and still be viable? Only zygotes.

There are so many ways these bills can be eviscerated. I hope my generation sees the end of this fight, but I suppose that would mean the theocratic forces of darkness would have to be put back in the vault.

Philosophically there is NO difference. There is NO logical way there can be a difference. If they define personhood as being at conception from a metaphysical and logical point of view it is impossible for there to be a difference "by definition". They are defining the "essence" of a person as being at conception. Essence by definition is something that make it what it is. Like the essence of a tree is "treeness". All the things that make a tree a tree is recognizable universally in human experience.

They are also arguing the rule of "potentiality". A seed has the potential to be a plant. They are saying that that seed IS A PLANT. That potentiality makes it essentially a plant because it will become a plant if it is planted. They are saying that the embryo will become a person if it develops along its natural course. The embryo is a full person at conception. The rule of potentiality makes it a human being by that argument also.

So they are full of S. They cannot make an argument where they can have it both ways. Every egg must be implanted and if it is a person by their definition. It is murder if it is discarded or destroyed by their definition of personhood is. Artificial fertilization is conception as is natural conception because that is fertilization as well. They cannot have it both ways.

Just smack the bastards down.

Those with a desire-based belief system have nothing to do with reason or logic. They will not 'debate' the issue at all. Your points are based in solid reason, so they must, will, and always do abandon reason for the sake of their belief. It is why they will create strawmen, level accusations, and even resort to physical intimidation or violence. 'Reason' is their enemy.

This will likely be struck down in court for any number of reasons. Perhaps even for the glaring contradiction you've pointed out. But don't for a moment even dream that the zealots will understand why it has been defeated, much less learn from the process.

follow the money. IVF business is very lucrative for doctors, hospitals, etc. Not so with abortion providers. So, being Republicans, their first duty (after keeping Obama from being elected) is to protect the income of the rich. Therefore, the exemption for IVF. This whole thing has never been about ideology -- It's about controlling the lives of women.

That's got to be unlawful imprisonment, at the very least.

Why I do not take the "pro-life" stance myself. Though I favor the choice of life, over abortion, personally and not even on religious grounds. The hypocracy in this proposed exemption.

Choice means choice.

I would be willing to bet that a very very high percentage of In Vitro is done by white people who are well to do, or financially comfortable. That means there are millions of fertilzed white snowflake-persons ready for implantation for willing white wombs! lol There is multi millions of dollars per year spent in this industry, and heaven forbid we dont want to offend high dollar people who want children.

The catholic church and other churches keep their mouths shut about this because many in their churches have this procedure. Remember bush's big deal about the Snowflakes born from adopting embryos?

I sent a email to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops asking them that if the embryos were persons, who would be prosecuted for child abuse or murder... the parents or the clinic doctors or both. I have not heard back from them. I think we should push this hypocrisy because they cant have it both ways. They cant ban all of these things yet keep In Vitro.

And adding this issue is one more thing that shows how insane they have become.
I am Howling mad about all of this. So are all of my friends.
tib

The Pope and the Church are against in vitro. Funny they arent speaking up about it during this assault on women. (I still argue that if it were poor people or people of color primarily doing In Vitro, then the church and christianists/republicans would be screeching about murder of persons!

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2009/01/vatican-statement-on-in-vitro.html

article from 2009. Read the comments too lol.
tib

I believe the first IVF in the US was performed at Eastern VA Medical School in Norfolk, and there are several big IVF centers in northern Virginia.

Exempts In Vitro Embryos from personhood. Imagine that!
tib

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/02/16/virginia-personhood-bill-includes-hypocritical-exemption-for-infertility-treatments/

They cant have it both ways

...then it ought not to be acceptable on the way in, either. Because God creates all human life, right? Isn't that the standard pro-life bullshit?

Pardon me while my head explodes.