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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGay man says priest refused to give last rites
A Roman Catholic priest working as a chaplain at D.C.s Washington Hospital Center refused to give last rites and communion to a heart attack patient earlier this month after the patient told him hes gay and believes Pope Francis is sympathetic to gay people, the patient told the Blade.
D.C. resident Ronald Plishka, 63, a retired travel agent and lifelong Catholic, said he asked a nurse to arrange for a priest to see him on Feb. 7, one day after he was admitted by ambulance to the hospital emergency room for a heart attack. He said that at the time he wasnt sure he would survive.
A short time later, Plishka said, Father Brian Coelho, a priest assigned to the hospitals Department of Spiritual Care, arrived at his bedside. He said Coelho offered to take his confession before proceeding with communion and last rites, which the church now calls the sacrament of anointing of the sick.
We started talking and I told him I was so happy with this new Pope because of his comments about the gays and his accepting the gays, Plishka said. And I mentioned that I was gay. I said it and then I asked him does that bother you? And he said, Oh, no, that does not bother me, said Plishka.
http://www.washingtonblade.com/2014/02/17/gay-man-says-priest-refused-give-last-rites/
gopiscrap
(23,766 posts)my dad was in Vietnam in the very early 60's and when the Gulf of Tonkin incident happened, he was stateside and we were with hi, He immediately told my mom they were lying. A few years later we settled in Tacoma, my dad went back to Vietnam and got killed. The priest at the local Catholic parish wouldn't do the funeral because he was against the war and other positions the priest stood for. We had to go to another parish to have his funeral.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)This is not right. A priest is supposed to give comfort and peace. He is not called upon to judge people.
He should especially show mercy to someone who is sick or dying.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Here is the thing, say for arguments sake that being gay is immoral or against what God believes. Well isn't greed and gluttony also. Yet I bet no priest would ever, in any way, refuse to give last rites to Bill Gates or Tiger Woods. <- not saying either one is catholic, just making a point. Everything I know about the bible, which is limited, makes it clear that greed and gluttony are their top sin behind non-belief itself. The whole anti-gay thing goes beyond religion. You would not read a story like this where a man was refused last rights because he spent $500,000 on a car. Yet according to just about all religious documents and understanding that should be the greater sin. The ant-gay stance by the Catholic Church is spread by man and is highly intentional.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Why would a gay man still cling to Catholic doctrine? If this pope has been less hateful, which I doubt, he is not more inclusive nor more forgiving of unrepentant homosexuals. This priest did what Catholic priests are instructed to do.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)He is not instructed to deny the Last Rites to anyone. I was raised Catholic, and there was nothing in the canon law that said you get to deny the Last Rites. That's what they're for.
Also, the current Pope has said, as regards gay people, in particular gay priests but by implication others as well, "Who am I to judge?"
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)God's plan' and a 'machination coming from the Father of Lies'. In the same sermon from which you excerpt 'who am I to judge' about celibates, he railed against the 'Gay Lobby' and any form of organization or sexual activity by gay people. What you are doing is very inappropriate today, as Uganda with it's large Catholic population passes barbaric anti gay laws while Pope Francis remains silent as he has during the entire build up to this law. His inaction is damning.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)What, saying that no one should be denied the Last Rites?
rurallib
(62,471 posts)a priest is to give the last rites when asked. It is not theirs to judge.
Or so I remember from the Baltimore Catechism days - If someone hadn't been to church for 50 years yet wanted last rites he was to get them.
(or as we knew it then "Extreme Unction" )
shenmue
(38,506 posts)hunter
(38,339 posts)Catholicism is a community, as much as "U.S. citizen" is a community.
One accepts what life hands you and works within that.
I've got more influence within these communities than without.
Ask yourself, why would anyone "cling to" U.S.A. doctrine?
We live in a world of suck and muddle through as best we are able.
rug
(82,333 posts)This is just abhorrent and not Christ-like at all, said Dignity Washington President Daniel Barutta. I cant imagine where that priest is coming from.
Henry Huot, a retired Catholic priest who serves as chair of Dignity Washingtons Pastoral Ministry Committee, said longstanding Catholic practice calls for priests to provide the sacraments to people in situations similar to Plishka.
Any baptized Christian ought not to be denied the sacraments at his or her request, Huot said. And that is a cardinal rule of pastoral care. So I dont know what was going through the mind of this hospital chaplain to deny this man the sacraments, he said. It violates this cardinal rule.
Is there any corroboration?
William769
(55,148 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)If it had been Last Unction, I think they get to bend the rules. But if it's just Anointing of the Sick:
http://catholicism.about.com/od/beliefsteachings/p/Sac_Anointing.htm
When it's not possible to confess (Sacrament of Penance), Anointing is supposed to accomplish the same thing, but it only works if the recipient is in a state of grace and has repented sins.
I think they are allowed to presume that if the patient is in extremis, but not in a case like this.
And Catholics are supposed to believe not only that Communion has to be taken in a state of grace, but that if you do take Communion when you are not in a state of grace, it may be a cause of damnation, which is why priests aren't supposed to give Communion if they know you are not in a state of grace.
So in theory according to Catholic doctrine, if this guy had been near his last breath and unable to speak, the priest could administer Last Unction and Viaticum, but otherwise he has to do it right to make it work at all.
Which is why the priest the man called after getting out of the hospital told him the chaplain was right.
rug
(82,333 posts)In case of grave illness...
1514 The Anointing of the Sick is not a sacrament for those only who are at the point of death. Hence, as soon as anyone of the faithful begins to be in danger of death from sickness or old age, the fitting time for him to receive this sacrament has certainly already arrived.
There's a further discussion of it in the following paragraphs of the Catechism.
The problem with this article is it lacks significant information. Being gay is not a sin and there's no reason to infer he was not "in a state of grace" anymore than if it were a divorced straight male lying in the bed. Priests don't ask to xray your soul before administering a sacrament. But if he did as reported it would be in response to homophobia not doctrine.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Only sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin. Including masturbation!!!
I've always wondered if you are supposed to confess wet dreams....
I'm not a Catholic but my husband is.
rug
(82,333 posts)My guess is not, because it's not fully intentional, right?
I always have the urge to ask, but so far I have suppressed it.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)1) Anointing of the Sick
2) Confession and Absolution
3) Eucharist
Anointing of the sick is just that. Anointing sick people.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)of an illness or as a "last rite."
And it was completely wrong for the priest to have denied the sacrament, if he in fact did so.
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)I am Roman Catholic and this is not the way such a situation would be handled.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Catholic Military Chaplains Can't Be Forced to Oversee Gay Funerals
A new set of rules for chaplains states that Roman Catholic military chaplains must not be forced to preside over any ceremonies in which the church must acknowledge a same-sex relationship, and that includes performing funeral services for LGBT service members where spouses of the same sex are acknowledged, Religion News Service reports.
Archbishop Timothy Broglio also said chaplains do not have to witness or bless a same-sex marriage or take part in marriage counseling sessions attended by gay couples....
badtoworse
(5,957 posts)The Church is not going to do that. That has nothing to do with the last rites.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Of course it had nothing to do with last rites. But if it's okay for priests to decline presiding over gay funerals, refuse communion to a lesbian at the funeral of her mother, turn away gay spouses from the hospital beds of their dying loved ones and numerous other, similar cases that have been cited over the past few years, why should you be so shocked that a gay man would be refused last rites? Last rites aside, on what moral grounds can any of this be defended? I really don't understand why you seem to be shocked by this report.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)came and insisted he had to redo them, as hers were not valid. She was pretty pissed off, LOL.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Since the Confession and absolution are part of them.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)done just fine in the eyes of god. if I weren't an atheist, I would agree with her. She was quite a character- fought and won to get them out of those bizarre habits a long time ago. she ran a group of almost twenty care giving facilities and hospitals, built quite a few of them. she said the priests were just awful always trying to keep the nuns as their servants. she was not having it.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)The Catechism and Canon Law are pretty specific on this. A nun has no authority under the Catholic Church to hear confessions and absolve sins. Catholicism differs from Protestantism in many ways. One is an Apostolic tradition back to Peter for all priests. Nuns are not priests, and cannot hear confessions. Thus she could not have administered the last rights.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I remember the nun telling my class my brother went to hell because he was a suicide. no one else agreed with her.
lots of odd little things they didn't agree with. just like workers for any other business, LOL.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Last Rites and Anointing of the Sick are MOST certainly NOT the same thing, although they could be administered at the same time. It is hard to take yet another Catholic bashing thread seriously when once again, they cannot even get the details of the faith correct.