We should note that these figures refer to all gun-fire related deaths -- not just homicides, but also suicides and accidental deaths. In 2011, about one-quarter of firearm-related deaths were homicides, according to FBI and CDC data. Using total firearm-related deaths makes the case against guns more dramatic than just using homicides alone.

Forgot this part, why?

Forgot that part too didn't ya

So minus suicide data there would be more killed by gunfire in wars. This would be a more honest comparison but the numbers stated are technically correct. I just find it interesting the OP included only one portion of the paragraph, not the other portion of the explanation that goes against the narrative.

They also increase homicide rates. And there are accidental deaths.

Not to mention non-fatal gunshot wounds, which don't even show up in these totals.

The harms from guns are multi-faceted.

consider suicides as "deaths" but rather an unfortunate result of mental health issues, and statistically irrelevant when totaling up US gun deaths. Suicide is a "legitimate" Second Amendment use of a gun similar to SYG and Castle Doctrine incidents, and every American has the absolute right to kill themselves.

Suicide is just another form of self-defense, only the perpetrator is ones self.

suicides should be legal?

Then the use of a firearm to do a legal activity.........

It's SYG against yourself. Besides, who in the hell would you prosecute in a successful gun suicide?

Here's a tidbit from a study that you and the NRA disagree with, but what in the hell does the Harvard School of Public Health know?

"Ecologic studies that compare states with high gun ownership levels to those with low gun ownership levels find that in the U.S., where there are more guns, there are more suicides. The higher suicide rates result from higher firearm suicides; the non-firearm suicide rate is about equal across states."

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/risk/

But hey, since suicide is legal and just a mental health issue anyway, why should we care? Right?

but most knowledgeable folks understand that suicides and homicides are two different problems requiring tow different solutions. Combining the numbers and treating them all as one problem just shows a lack of understanding of the actual problems.

mandating safe storage, reasonable waiting periods, comprehensive background checks, public service advertising campaigns, etc. would do nothing to decrease both homicides and suicides? Well then, let's just ignore the problem and maybe it will go away.

While we're at it, there's no point to further cancer research because there are so many different types of cancer, and they stem from many different causes. Yes, that is sarcasm, but we are talking about deaths (both homicide and suicide) from firearms, so there is a commonality to the "two different problems." Just focusing on mental health issues will help in the broad sense, but the suicide success rate of guns, combined with easy access for impulsive behavior needs to addressed from the standpoint of steps aimed at prevention.

The fact that suicide is legal (from a practical point-of-view) does not mean that there are not other victims such as family, friends, and society as a whole. We control other popular means of suicide such toxic drugs and poisons, so why not lethal weapons?

Some "solutions" are geared towards preventing suicides. Some "solutions" are geared toward preventing homicides. Some "solutions" are geared towards other goals. Some "solutions" even have some overlap in their goals.

It all works best when the proposed "solutions" are properly labeled as to the goal they are intended for.

As an aside, suicide is actually legal where you live?

legal anywhere. Who would be prosecuted after a successful suicide attempt? Assisted suicide is a different matter.

Suicide is the one crime you cannot be prosecuted for successfully completing it.

It may make the suicide more successful. Look at Japan, very high suicide rate and low gun availability. I have see charts that the suicide rate of developed countries is about the same around the world.

This is another reason why I describe the gungeon as a right-wing forum: consistently ignoring or denying scientific evidence because for political reasons. Global warming, evolution, guns.

There is plenty of evidence that gun access significantly increases suicide rates. A starting point, if you are interested:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/

Oh, wait, there is no such part. Because the WHO doesn't deny that. I'm sure it's fun to post random irrelevant links, though...

That'll fix the problem.

-- Mal

to mention the 140+ year wars/genocide the US waged on the American Indians?

That our longest war took place on our frontier. Vietnam, Afghanistan combined aren't even close.

Which is an idiotic notion.

(if any) was.

1968 wasn't the origin of "modern gun control". You just made that up.

Increasing mob violence led to gun control measures throughout early 20th century.

LBJ wisely said 1968 act didn't go far enough. He was correct.

You can still buy them if you have the money, pay $200 tax, and pass the background check.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=394479555

From his own words. No mention of gun control act as a frame of reference. But nice try.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics-july-dec12-shieldsgerson_12-21/

Gun control doesn't go far enough--that is for damn sure.

many riots of the era. I mean, that's what one BannerJournalist said about the 1968 Act. At the time.

Federal laws.

As for the "Jim (large, raucous black bird) laws" in the South, why you are quite right! Now, they are gone due to the Civil Rights Act of '64! But for the life of me, I can't understand why that big bird found a nest in more Northern reaches. For a time.

Why is that, Pretzel?

Let that number roll around in your head for a few minutes. That is more people than American deaths in WWII! Yearly!

A d there should be even more focus on getting addicted folks onto nicotine patches, cessation programs, and the like. Tobacco is yet another set of death merchants allowed to profit from a product contributing to so many chronic diseases and early deaths.

Oh, wait. It's already here: Almost half of cigarettes purchased in NYC are already smuggled in.

Um-um-um.

Quick! I think your strawman is on fire.

Let's roll around that number for a while.

Astonishing figure. Yes, I realize that there are accidental discharges due to impact, accident, mechanical failure and Dick Cheney. Of the lot, they are fairly few and far between I suspect.

But I take your point.

Think of the idea that FIFTY FIVE MILLION died in WW2 alone.

War is disgusting. People like McCain and Cheney who rush to war are even more disgusting.

And if they do succeed, I will ensure it regains life under a new heading. Gun lovers, your days are numbered.

When you regain the ground you have lost since 1994 is when I will pay attention to your dire warnings.

Do you ever look around and actually see and comphrend the social, political and legal reality you face in America? We are in the midst of a golden age in gun rights and you actually think you have any kind of momentum to turn back the clock? Delusional.

We are nearer to the tipping point than you admit. Our modern society does not need guns to operate smoothly. In fact, ubiquity of guns undercuts our peace and security in the U.S.

Looking forward to laughing in your face. Demographics are moving toward a dramatic reduction in types of allowable guns and ammunition.

Like I said, history shows time and time again that gun grabbers have a tenuous grasp on America political and social reality. Time will tell I guess but I would bet that if anyone is laughing it will be your grand children.

You have the intellectual depth of a 12 year old and yet you think you are going to ban guns? Amazing.

Is exactly the kind that leads others to easily see you undoubtedly get physically aroused when perusing gun websites for the latest in weaponry.

Same thing with average guys who drive giant trucks. Guns fill a need for respect for many society does not hold in high regard. The natural extension of that is most of the mass shooters are unbalanced guys who did not receive much respect and needed to show the world.

"This, then, is the test we must set for ourselves; not to march alone but to march in such a way that others will wish to join us." — Hubert Humphrey

"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." — Hubert Humphrey

Then again I was told if I am a HHH Democrat I should go to Free Republic...

Well I am proud to listen to HHH but don't think I would fit in at FR

There are those who say to you - we are rushing this issue of civil rights. I say we are 172 years late! To those who say, this civil rights program is an infringement on states' rights, I say this: the time has arrived in America for the Democratic Party to get out of the shadow of states' rights and walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights! - HHH at the 1948 Democratic convention

it's the gun humpers.

any of them mentioning penis in the posts

One ad from a gun manufacturer is all you have?

...and by the way, thanks for demonstrating the exact type of behavior and using the type of language the proves the thesis, you brilliant defenders of liberty. There's no fooling you, eh?

Post and run is their typical.

And understand they have different causes and solutions. No every one has a simplistic "gunz are evil" perspective on life.

Having guns in household dramatically raises chance of death whether by domestic violence, accident, or suicide.

Guns in the U.S. are a net loser.

that guns significantly increase suicide rates. Outside of gunnutistan, very few people are simple-minded enough to cling to slogans like "suicides don't count" or "guns don't kill people".

Suicide is a complex mental health issue. But tell me - what gun laws will prevent suicides short of outright bans?

Keeping in mind the demographics of suicide in America.

But, for example, if we were to adopt Canada's gun laws, gun deaths both from homicide and suicide would decline dramatically.

We have seen a dramatic increase in guns in America - can you show a corresponding increase in suicide deaths?

But on the off chance that you are, here's a starting point:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-ownership-and-use/

Bans and registration I suspect.

We could adopt Canada's laws, or UK's laws, or Australia's laws, or Germany's laws, etc.

You must have a very dim view of America if you really believe that every other developed nation is able to deal with this problem, but somehow we just have to accept all these needless deaths.

Suicide is a mental health issue. Mental health reform is the solution. Let's address root issue shall we?

Why not fix the person?

Pretending that it's only a mental health issue is silly and simplistic. Guns are a major part of the problem, and, ironically for NRAers insisting that "it's just a mental health issue", the reason we know this is due to peer reviewed research by mental health experts.

Gee, who should we listen to. Scientists who research mental health professionally, or internet gun nuts?

To show how grossly dangerous guns are. As if a bottle of aspirin or tall buildings won't do the job.

So, do the Japanese do it without guns? It can't be possible that their suicide rates are higher than ours.

As has been pointed out numerous times, there are study after study finding that gun access significantly increases suicide rates. I get that you don't believe in science very much, but among the reality-based community, suicide is very much a part of the damage to society from guns.

We are on the wrong side with this issue, and we are paying the price for prohibitionist indulgence. Maybe some should look in the mirror when declaring DU groups as "right wing."

Ah, science. That reminds me of that song, "She blinded me with Science."

Can you smell the chemicals?

Really, all those silly people in lab coats with their "statistics" and "studies". That's liberalism at it's worst! Real 'murkins just go with whatever feels right. And if that means more people getting shot, so be it!

who parade their credentials.

You see, our gun suicide rate is much higher, whereas their non-gun suicide rate is higher. Mind-boggling, I know.

Why not have a realistic and achievable solution? Not as fun as the culture wars I know.

Gunz are evil - we get it

Medical and mental health experts understand that gun availability significantly increases suicide rates. Only gun nuts are too simplistic to pretend that the two aren't connected.

PS I wonder if you'll ever summon the courage to actually read the mental health research about the connection between guns and suicide. I know it might be scary for you, scientific evidence that challenges your most cherished assumptions....

the Harvard School of Public Health:

"Ecologic studies that compare states with high gun ownership levels to those with low gun ownership levels find that in the U.S., where there are more guns, there are more suicides. The higher suicide rates result from higher firearm suicides; the non-firearm suicide rate is about equal across states."

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/risk/

The remainder of the article goes on to dispel other myths and misinformation and guns and suicide.