law just like every other American, is the same as saying the president is above the law and has total immunity.

FBaggins

(26,762 posts)
2. No... but they probably won't rule that way
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 05:50 AM
Apr 26

The constitution explicitly says that an impeached and removed president is subject to indictment/trial/conviction.

That is, in fact, part of the immunity argument (i .e., that impeachment is the constitutional remedy for presidential crimes.

But they probably won’t rule that way even if they want to help him. They seem to be leaning toward sending it back to the lower courts for more evaluation… which would almost certainly delay the criminal trials past the election.

If he wins and pardons himself - they no longer have to deal with it

no_hypocrisy

(46,207 posts)
4. But therein lies the hypocrisy.
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 06:16 AM
Apr 26

Immunity is implied to be universal. IOW, the same act can't be criminally prosecuted at law, but it can be prosecuted legislatively. To pass it off as finding the "appropriate forum" is a specious argument. AND there are two different standards of accountability: in a criminal court, one faces penalties such as imprisonment, loss of the right to vote, etc. and with impeachment, you're no longer President. You can go on your merry way.

Bettie

(16,129 posts)
9. And they can do it, literally with his name in it
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 07:02 AM
Apr 26

and there is no recourse.

The one thing we've learned about our system of government is that it presumes that the people in positions of power will not be corrupt. The majority of our supreme court is owned by various wealthy individuals. Corruption is quickly becoming the rule, rather than the exception.

Lonestarblue

(10,086 posts)
5. The point of taking this appeal was to delay any trial before the election.
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 06:51 AM
Apr 26

If Trump wins, their tactic worked and they do nothing because all the prosecutions will be dropped. If he loses, they’re probably working on another Bush-Gore scenario where they can appoint him as president. This is certainly the most corrupt SC of my lifetime.

rubbersole

(6,732 posts)
13. Absolutely correct.
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 07:49 AM
Apr 26

By just taking this case the SC demonstrated that the constitution means nothing to them.

MOMFUDSKI

(5,677 posts)
8. This never had anything to do with immunity.
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 07:01 AM
Apr 26

It is being used to stall court dates until after the election.

Aussie105

(5,437 posts)
10. Stalling seems to be the logical reason.
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 07:07 AM
Apr 26

Wanting to provide one specific past president with a time defined window of immunity isn't on their books.

No one would be that stupid!
Well, Clarence and the 'I like beer!' chap, possibly.

Generic Brad

(14,276 posts)
12. It would also nullify the need for SCOTUS
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 07:23 AM
Apr 26

They would cede all power to the executive office and become either unnecessary or ceremonial.

3825-87867

(855 posts)
15. Don't think this really has anything to do with Putin.
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 08:06 AM
Apr 26

He's a useful idiot for some.
We're looking at the landscape and not seeing the ditch in front. This is so America's Rich can take over. Of course they aren't going to allow Putin control HERE...he gets much of the rest of the world.
America's new Robber Barons get America, Europe and South America. Putin gets Asia, Africa and they split Australia.
The Project for a New World Order from Rummy and Wolfy et al in the late 90s will finally come to fruition.
I can even foresee America being divided into Feudal sections with certain Billionaire's ruling in each with their sub rulers...a sort of Camelot or NYC Mob family situation.
Enjoy it while we can.

And apologize to our children and grand children.

BWdem4life

(1,699 posts)
19. Impeachment is already meaningless.
Fri Apr 26, 2024, 06:22 PM
Apr 26

Only way it could succeed is if there are enough of the opposite party to convict in the senate, making it obviously political and not an actual remedy for anything.

It was meaninful in 1974. The country has changed too much since then.

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