behind this old information, having been spoken about in 2005 by George W Bush and some are still thinking it was just revealed, something is wrong here. It is like crying "Remember the Alamo" years after Texas was free from Mexico.

and to discredit those who are reminding people of all this old stuff that everybody already knew anyway

but I wonder what rock people have been living under for the last 11+ years if they're actually alarmed over it.

Just like Watergate and Iran Contra...

do expect some to develop from this. There is a definite, bordering on paranoia reaction - not from everyone. There is a lot of over-reacting.

The republicans made the spying what it is today.

The people protecting the republicans from owning this are enemies of free people everywhere.

I take it, you, Happy, are calling such intelligence to be a CT?

If even 75% of what some are claiming were true, I'd probably join in the outrage chorus.

and every byte transmitted over your DSL connection?

Something between it's a problem but not that big a deal and it is a huge deal.

The truth is it is a big problem with a lot of moving parts - how much information is being collected, how deeply are the burrowing into that information, what are they using the information for, what oversight is there on how that information is being collected and used, and so on.

Bryant

Even a really nosy NSA worker is unlikely to spend much time going through repetitive, humdrum, personal phone calls or e-mails BECAUSE THERE IS NO INCENTIVE OR REWARD FOR WASTING TIME LIKE THAT--especially if properly supervised. It would get old pretty fast. Many NSA employees would probably find generalized "spying on Americans" revolting because they wouldn't want it done to them.

A legitimate concern is using someone's private phone or e-mail data against them as leverage for political or other reasons. I'm not aware of anybody claiming to be a victim of that yet.

My own concern is the possibility of the unscrupulous party of Nixon someday gaining sufficient operational control and trying to use NSA information to their political advantage, or finding a way to profit from it by selling it or something.

I don't know what to make of Russ Tice's allegations. He certainly seems credible - but if what he is saying is correct - my goodness

is that Mr. Tice was likely a satellite technician at NSA who did not really know how intelligence gathered was being used or not used. So he doesn't have much more insight than anybody else.

For now I guess I'll continue to wait for somebody to legally claim they're somehow a victim of NSA "spying on Americans" and see how that turns out.

The NSA began under Truman. FISA began under Carter. The Patriot Act was championed by W.

To lay the entire sum total of the blame for this at the feet of Obama, and nowhere else - and then go on to echo Greenwald & insinuate that Obama is looking to assassinate Snowden, or rendition him to some black budget overseas torture site - AS SOME ON DU HAVE DONE - is simply fucking Tea Bagger level insanity.