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RandySF

(59,643 posts)
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 05:23 AM Feb 2014

Jim Jones’ sinister grip on San Francisco

Privately, San Francisco political leaders expressed doubts about Jones and his strange church. One day a friend of Milk’s named Tory Hartmann dropped off some boxes of campaign brochures at Peoples Temple, so that Jones’s army could distribute them. Hartmann was immediately unnerved by the uptight, high-security atmosphere inside the temple, where sentries stood at attention outside each room, like the palace guards in the Wicked Witch’s castle. “This is a church?” Hartmann said to herself. Later, after she sped back to the Castro and told Milk about her bizarre experience, the naturally cheery politician turned deadly serious. “Make sure you’re always nice to the Peoples Temple,” he told her. “They’re weird and they’re dangerous, and you never want to be on their bad side.”

Cleve Jones, a young Milk aide, accompanied him to Peoples Temple for a couple of Sunday services. “Harvey told me, ‘Be careful, they tape everything.’ Everyone knew Jim Jones was creepy, everyone knew he was a megalomaniac. But everybody also saw this church full of black and white people — black people from the Fillmore who had been subjected to apartheid-like policies and seemed to finally be getting some respect.”

Members of Moscone’s staff were also beginning to hear troubling reports about Peoples Temple. One day mayoral aide Dick Sklar suggested to his family maid — an African-American woman who had followed the Sklars to San Francisco from Ohio — that she attend a Sunday service at Peoples Temple. “I didn’t know anything about it,” Sklar said, “but she was a churchgoing woman, and I thought she might like it. Afterward she came back and said it was the scariest place she’d ever been. They searched her, asked her questions. I had no idea.”

Moscone himself could not ignore how peculiar his political ally was. “I was at every meeting that Jim Jones ever attended with the mayor,” said Moscone press secretary Corey Busch. “I can tell you that after every one of those meetings, the reaction was, ‘This is one weird bird.’ He always wore the dark glasses. You couldn’t predict Jonestown, but he was definitely weird. In retrospect, maybe we should have seen that, but we didn’t.”


http://www.salon.com/2012/05/01/jim_jones_sinister_grip_on_san_francisco/

29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Jim Jones’ sinister grip on San Francisco (Original Post) RandySF Feb 2014 OP
Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Feb 2014 #1
It was a weird time for the left Recursion Feb 2014 #2
A weird time for the left? merrily Feb 2014 #3
Yes, the left. The side of the spectrum Jones sided with (nt) Recursion Feb 2014 #4
He was extremely clever loyalsister Feb 2014 #7
It was simple. RandySF Feb 2014 #10
I'm not saying Jones had any particular ideology Recursion Feb 2014 #11
He was an egomanical, incesting, pedophiliac madman. merrily Feb 2014 #13
It is odd that a Democrat would ignore history. former9thward Feb 2014 #18
I am not runninng from anything. The OP describes scary things that Jones merrily Feb 2014 #19
The fact is that the 'left' embraced Jones in that time period. former9thward Feb 2014 #21
No, a few San Fransisco Democratic politicians were taken in by Jones. merrily Feb 2014 #22
A few??? former9thward Feb 2014 #23
Even 20 Democratic politicians does not =" the left." merrily Feb 2014 #25
Willie Brown is never carful with words. RandySF Feb 2014 #29
Purple Jesus seveneyes Feb 2014 #5
In my day it was called jungle juice loyalsister Feb 2014 #8
Jimmie Jones progressoid Feb 2014 #6
Whoa zappaman Feb 2014 #12
That's the danger of "dancing with the one who brought you." nyquil_man Feb 2014 #9
Boy, that looks like it would be an interesting read. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #14
Very RandySF Feb 2014 #15
Truth in the old expression: Everywhere, there are people just dying to be told what to do. Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #16
the appeal of authoritarianism Lex Feb 2014 #20
There is a peculiar comfort in hearing some lurking mumbler in dark glasses. Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #26
or hearing a voice in your head from the sky Lex Feb 2014 #27
Randy, have you read the book "Season of the Witch"? Arugula Latte Feb 2014 #17
To be fair, could anyone have predicted a Jonestown before Jonestown happened? hedgehog Feb 2014 #24
Quite a few, actually. That's why the concerned relatives lobbied to have him investigated. WatermelonRat Feb 2014 #28

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
7. He was extremely clever
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 10:05 AM
Feb 2014

He made himself look compassionate by inviting people in black communities and other disaffected populations into his temple. He met Rosalyn Carter and VP Mondale a few times. His manipulation of compassion and liberal ideas was what made him so effective.

RandySF

(59,643 posts)
10. It was simple.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 10:33 AM
Feb 2014

It looked like a great idea to work with the temple at first and Jones knew in which direction the political winds blew. What's more, he had an army of "volunteers" at his command.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
11. I'm not saying Jones had any particular ideology
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 10:16 PM
Feb 2014

I'm saying for whatever reason the Bay area on the left at the time was where he was able to recruit his cult. Hence, "a weird time for the left".

merrily

(45,251 posts)
13. He was an egomanical, incesting, pedophiliac madman.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 03:52 AM
Feb 2014

What revelance would the words of a person like that about his political beliefs have to sane people of any political leaning?

What an odd thing to say, especially for a Democrat.

former9thward

(32,128 posts)
18. It is odd that a Democrat would ignore history.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 12:14 PM
Feb 2014

Jones had a long history with the left -- long before he became a "madman". He started attending Communist Party meetings and rallies in 1951. He left the CP when they started to criticize Stalin. He eventually became a Maoist. By the mid-60s he was thinking he was the reincarnation of Lenin. Despite his nuttiness at that time he was a go-to guy for liberals in SF. Moscone credited Jones with his winning the Mayorship and appointed Jones to head up the SF Housing Authority.

In September 1977, California assemblyman Willie Brown served as master of ceremonies at a large testimonial dinner for Jones attended by Governor Jerry Brown and Lieutenant Governor Mervyn Dymally. At that dinner, Brown touted Jones as "what you should see every day when you look in the mirror in the early morning hours... a combination of Martin King, Angela Davis, Albert Einstein... Chairman Mao."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

History is what it is and no one should run away from it.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
19. I am not runninng from anything. The OP describes scary things that Jones
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 12:42 PM
Feb 2014

was doing to people in 1975-77, not anything that he did in 1951.


Reply 2, which is to the OP, says that "it" --the time described in the OP--was a weird time for "the left." Not even just the entire left of San Fransisco, or even the entire left of California, mind you, but a weird time "the left." Most people in the country, left or right, had no idea who Jones was until the tragic events, but that is beside the point. The point is, why would the scary actions of Jones make those years an odd time for "the left?" When questioned the reply was simply that Jones had identified with the left.

Regardless of Jones's activities before 1975-77, I don't think that anything Jones did made 1975 to 1977 an odd time for "the left." I never questioned that Jones may have identified with the left at some point. I said at I found it odd that anyone, especially a Democrat would say that Jones made that period a weird time for "the left." I also find it odd that you interpreted my comments as my running from history.

Do we say that the existence of some religious cult leader today, sane or insane, makes this an odd time for the entire right? Did we say that the pedophile priest scandals made it a weird time for "the right?"





former9thward

(32,128 posts)
21. The fact is that the 'left' embraced Jones in that time period.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 12:56 PM
Feb 2014

So that in itself is weird. Political movements have good and bad times. The middle 70s were bad and a lot of people were into stange stuff. The anti-war and student movement had collapsed and people were moving in all different directions. Go back and look at articles in left publications at that time. You will see articles claiming the deaths being attributed to Pol Pot in Cambodia were all "imperialist lies." Yeah, weird.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
22. No, a few San Fransisco Democratic politicians were taken in by Jones.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 01:07 PM
Feb 2014

As I said, most of the people in the country, left or right, never heard of Jones until the killings in Jonestown.

You will see articles claiming the deaths being attributed to Pol Pot in Cambodia were all "imperialist lies."



What does that have to do with 1975-77 having been a weird time for "the left" because Jones identified with the left? In fact, what does that even have to do with most of the left of that day? I doubt a majority of left--meaning anyone from Conservadem to card-carrying members of the Communist Party--were writing those articles or even agreeing with them.

former9thward

(32,128 posts)
23. A few???
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 01:13 PM
Feb 2014

I guess the Mayor and city council of SF is just a "few". I guess VP Mondale and First Lady Carter were part of the "few". If you don't think Jones was reflective of the left -- and no the left does not consist of "conservadems" -- fine. We disagree.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
25. Even 20 Democratic politicians does not =" the left."
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 01:23 PM
Feb 2014

Conservadems are certainly to the right of the Democratic Party, but they are still left when it comes to the politics of the nation.

RandySF

(59,643 posts)
29. Willie Brown is never carful with words.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 04:52 PM
Feb 2014

I've seen him speak in person numerous times and he always says whatever comes to mind and then some.

 

seveneyes

(4,631 posts)
5. Purple Jesus
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 08:43 AM
Feb 2014

Long before the famous Jones Kool-Aid party, young and enthusiastic teens would mix up Everclear + purple Kool-Aid and called it Purple Jesus. The two always seem related when I hear of either.

nyquil_man

(1,443 posts)
9. That's the danger of "dancing with the one who brought you."
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 10:10 AM
Feb 2014

Every so often, you'll be dancing with a creep.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
14. Boy, that looks like it would be an interesting read.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 03:53 AM
Feb 2014

Weird and creepy, though.

I remember that whole story.. it was surreal.

RandySF

(59,643 posts)
15. Very
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 10:37 AM
Feb 2014

I remember reading in The Mayor of Castro Street that two of Harvey Milk's volunteers who were Temple Members were eventually found dead in their home.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
17. Randy, have you read the book "Season of the Witch"?
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 11:56 AM
Feb 2014

It chronicles the amazing times (both great and horrific) in San Francisco mainly in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Interesting stuff. I lived through some of that time in the Bay Area but I was a kid so it has been good to revisit things like Patty Hearst, Jim Jones and the Moscone/Milk murders as an adult.

WatermelonRat

(340 posts)
28. Quite a few, actually. That's why the concerned relatives lobbied to have him investigated.
Tue Feb 25, 2014, 02:31 PM
Feb 2014

I'm not sure if they specifically predicted a mass suicide, but a lot of people knew that Jones was dangerous and willing to use violence to enforce cult discipline and intimidate outsiders.

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