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Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 02:17 AM Feb 2012

CIA Claims Release of its History of the Bay of Pigs Debacle Would “Confuse the Public.”

Late last year, the Central Intelligence Agency explained to Judge Kessler of the US District Court in Washington DC that releasing the final volume of its three-decade-old history of the 1961 Bay of Pigs debacle would “confuse the public,” and should be withheld because it is a “predecisional” document. Wow. And I thought that I had heard them all.

On the 50th anniversary of the Bay of Pigs invasion, the National Security Archive filed a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit for the release of a five-volume CIA history of the Bay of Pigs affair. In response to the lawsuit, the CIA negotiated to release three volumes of the history — the JFK Assassination Records Review Board had already released Volume III– with limited redaction, currently available on the National Security Archive’s website. At the time, the Director of the National Security Archive’s Cuba Documentation project, Peter Kornbluh, quipped that getting historic documents released from the CIA was “the bureaucratic equivalent of passing a kidney stone.” He was right. The Agency refused to release the final volume of this history, and the National Security Archive is not giving up on the fight.

snip......


Despite the claims of the CIA’s chief historian David Robarge, the document should not remain in the CIA vaults because its conclusions “could cause scholars, journalists, and others interested in the subject at hand to reach an erroneous or distorted view of the Agency’s role.” Historians, after all, are well trained in treating documents –


http://nsarchive.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/cia-claims-release-of-its-history-of-the-bay-of-pigs-debacle-would-confuse-the-public/

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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CIA Claims Release of its History of the Bay of Pigs Debacle Would “Confuse the Public.” (Original Post) Ichingcarpenter Feb 2012 OP
Okay CIA Admitt you don't want us to see something. DON"T CALL US STUPID! Justice wanted Feb 2012 #1
A prime actor (or actors) is still alive. HubertHeaver Feb 2012 #6
EXACTLY!!! Ecumenist Feb 2012 #11
The truth would confuse us Politicalboi Feb 2012 #2
Yeah because they obviously didn't know what the fuck they were doing, either! nt gateley Feb 2012 #3
BS. Rex Feb 2012 #4
Oh I BET it will... nt Poll_Blind Feb 2012 #5
Years ago, the book The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2012 #7
Given how much of the Bay of Pigs was done when the CIA was gobbling acid, you're probably right on saras Feb 2012 #8
DU and the American People Ichingcarpenter Feb 2012 #10
This is the best time to release it. 20-30 years from now the red scare / cold war... joshcryer Feb 2012 #9
I'm hoping my friend Octafish will Ichingcarpenter Feb 2012 #12
LEMNITZER and DULLES knew Bay of Pigs Operation was COMPROMISED, yet gave it their blessings... Octafish Feb 2012 #35
Thanks for finding the history, photo Ichingcarpenter Feb 2012 #42
You are most welcome, Ichingcarpenter. The first link's Vol. III is key. Octafish Feb 2012 #44
Damn Solly Mack Feb 2012 #13
Funny, I don't feel confused, even conflicted. DCKit Feb 2012 #14
What a bunch of horseshit gopiscrap Feb 2012 #15
So it's classified...CONFUSING? pinboy3niner Feb 2012 #16
They are correct hootinholler Feb 2012 #17
We need a Bradley Manning in the CIA. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #18
Wouldn't you want someone more competent? msanthrope Feb 2012 #19
The thugs in the CIA are unwilling. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #21
Again, though, wouldn't you want someone more competent than Manning msanthrope Feb 2012 #22
If what Manning did was "no big deal" then why is he on trial? Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #23
Because despite his defender's claims, what he did is a 'big deal.' msanthrope Feb 2012 #27
Competent is what sense? Whistle blowing or getting caught whistle blowing? Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #28
Manning has something more important than "competence." Octafish Feb 2012 #36
How much integrity do you think it took for him to hit a woman in the face? msanthrope Feb 2012 #38
She was his boss and beat him down over it. Octafish Feb 2012 #39
Oh yeah...having to be restrained after hitting a female superior is full of integrity. msanthrope Feb 2012 #40
I'm not making a case. I support Manning over secret government. Octafish Feb 2012 #41
Yes. They are laying the ground for other charges. msanthrope Feb 2012 #45
Seriously, the reason we're classifying documents now is because it would "confuse us"? Capitalocracy Feb 2012 #25
Keeping the electorate in the dark by those it hires is a favorite pastime of the politicians. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #29
time to defund, dismantle cia spanone Feb 2012 #20
That is more or less what JFK said see where it got him! sce56 Feb 2012 #31
Yeah, why do we have the cia? newspeak Feb 2012 #47
I'd love to show you, but it would BLOW YOUR MIND! Capitalocracy Feb 2012 #24
"The CIA undermining its own misinformation campaign would confuse everybody" krispos42 Feb 2012 #26
The USCIA can go to hell ... T S Justly Feb 2012 #30
I'm not confused. CIA is a bunch of criminals. EFerrari Feb 2012 #32
So we'd finally learn of the source for them Higgins boats? nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #33
Time to purge the CIA of the RW fuckers contaminating it. Odin2005 Feb 2012 #34
Bullshit, the only thing "confusing the public" is not knowing or having to guess about history. Uncle Joe Feb 2012 #37
I know this is serious and I am all outraged, too, but my first reaction was to laugh. renie408 Feb 2012 #43
We might be confused into supporting Cuba. Starry Messenger Feb 2012 #46
 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
2. The truth would confuse us
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 02:27 AM
Feb 2012

Like 9/11 the truth there would confuse us also. Can't change history now, how would that look?

Lydia Leftcoast

(48,217 posts)
7. Years ago, the book The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 02:36 AM
Feb 2012

made a convincing case that most "top secret" classifications are intended to hide horrific or embarrassing facts from the American people, not from anyone else, since all intelligence services are thoroughly infiltrated.

 

saras

(6,670 posts)
8. Given how much of the Bay of Pigs was done when the CIA was gobbling acid, you're probably right on
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 02:52 AM
Feb 2012

The book Acid Dreams makes a pretty good case that "not knowing what the fuck they were doing" is a profound understatement.

joshcryer

(62,287 posts)
9. This is the best time to release it. 20-30 years from now the red scare / cold war...
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 02:57 AM
Feb 2012

...rhetoric will be really obscure. Their irrational, fear mongering need to do the Bay of Pigs can only now be fully appreciated. Once the boomers die off then it will be a footnote somewhere.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
12. I'm hoping my friend Octafish will
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 03:12 AM
Feb 2012

give us all the juicy facts. I tend to remember he did one years ago that were, as usual, eye opening.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
35. LEMNITZER and DULLES knew Bay of Pigs Operation was COMPROMISED, yet gave it their blessings...
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 05:51 PM
Feb 2012

...to proceed, right to JFK's face. It's on the record, and too much public scrutiny may significantly decrease the treasonous bastards getting away with it.

The Cubans knew the time and place of invasion. And the United States knew they knew. Yet, JCS Chairman LEMNITZER and CIA Director DULLES knew Bay of Pigs Op was COMPROMISED, yet told President Kennedy their plan -- developed under Eisenhower and presumably for the Nixon madministration to come -- would work without the United States having to intervene militarily.

So, Castro knew the time and place for the attack. Knowing the plan was the compromised, let alone stupid from a military and political point of view, they failed to inform the President. How is that not treason?



Three MO' bits on JFK and the Bay of Pigs Thing...

Know your BFEE: At every turn, JFK was opposed by War Party

"Wasn't that, like, the Bay of Pigs Thing?"

JFK Would NEVER Have Fallen for Phony INTEL!

If it wasn't for JFK saying, "No," to the warmongering anticommunist paranoid greedheads, it's very possible none of us would be here now.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
44. You are most welcome, Ichingcarpenter. The first link's Vol. III is key.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:47 AM
Feb 2012

May it help those of us who remain confused about how secret government is un-American.

Sheesh. If I can learn how Capitalism's Invisible Army serves the 1-Percent, anybody can.

Answer: Those who profit from it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4779172&mesg_id=4779172


 

DCKit

(18,541 posts)
14. Funny, I don't feel confused, even conflicted.
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 03:21 AM
Feb 2012

Bay of pigs, shmay of pigs. What were (are) you boys doing at Guantanimo?

Don't follow the bouncing ball folks.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
17. They are correct
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 11:44 AM
Feb 2012

If the whole story ever came out and was compared to the official story, it will be confusing to those who accepted the official story wholesale.

I wonder if it mentions Zapata Oil?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
19. Wouldn't you want someone more competent?
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 11:55 AM
Feb 2012

I mean, Manning's in the clink with 22 charges against him.

You'd think someone at the CIA would be adept, no?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
22. Again, though, wouldn't you want someone more competent than Manning
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 12:01 PM
Feb 2012

doing the hacking this time?

I mean, everyone here keeps claiming that what Manning stole didn't jeopardize any lives, and it was no big deal. You would think this information would be a big deal, and might jeopardize lives.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
23. If what Manning did was "no big deal" then why is he on trial?
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 12:04 PM
Feb 2012

Of course, in the military mind, unshined boots are a worse offense than Haditha or My Lai.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
27. Because despite his defender's claims, what he did is a 'big deal.'
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 12:29 PM
Feb 2012

That he wasn't very competent at it is his own fault.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
28. Competent is what sense? Whistle blowing or getting caught whistle blowing?
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 03:08 PM
Feb 2012

Ellsberg got caught. So, was he incompetent?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
36. Manning has something more important than "competence."
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 05:59 PM
Feb 2012
Integrity.

It's not the 22 counts of whatever, it's the fact the "Apache tapes" demonstrate to the world how the United States government today regards innocent human life, let alone freedom of the press. That's as low as the NAZIs. And that's a truth that must be punished for telling.
 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
38. How much integrity do you think it took for him to hit a woman in the face?
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 11:00 PM
Feb 2012

When he cops a plea, I hope you remember his integrity.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
40. Oh yeah...having to be restrained after hitting a female superior is full of integrity.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 10:51 AM
Feb 2012

I don't know why you think that article you linked to helps his case.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
41. I'm not making a case. I support Manning over secret government.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:09 AM
Feb 2012

He exposed the Bush regime as war criminals. His treatment since his arrest exposed corruption in the current admistration, too.

Here's a link to where this is heading, prosecution of Julian Assange:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/dec2011/mann-d24.shtml

Freedom of the press is disappearing in favor of secret government, which is the point of my links and this thread. Clear now?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
45. Yes. They are laying the ground for other charges.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:13 PM
Feb 2012

There's been a grand jury sitting in VA for quite a while.

Capitalocracy

(4,307 posts)
25. Seriously, the reason we're classifying documents now is because it would "confuse us"?
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 12:08 PM
Feb 2012

How is this considered a legitimate reason to classify anything? Troop safety, public safety, diplomacy, these are supposed to be the only acceptable reasons to keep documents classified.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002266688

newspeak

(4,847 posts)
47. Yeah, why do we have the cia?
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 12:32 PM
Feb 2012

we have other security organizations and the FBI. I mean we've got the bay of pigs fiasco, the gulf of tonkin fabrication, and how many DEMOCRATICALLY elected leaders have been purged, because they didn't represent the elite's business interests? I'd say american, but it seems that the majority of americans actually get burned, also. Vietnam, Iraq, el salvador, death squads, iran-contra, bcci and the horrendous, inhumane mind control experiments using americans. We inadvertently help fund their sordid games and die in their games. Yet, it seems not to help the US or its' people; but aid corporate interest or the MIC.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
26. "The CIA undermining its own misinformation campaign would confuse everybody"
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 12:10 PM
Feb 2012

"If we tell the truth, people will be confused because of all the lying we did prior, and we can't have that!"

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
33. So we'd finally learn of the source for them Higgins boats?
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 04:09 PM
Feb 2012

Yup, that could be confusing to the official story line, indeed.

Uncle Joe

(58,558 posts)
37. Bullshit, the only thing "confusing the public" is not knowing or having to guess about history.
Sat Feb 4, 2012, 06:12 PM
Feb 2012

Thanks for the thread, Ichingcarpenter.

renie408

(9,854 posts)
43. I know this is serious and I am all outraged, too, but my first reaction was to laugh.
Sun Feb 5, 2012, 11:23 AM
Feb 2012

Right. The truth might confuse public now that they have been lying to us all this time. This is like something out of a Mel Brooks movie.

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