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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGeorge Lakoff on Communication: "Liberals Do Everything Wrong"
http://www.alternet.org/culture/george-lakoff-communication-liberals-do-everything-wrong"The progressive mindset is screwing up the world. The progressive mindset is guaranteeing no progress on global warming. The progressive mindset is saying, 'Yes, fracking is fine.' The progressive mindset is saying, 'Yes, genetically modified organisms are OK', when, in fact, they're horrible, and the progressive mindset doesn't know how to describe how horrible they are. There's a difference between progressive morality, which is great, and the progressive mindset, which is half OK and half awful."
George Lakoff, professor of cognitive science at the University of California, Berkeley, has been working on moral frames for 50 years. In Communicating Our American Values and Vision, he gives this precis: "Framing is not primarily about politics or political messaging or communication. It is far more fundamental than that: frames are the mental structures that allow human beings to understand reality and sometimes to create what we take to be reality. But frames do have an enormous bearing on politics they structure our ideas and concepts, they shape the way we reason For the most part, our use of frames is unconscious and automatic."
Lakoff is affable and generous. In public meetings he greets every question with: "That is an extremely good question." But he cannot keep the frustration out of his voice: the left, he argues, is losing the political argument every year, it cedes more ground to the right, under the mistaken impression that this will bring everything closer to the centre. In fact, there is no centre: the more progressives capitulate, the more boldly the conservatives express their vision, and the further to the right the mainstream moves. The reason is that conservatives speak from an authentic moral position, and appeal to voters' values. Liberals try to argue against them using evidence; they are embarrassed by emotionality. They think that if you can just demonstrate to voters how their self-interest is served by a socially egalitarian position, that will work, and everyone will vote for them and the debate will be over. In fact, Lakoff asserts, voters don't vote for bald self-interest; self-interest fails to ignite, it inspires nothing progressives, of all people, ought to understand this.
When he talks about the collapse of the left, he clearly doesn't mean that those parties have disintegrated: they could be in government, as the Democrats are in the US. But their vision of progressive politics is compromised and weak. So in the UK there have been racist "Go home" vans and there is an immigration bill going through parliament, unopposed, that mandates doctors, the DVLA, banks and landlords to interrogate the immigration status of us all; Hungary has vigilante groups attacking Roma, and its government recently tried to criminalise homelessness; the leaders of the Golden Dawn in Greece have only just been arrested, having been flirting with fascism since the collapse of the eurozone. We see, time and again, people in need being dehumanised, in a way that seems like a throwback to 60 or 70 years ago. Nobody could say the left was winning.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Exactly.
Which is why pragmatic moderate centrists are so lacking in ability to motivate people. There's no there there.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)RadiationTherapy
(5,818 posts)liberals. So be it, but they are very important topics to study.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)all the left needs is some good advertising campaigns. There is a lot of information to show marketing is extremely effective at getting people to change/make up their mind about a topic. The right knows this. The left thinks people are too smart to fall for that stuff.
They aren't.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...when polled on an Issue by Issue basis.
The problem is with our conservative Leadership failure to even try and market (frame) these issues for the Public.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)we need to find some way to make them realize they agree with the issues. They don't even know it. I've told this story before: during the 2008 primaries I was on a non-political message board but sometimes politics was discussed. Someone posted a quiz from a reputable source that said something like, "find out which presidential primary candidate most agrees with you on the issues". A bunch of hard core FAR right republicans then posted shit like, "hey, does anybody know who Dennis Kucinich is? That's who I got." It was pretty funny when we explained who DK was. MOST people on the site ended up with DK. The funniest was this one super religious fox-brainwashed republican who got Hilary. Omg, was she pissed. "this quiz is stupid" Pretty much NO ONE ended up with an actual Republican.
So yeah, most people agree on the issues - but they don't KNOW it. It's up to the Democrats to let them know who they REALLY agree with and why. This needs marketing.
Yes, the right frames everything because they use marketing to do it. They are marketing experts. It's time for the left to deploy some marketing experts of our own. Marketing helped the NDP (a 'socialist' party) here in Canada become official opposition. The ads were phenomenal. And they convinced a lot of people with those ads. It can be done quite easily - the Dems just want to have to do it, and that's another conversation for another day.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 2, 2014, 10:45 AM - Edit history (1)
is that Big Money continues to successfully buy pre-selected Democrats that they run in primaries and fund with astronomical amounts of money compared to any candidate that might actually allow for the pendulum to BEGIN to shift back to the left.
We here at DU are very effective at stating facts in clear, passionate ways that WOULD resonate with a majority of Americans. It is "our" elected Democratic officials who enjoy being bi-partisan and propping up a thoroughly corrupt Republican Party instead of fighting for the values they supposedly want to implement that effectively prevent the masses of people from seeing things clearly.
Then, some of us cry out that someone needs to TELL them up in D.C. how to frame issues because they're just so bad at it.
Or, "If only someone would tell Democrats how to negotiate effectively!!!"
No, we will need to change the way we elect "our" congress critters before we can prevent the corruption that's currently going on within Washington (including the Democratic Party).
Big Money will continue to try and put highly charismatic individuals into Democratic slots. Their charm will have to be incredibly high in order to get (some/most?) people to think that he/she really doesn't want to implement the neo-liberal, right-wing policies that they inevitably implement.
We need to take their ability to legally finance aka BRIBE politicians away or else it's going to get very, very, very ugly in this country.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)The problem is that they are only pretending to represent us.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)yeah
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)in both of those places.
It's not that I think you are 100% wrong. I think in fact you are partially correct, but so is Lakoff. It's not just a matter of saying here is the evidence of why we are right to undecideds and folks on the right. That will not work as Lakoff points out.
I'm not sure that Lakoff's prescription for how to alter progressive arguments is correct, only that some alteration is needed.
senseandsensibility
(17,204 posts)with the part. It is no accident that our politicians frame things badly. I don't agree with this gentleman that they are doing so because they are trying to show voters where their self interest lies. If they were, it WOULD be effective with many voters. But they would have to do so boldly, simply, and clearly. They don't effectively show voters where their self interest lies because they don't want to. To me, it's obvious why they don't want to.
treestar
(82,383 posts)This whole line of thought is about how to manipulate people. How to get them to vote without thinking. It's insulting to every human being. People know when they are being manipulated.
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)That is why we cut welfare and social services as the need grows, that is how we are convinced to destroy our habitat with the lure of a hand full of jobs, that is how support for bogus war efforts is built, that is how poor and working class folks get behind "right to work" laws, that is how virtually every product is sold.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's persuasion. Advertising. You're a big fan of president Obama, yes? well, that came from somewhere; he convinced you to become such a fan. That is, you were manipulated. it just happens to be that you don't mind the manipulation, just like yo don't mind when an advertisement convinces you to go buy something you enjoy.
I've been over this before. Liberals are bad at framing and worse at propagandizing. i think perhaps most of us just don't understand the concept of framing (I've seen good exceptions, mind, but in general.) However, there's a knee-jerk opposition to the very word "propaganda." In most liberal minds the word is linked with two other words - "lies" and "jingoism." But that's not the case. propaganda is just advertising, making a case for why someone else should believe what you believe.
Words are weapons and language is an armory. Here, let me give you example from the drug war ("drug war" is itself an example, actually, but...)
Crack cocaine.
Crack is a sharp, harsh word. It's guttural, the combination of velar and uvular consonants - KRK - making the word sound like you're coughing something gross out of the back of your throat. For something to be cracked, is for it to be broken, disjointed, fractured, fragmented, defaced, ruined. We also have the much less common "freebase" which sounds very similar to "debase" - to lower or ruin or corrupt.
Crack cocaine is popularly seen as "the worst drug." Cocaine addicts who smoke the drug are called "crackheads" - and this term is used as an insult in general, even against those who do not use the drug. Those who snort powder cocaine aren't really called anything - there is cokehead, but the term is uncommon and is never used in improper context... and while crackhead conjures images of a dirty smelly person scratching their arms and begging to suck a dick for a hit, a cokehead is just someone who's a little twitchy.
What if we called it crystal cocaine instead? It's etymologically accurate, as crack is just a resinous crystal form of cocaine. Well, Crystal has an entirely different sound than crack. it's softer, more sibilant, with light vowels. it's also a popular girl's name, and has meanings f purity, clarity, delicacy, and fineness. Now we have crystal meth as a drug... And medically speaking, it's probably more damaging. But... There's a popular band called The Crystal method. One of the most popular TV shows in recent years has revolved around the production of crystal meth. I for one don't imagine Walter White would be nearly as popular a character if he were cooking crack. Even if we take away the "crystal" part here, we're left with "meth" - a soft, aspirated word. I almost sounds minty (associative linking to fresh, menthol, breath.) The whole word - methamphetamine - sounds science-y because, well, it is. it sounds medical because well, it is. But that also makes it sound somewhat respectable.
End result? crack cocaine is seen as far worse than crystal meth, and VASTLY worse than "regular" cocaine... despite crack really being no worse than powder form and meth actually being more harmful than either. The word CRACK is the key to this.
================================================
So yes, it's about manipulation. Manipulating language to manipulate people. Using word choice, arrangement, sound and delivery to instill emotion and ideas in the audience.
Chiquitita
(752 posts)This is what he believes it would take to refashion the progressive mindset: the abandonment of argument by evidence in favour of argument by moral cause; the unswerving and unembarrassed articulation of what those morals are; the acceptance that there is no "middle" or third way, no such thing as a moderate (people can hold divergent views, conservative on some things, progressive on others but they are not moderates, they are "biconceptual" ; and the understanding that conservatives are not evil, unintelligent, cynical or grasping. Rather, they act according to the moral case as they see it. If they happen to get rich, and make their friends rich in the process, that is just the unbidden consequence of wealth being the natural reward of the righteous, in their moral universe. To accept, let alone undertake, any of this, one would first need to accept the veracity of frames.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)his solution. I certainly do not want to take to the airwaves with a non fact based approach. I can't get past the idea that using the emotional/moral rhetoric that he espouses is somehow wrong. Perhaps because it's the mirror image of what I see Republicans using and I don't like it when they do it.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)Have your facts at hand to back up the emotions of your empathy. That's NOT the same thing as the RW does, making an emotional appeal WITHOUT the facts to back up that appeal.
I'm writing an article for the Worker's Power web site now about the budget deal and I've got the facts. I'm now processing the emotions involved in kicking the long term unemployed off the rolls and cutting SNAP AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME! That pisses me off emotionally and I've got the facts to back it up. I expect the article to come out with the facts laying out the problem and then an emotional and agitational appeal as to why it's just fucking WRONG!
WhiteTara
(29,731 posts)to rant is one thing; but to give a possible solution is better.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)WhiteTara
(29,731 posts)persuasive!
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)on the consciousness of the reader. But thanks!
www.workerspower.net. Check it out for yourself.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)On behalf of the National Council on Disability (NCD), an independent federal agency that advises Congress and the Administration regarding laws, policies, practices, and procedures that affect people with disabilities, I write in response to the 2014 State of the Union address and a subsequent White House call with community advocates regarding the impending Executive Order to raise the minimum wage for employees of federal contractors. NCD applauds your commitment to reducing income inequality, and urges the steadfast inclusion of Americans with disabilities in these efforts.
We like what you are doing here
This is an old law and things have changed.
The modern construct of equality is in line with your values.
We have a solution...
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr831/text
NCD looks forward to working with the Administration to ensure that all Americans, including people with disabilities, have the tools necessary to lift themselves out of poverty, including a fair and equitable wage. If we can be of service as you consider the language of your Executive Order or on related issues, please do not hesitate to call on us.
We agree with you and assume that you are ready to work with us.
There is a radical way to use that strategy as well.
http://www.loc.gov/resource/mnwp.160002/
2banon
(7,321 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Obama is thought of as a cool customer who is coldly rational to a fault.
But the times when he has been most effective in ginning up support for himself or a policy is when he actually gets involved in something he obviously feels in his gut and appeals to the emotions.
Clinton, on the other hand, is seen as more of a good ol' boy bubba charmer, even though he is actually smarter than anyone else in the room. People respond to the emotional resonance of his charm and his apparent passion for his professed values. "I'll fight for you until the last dog dies."
Setting aside the contradictions with their actual behavior (and sometimes the content) both of them have been the best salesmen for liberal/progressive policies and values in contemporary history. Why? Because people respond emotionally to their arguments -- not because they are rational and pragmatic.
Even though they have been responsible for the opposite effect due to their centrist policies, there's a lot to be learned (IMO) from their ability to take liberal/progressive values and make them seem human and morally right.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)"take liberal/progressive values and make them seem human and morally right"
"No one who works a full time job should live in poverty" Is impossible to argue against.
When Obama said that, even Boehner clapped.
Instead of technical information, call them out. When he says "less regulation, lower taxes, etc." "Trickle down" How long will that take? Why should people have to wait? AND, don't forget to point out that these are your friends and neighbors.
I really think that making a broad brush assuming that every republican voter is heartless because they don't respond to facts is a mistake. In 2005, MO made very deep medicaid cuts in optional services. The cuts included oxygen provided outside of a hospital\nursing home. Talking about the expense is useful, but most people know someone or at least have some awareness of what not having portable oxygen would mean.
There was mass outrage, even from republicans AND some religious groups. Matt Blunt didn't even run for a second term.
.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)chattering about Sanctity of marriage and God in his mix, but by people being shown that to oppose equality what they have to endorse is cruelty to actual individual people.
I'd offer that the recent rather amazing reversals on cannabis attitudes hinge greatly on people being shown that to oppose this medicine is to favor kids having seizures or taking hard core debilitating drugs. That coupled with the fact that over the years, almost everyone has known a chemo patient whose suffering was eased. Few are willing to be the person taking the meds from the dying and from children.
The current folks posing as 'centrists' do not engage in fact based arguments, nor in moral arguments because they have no facts and their morals are situational. They are unable to take a strong stand because they are too busy looking for their mark, the spot that is 'the middle' where they are no more liberal than they are right wing. That spot is a fiction.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)from which DLC ideas spring it's that they mix social liberalism with the hardest economic conservatism
we certainly need to dissect the ideas floating around the public sphere and where they came ffom: a lot of them are in fact manufactured outright by think tanks; others are just seen as givens (for example, the phrase "women, gays, union workers, Muslims, etc., are people too and don't need to prove their right to separate existence" would seem axiomatic--but that's just to us)
the GOP is "kite"-shaped--four nuclei (fundies, militarists, right-libertarians, corporations) all interacting and with their own power base and even publishers; the Dems are more like Neapolitan ice cream, a set of interests (gay, green, female, nonwhite, labor, academic) that gets very hierarchical at the top
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... by examining past errors liberal candidates have made, and how they should have acted in those situations.
Should be required reading for every Democratic politician. One does not need to be a neurosurgeon or psychiatrist to understand the book.
Here's the notes for the book: http://www.westenstrategies.com/politicalbrainnotes
also..."The Republican Mind"....
truthfully?
Knowing how much is hard-wired is disturbing
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Our side has blown so many chances a cynical person might think we did it on purpose.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)our own hard-wiring makes us more susceptible to compromising and we don't often deal with absolutes...does our leadership try to pander to that characteristic? Does are hard-wiring make us believe that we MUST go to the middle?
polichick
(37,152 posts)They are serving their constituents - and that ain't us.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)The two Parties have virtally identical fiscal and foreign policies, differing only on a handful of civil rights issues, if that.
polichick
(37,152 posts)and as long as the people keep fighting each other, the ptb will keep stealing everything they can from this country.
But they also made sure there's no real news, only propaganda, which ensures that people keep fighting each other.
Hard to see the way out when most people don't even know how manipulated they've been.
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)have a difficult time trying to determine the solution. Sorry my friends but this is just a wee bit too heavy for me to figure out.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Until a viable alternative energy source is in place, we have what we have.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)I'm not being coy in saying this. I'm serious. George Lakoff, god love him (and I have: I was a Ph.D. candidate in theoretical linguistics way back in the 70s), needs a sort of "physician heal thyself" on this topic.
He's been saying we're framing things wrong for the last 15 years. And not only is no one listening--those who do listen don't even understand what he's saying, or at least how to translate what he's saying into practice. If you haven't got your message out or understood successfully after 15 years, maybe you need to think about reframing your message.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)I attended one and found them to be wonderfully academic but (because I am a street-level local elected official) I found them terribly irrelevant to what I needed to do or, what practical use they could be put to.
That's what I am getting out of this article now...
We need to translate our message/frame-of-reference to a practical purpose.
How?
I'm still thinking about that...and trying to mesh it with The Political Brain and The Republican Mind.
TheKentuckian
(25,035 posts)I think they do not wish to make more effective arguments for our values and goals and would rather largely ditch both for more corporate ca$h and what they feel are largely captured votes.
Gman
(24,780 posts)emotions don't convey diddly squat and only put the other person on defense. And you look stupid when although it is an issue of grave importance you're too tied up in your own emotions.
Somebody finally said it.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)maybe into it was acting emotionally rather than purposefully will not accomplish much.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)People are afraid to be themselves. To live as an individual and brave the elements and clamor for even basic dignities that would have sent our forefathers screaming into the night.
I can speak with someone in relaxed one on one situations and they speak on many issues as I would. Then you meet with them around other people and they devolve into mono-syllabic grunts of agreement with whomever the wealthiest in the room is.
Conditioned like an animal to respond salivating at the behest of a "Greed is good" system of our own making. They choose the feel good narrative over reality. Allowing them to nitpick at celebrity gossip and corporate picked scandals to placate feelings of disgust & helplessness.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)Most of them are part of the problem and only give lip service to liberal ideas.
lapfog_1
(29,243 posts)The problem is that we are smart and undisciplined.
Repukes are disciplined. When President Obama hinted before the SOTU that he was "prepared to go it alone"... the first thing out of EVERY repukes mouth was "King Obama" and "imperial presidency" and "illegal power grab".
They have disciplined the rank and file to parrot the talking point and simplify the argument to catch phrase. Never mind the actual facts behind the discussion... like the fact that Obama has issued fewer executive orders per year in office than any other modern President, never mind that Obama is issuing orders on the most innocuous of items... the repukes have conditioned the media and the population through the use of simplified catch phrase to brand Obama's actions as illegal and dangerous.
Progressives, usually better educated, smarter, want to have an intellectual discussion about the topic, to explore nuance and debate the ideas, to cite facts and such. Repukes just go for the base catch phrase, damn the facts.
And, should we ever even TRY to play by the Repukes "Luntz rule book" they immediately call us on it and we feel so chagrined that we apologize for the lack of footnotes and research... most recent example is MSNBC firing some poor patsy for telling the truth about the right's reaction to the multi-racial Cheerios commercial.
....and liberals are afraid to strategize, for some reason.
The daily conservative FAX blast to "opinion shapers" has really outdone us over the last twenty years.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)We, as a group, assume that liberalism is the obviously reasonable and enlightened view, so we can't imagine anyone having any reason (let alone a good reason) to "vote against their best interests."
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)"Does the fact that Republicans cut food stamps and unemployment benefits within weeks bother anyone else? Or should it just be a concern of the unemployed and hungry?
Is this something along the lines of what Lakoff is speaking?
ewagner
(18,964 posts)Conservatives have already done a pre-emptive strike on the subject however...
conservatives have "framed" the terms "unemployed" as lazy "takers"; bums; leeches on society...
and the "hungry" as dependents, welfare queens/frauds/moochers etc.
I think Lakoff wants us to preempt the pre-emption...
DinahMoeHum
(21,826 posts). . .and work on an actual campaign to help get Democrats and progressives elected to office. Test his own theories, doncha know?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)He's an academic, and he has used his skills to argue and try to advance a solution from that perspective. That's what he's good at.
We all have our own skills and abilities, as well as our limitations and weaknesses.
It's like when one poster on DU says to another whon criticizes a politician. "If you really believe that, why don't YOU run for office?!?"
Well, speaking for myself, I have my own skill-set and use those to advance my beliefs in the real world...But the best way to ensure that a Republican gets elected to a particular office would be to have me run as their opposition.
Most people are the same way. they do what they can in the ways that play to their own strenghts.
DinahMoeHum
(21,826 posts). . .but he doesn't have the balls to actually do it himself.
In the game of political strategy, the only real experts are the ones who actually manage campaigns. And Lakoff ain't no expert.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)bobduca
(1,763 posts)automatic defense is automatic!
bobduca
(1,763 posts)Anti-intellectualism is apparently not just for the right!
DinahMoeHum
(21,826 posts)When it comes real-life campaign management and candidates, I don't want somebody with a "comprehensive political analysis": I want street fighters; people who are not afraid to get in there and kick the GOoPers' and Teabaggers' balls to hamburger.
Enough said.
bobduca
(1,763 posts)ok, well I am not so binary minded... Non-applied political science has it's place, in academia.
This was the context for my comment about "anti-intellectualism"
Your demand that all academic political scientists join the fray and manage campaigns is ridiculous.
DinahMoeHum
(21,826 posts)1) they shouldn't act as if they're managing them unless they actually are managing a campaign.,
and
2) they shouldn't act like they're right and everybody else is wrong when it comes to managing campaigns.
Lakoff's know-it-all attitude turns me off, and my regard for him has considerably diminished ever since he wrote Don't Think of an Elephant. . .etc.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)From the article:
"the urgency of his speech ramps up as he talks about monetising nature. "What we get from nature is remarkable. And then you get the people who want to monetise that. If it's valuable, what's the value? What's it worth? Which is the wrong question to ask, because, first of all, much of its value has to do with what is visceral to you. What does it mean to you if you hear the birds singing, or the birds all die? Second, as soon as you monetise something in nature, a cost-benefit analysis will come in. Nature always loses, because nature goes on for ever."
It is, plainly, the longstanding failure to protect nature that powers Lakoff's exasperation with liberals.
"They don't understand their own moral system or the other guy's, they don't know what's at stake, they don't know about framing, they don't know about metaphors, they don't understand the extent to which emotion is rational, they don't understand how vital emotion is, they try to hide their emotion. They do everything wrong because they're miseducated. And they're proud of that miseducation. Oxford philosophy reigns supreme, right? Oxford philosophy is killing the world."
-------
In other words -- (my own)
We aren't willing to fight for the things we believe in for theor own sake.
We believe that nature and the environment should exist for theirn own sake because it sustains life on a fundamental level. And we appreciate it for what it is....That should not be taken away locked up and destroyed purely to feed the greed.
And guess what? A lot of right-wing grassroots types actually agree with that too. But we lose the opportunity to win people over by expressing those common moral beliefs.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)English is such a simple language in many ways, and a very complex one in others. The ways need to be reversed. Why is almost every word for a part of a computer something else. Don't we know how to create words for new things? How are we supposed to know if we should touch a mouse or trap a mouse, see out the window or see in the window? Why is a computer a "system unit" instead of a new word? Well, that's how language grows mindlessly, with metaphors easing the way. And it keeps language both simple (easy to learn to name new things) and makes it more complicated (difficult to discern what is meant).
Give the NSA something useful to do with all that data, police metaphor use! No new metaphors without a bill in Congress.
gulliver
(13,200 posts)The left is actually doing pretty well, and the trend is our friend. I don't think you can say that about the supposed "authentic moral position" of the Republicans. It's certainly true that they do have that. They are comfortable in their own skin. They know what they believe. But they are seriously, seriously lost. Their self-destructive anger tells you that.
The Obama-style left works exceptionally well, because it is wise. It's not perfect, but it is damned good. It's like the Stones when you want The Beatles or Beethoven.
To say that the Dem (party) "vision of progressive politics is compromised and weak" is just plain wrong. Accusing Dem politics of "ceding ground" to the right and so forth is just ridiculous and, really, just kind of dumb and immature. Talk about framing. This "ceding ground" framing is just too dumb to be useful. If we want to emulate Republican dumbness, that's how.
Do we attempt to base morality on melodrama? It won't work. It does a disservice to morality to oversimplify the processes behind it. It needs to be informed by both Dickens and Darwin. It needs to notice where the people are and where the handholds of power are. The rest is just cliche.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Very cynical about people. Will he instruct us how better to manipulate them?
How is the right "winning?" Over the long term, they are destined to lose.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)nt
treestar
(82,383 posts)They fight a rear guard battle. If they win over the long term, it would still be the 1950s. Or earlier. They are the ones who have to manipulate the gullible.
I am for better ways of educating the gullible, not trying to keep them that way so they are easier to manipulate.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Even when Democrats are in power. The discourse and the policies keep shifting rightwards.
Resistance to smart messaging is precisely the problem Lakeoff is talking about. And here's Exhibit A.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Strange argument.