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malaise

(269,340 posts)
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 05:09 PM Feb 2012

They're teargassing the people so that the markets can win

Who cares if people starve as long as markets prevail

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/02/2012212114832570350.html
<snip>
Greek police have fired tear gas at thousands of protesters hurling stones and petrol bombs outside parliament in Athens, as lawmakers inside debated a bill packed with more unpopular austerity measures.

Al Jazeera's John Psaropoulos, reporting from Athens, said the protest on Sunday began peacefully but had rapidly descended into violence from both police and protesters.

"There is absolute mayhem in the square outside parliament. Thousands of [people] who started peacefully have not been budged by all the tear gas and stun grenades," he said.

By nightfall, an estimated 100,000 protesters were massed outside the building and at nearby Omonia Square, with some 6,000 police deployed and more protesters arriving. At least five building were in flames in downtown Athens, including a bank, mobile phone shop, glassware store and a cafeteria.

Al Jazeera's Barnaby Phillips, who arrived in Athens as the violence was escalating, described the atmosphere as "surreal".

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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They're teargassing the people so that the markets can win (Original Post) malaise Feb 2012 OP
Our media is a disgrace. annabanana Feb 2012 #1
I don't even call it media anymore. It's just a bullshit propaganda machine. It's RKP5637 Feb 2012 #7
Soon coming to a country near you. n/t MadHound Feb 2012 #2
p.s. This needs to be kicked through for the cube rats....n/t annabanana Feb 2012 #3
The BBC has decent coverage of the riot Warpy Feb 2012 #4
It's getting here like in the Iron Curtain days. One has to go to the RKP5637 Feb 2012 #12
du rec. nt xchrom Feb 2012 #5
Yes, molotov cocktails are a perfectly reasonable form of protest. TheWraith Feb 2012 #6
When someone is trying to destroy you, you don't react with witty slogans Scootaloo Feb 2012 #14
When peaceful protest is denied and people feel hopeless CanonRay Feb 2012 #19
Let's cut your wages in half and see if you still agree with that statement. backscatter712 Feb 2012 #20
Exactly. Burn the shit down. Anarchy and ruin is better than the alternative... Zalatix Feb 2012 #22
The guilloitine would be more reasonable at this point. girl gone mad Feb 2012 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author Hissyspit Feb 2012 #41
Solidarity with KKE and the people of Greece. nt TBF Feb 2012 #8
K&R !!! n/t RKP5637 Feb 2012 #9
CNN International TV reporting things are calming a bit. Vote in 30 mins. DCBob Feb 2012 #10
vote passed - haven't seen the numbers yet, that will be interesting. Protest has again intensified BelgianMadCow Feb 2012 #24
Nooo... They are teargassing people because they are setting shit on fire. Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2012 #11
With agents provacateurs used so routinely, how do we know who set the fires? snot Feb 2012 #13
anarchists don't need much provocation Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2012 #21
Let's both agree not to project 'til facts emerge as to who actually set the fires, snot Feb 2012 #29
It's not so the markets can win -- that would be better than the reality. It's so the 1% snot Feb 2012 #15
Bullshit. They're teargassing the people because someone started throwing... TreasonousBastard Feb 2012 #16
I agree. The greeks lied about what their debt was to get the euro, then borrowed applegrove Feb 2012 #27
Not true. girl gone mad Feb 2012 #32
Why are you so willing to let the lenders off the hook? Germany and France coalition_unwilling Feb 2012 #33
You're pushing neoliberal propaganda (and xenophobia). girl gone mad Feb 2012 #36
Drachman is coming... nradisic Feb 2012 #17
"... five building were in flames in downtown Athens, including a bank ..." Scuba Feb 2012 #18
note: the voilence is not a couple of agents provocateurs BelgianMadCow Feb 2012 #23
Burn it all to the fucking ground. Leave nothing for the banksters. Hotler Feb 2012 #25
I hate the bankers but I'm not burning a single building malaise Feb 2012 #26
As John Lennon sang Art_from_Ark Feb 2012 #34
Indeed malaise Feb 2012 #38
Don't burn buildings, expropriate them and expel their coalition_unwilling Feb 2012 #35
That is the correct approach malaise Feb 2012 #37
+1000!!! FirstLight Feb 2012 #28
Here's some great coverage from Aljezeera Matariki Feb 2012 #31
Thanks for the pics malaise Feb 2012 #39
They've been dragging this out jeanpalmer Feb 2012 #40

annabanana

(52,791 posts)
1. Our media is a disgrace.
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 05:12 PM
Feb 2012

This is our future if the banksters continue the total control of our major streams of information.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
7. I don't even call it media anymore. It's just a bullshit propaganda machine. It's
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 05:30 PM
Feb 2012

just endless dribble. It's so bad I got rid of cable TV. I use a HDTV antenna and get 25 local channels with far better quality than cable, and use ROKU for Internet TV, far far better.

Warpy

(111,475 posts)
4. The BBC has decent coverage of the riot
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 05:16 PM
Feb 2012

although it's skirting around the underlying issue: balancing a budget that was destroyed by the grasping rich on the backs of impoverished people who can't afford it.

And this is what's going to happen here if another Republican gets into office.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17003432 The video is great.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
12. It's getting here like in the Iron Curtain days. One has to go to the
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 05:34 PM
Feb 2012

outside world to find out what's going on.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
14. When someone is trying to destroy you, you don't react with witty slogans
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 05:39 PM
Feb 2012

And that is exactly what "austerity measures" are, Wraith - they're an effort to destroy an entire segment of the society, those judged "undesirable" - the poor and middle classes. You've heard of ethnic cleansing? Think of this shit as "Economic cleansing" and you'll be pretty much spot-on.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
20. Let's cut your wages in half and see if you still agree with that statement.
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 08:22 PM
Feb 2012

If it were me, I'd be up to anything including total fucking war to take back what the rich subhumans stole from the 99%.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
22. Exactly. Burn the shit down. Anarchy and ruin is better than the alternative...
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 08:31 PM
Feb 2012

...which is total serfdom, at best, and extermination of the poor, more likely.

girl gone mad

(20,634 posts)
30. The guilloitine would be more reasonable at this point.
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 04:54 AM
Feb 2012

People are fighting for their sovereignty and their future survival. If the Greeks don't stand up to this neoliberal assault on democracy, who will?

Response to TheWraith (Reply #6)

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
24. vote passed - haven't seen the numbers yet, that will be interesting. Protest has again intensified
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 08:45 PM
Feb 2012

after the vote.

It's "anarchy" versus an autocratic state.

The ordinary people have been austeritized into recession and poverty for years and have been out in force peacefully forever. Seems like many have had it.

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
21. anarchists don't need much provocation
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 08:27 PM
Feb 2012

I love how people around here love to project a cause on any bunch of idiots laying waste to the community.

snot

(10,549 posts)
29. Let's both agree not to project 'til facts emerge as to who actually set the fires,
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 02:05 AM
Feb 2012

since none of us know at this point.

snot

(10,549 posts)
15. It's not so the markets can win -- that would be better than the reality. It's so the 1%
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 05:40 PM
Feb 2012

don't have to pay higher taxes.

At least if it were the markets, some retirees might benefit.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
16. Bullshit. They're teargassing the people because someone started throwing...
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 06:09 PM
Feb 2012

molotov cocktails.

Cry over the poor Greeks all you want, but know something about them first. It's a country about the size of Alabama with a GDP equivalent about twice the size of Alabama's but the per capita income and GDP is less than Alabama's. 78% of what there is of their economy is tourism, shipping, and government, and they import over twice what little they export. And what they export is mainly bauxite, cement, and some olives. Maybe a few shoes, too. And, apparently, diners in New Jersey.

Let me repeat something-- a whole country, full member of the EU, with economic activity just barely twice of what our poorest state has. With a huge wealth divide. Not nearly as bad as Haiti, but heading in that direction.

So, how did they become a contender for the poorest country in Western Europe? You can point at that 1% who just didn't give a shit about their country and made all their money in the shipping business never paying a nickel in taxes, and you can blame a government that was happy to just pay off the citizenry with noshow jobs and easy pensions instead of trying to build a real economy. You can also point a finger or two at the population itself, which was happy to let things go on that way forever until the checks started to bounce and the free rides stopped.

Now the Germans and the French, after stopping a thousand years of warfare, are finding their reward for running their countries honestly and becoming BFFs is to pay the Greeks' bills. And boy are they pissed.

But, hey, it's all the banks' fault. Why not?



applegrove

(118,942 posts)
27. I agree. The greeks lied about what their debt was to get the euro, then borrowed
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 10:50 PM
Feb 2012

against it (and the intrinsic value countries like Germany and France bestowed up the euro) to pay for cushy government jobs for people. This was not a subprime mortgage situation. The liars were the greek people.

girl gone mad

(20,634 posts)
32. Not true.
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 05:18 AM
Feb 2012

A couple of Greek politicians conspired with Goldman Sachs to purchase currency swaps to reduce the apparent debt level, but a subsequent audit showed Greece had clearly met the qualifications for entry into the EMU.

The major problem for Greece is that they adopted the Euro at a punishingly uncompetitive exchange rate (arranged to favor their powerful trade partner Germany) and were thus forced to borrow in a non-sovereign currency simply to maintain their basic standard of living. Greeks work harder than most Europeans and receive fewer benefits.

It's absurd to blame this manufactured crisis on the Greek workers or to imagine they should be forced to suffer and endure a severe economic depression and unnecessary hardship as punishment for the failed Eurozone project their leaders embarked upon. How far American liberalism has fallen. FDR must be rolling over in his grave.

 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
33. Why are you so willing to let the lenders off the hook? Germany and France
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 05:30 AM
Feb 2012

were only too happy to lend to Greece because Greece used the proceeds of those loans to buy German and French products.

I grew up with the idea that lenders 'lend at their own risk'. This austerity bullshit is a way to keep the 1% whole on the backs of the poor and working classes.

girl gone mad

(20,634 posts)
36. You're pushing neoliberal propaganda (and xenophobia).
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 05:39 AM
Feb 2012

Tax avoidance by the wealthy and by corporations is a serious problem in Germany, the UK, and, of course, in the United States. Our corporations and our .01% probably put the Greeks to shame when it comes to using tax loopholes and shelters and any other means of not paying their fair share.

Your rhetoric on "noshow jobs" and "easy pensions" could have come straight from Grover Norquist or any other anti-government/anti-worker right winger in America.

Greece could increase its export market and reduce imports if it could manage its exchange rate. Greece could also pay its workers a fair salary without being forced to borrow if it had a central bank. These are the essential things a country gives up when it trades away its currency sovereignty.

In all seriousness, no American should be lecturing Greece on trade deficits and government debt, or tax avoidance by the rich or dependence on foreign borrowing, etc.

nradisic

(1,362 posts)
17. Drachman is coming...
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 06:17 PM
Feb 2012

The Greek people are showing us exactly what they think about austerity & Greece staying in the EU....Not!

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
18. "... five building were in flames in downtown Athens, including a bank ..."
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 07:20 PM
Feb 2012

At least they got that part right.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
23. note: the voilence is not a couple of agents provocateurs
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 08:40 PM
Feb 2012

you can tell by the scale, but also the fact that thousands of people are standing firm in the midst of teargas and stun grenades on a sunday evening.

And, our M$M has "thousands of anarchists" involved in the violent protest. Targets are also international chains and banks, among others.

thousands, thats not agents provocateurs, and neither are they anarchists imho - that a LOT of MAD people.

Hotler

(11,485 posts)
25. Burn it all to the fucking ground. Leave nothing for the banksters.
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 09:38 PM
Feb 2012

I wish we had the guts to do that here. Nothing in this country is going to change until thousands get really pissed at the PTB. Power to the people. Fuck the bankers.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
34. As John Lennon sang
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 05:31 AM
Feb 2012

"...But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can COUNT ME OUT!"

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
31. Here's some great coverage from Aljezeera
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 05:15 AM
Feb 2012
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/02/201221221456127197.html


In the midst of the chaos, a Starbucks coffee shop went up in flames in central Athens while parliamentarians debated austerity cuts.


Greek Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos addressed lawmakers in the Greek parliament while massive protests and clashes were going on outside.


Numerous buildings were burned during the clashes in central Athens on Sunday.

jeanpalmer

(1,625 posts)
40. They've been dragging this out
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 08:15 AM
Feb 2012

for over a year to acclimate the people's thinking to the proposed austerity program. They were hoping the repetition would wear down public resistance. Plus the banker countries were trying to use Greece to impress on the other PIIGS what could happen to them if they didn't cave in to similar austerity programs. So far looks like the intended strategy might not be working as hoped for. We'll have to wait for a week or so to see if the opposition peters out or grows. Either way, Greece goes down.

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