General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMorning Joe crew is saying we can't raise Minimum Wage to $10/hour tomorrow
including the Democratic candidate for Lt. Governor in South Carolina, Nicole Wallace (works with Sarah Palin as VP nominee, can't vote for her, doesn't say anything), and of course Joe.
the Minimum Wage proposals don't have it going up to $10.10/hour immediately, but in steps.
these people are creating a straw man of the actual proposal so they can oppose it, and from the Democrat on today's panel, that is horrendous.
(Mika to her credit, didn't get involved in that part of the discussion, but was rather unequivocal in support of raising it and castigated the others for opposing it --pointedly asking Joe if he thought $7.25 was high enough)
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Everyone says the same thing we are doomed it will be a disaster .And every time, we have done just fine. It is like watching a boring repeat of an average TV show.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)melm00se
(4,997 posts)they are correct.
If a business' labor costs jump almost 40% (or more as Warren Stupidity states) overnight, these types of businesses (who, in some cases, operate on thin profit margins) could be damaged to the point where they fail.
If, OTOH, the minimum wage increases in stages (say 12.5% per jump), some of these businesses will be able to adapt and restructure in such a way that will allow them to absorb this labor cost increase so that they come out of the increase period healthy.
avebury
(10,953 posts)which allows some of the larger companies to bank more profits while paying their workers poverty wages because the tax payers will pick up the tab for the public assistance that the workers need to just survive. Corporate greed should not come at the cost of keeping their own workers in poverty.
melm00se
(4,997 posts)who do pay minimum wage and act as you describe, there are many smaller businesses (these are the ones to which I refer) who are owned by individuals who, if hit by a 40% jump in their labor costs, would probably fold in short order.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Any law that requires a large increase in minimum wage, should have a minimum number of employees restriction, or other safeguards.
melm00se
(4,997 posts)open up a whole can of worms and can create some seriously unintended consequences.
There was a thread here a couple of days ago that discussed a two tier minimum wage system based upon age. In that thread, it was pointed out that companies would hire (as much as possible) workers who fit in the lower income tier and then terminate them when they passed into the higher minimum wage bracket.
I can see something similar happening as companies structure their operations to get under the employee number requirements.
For example: let's say that the the line is drawn at 20 employees. Business A employs 18 and wants to expand (say open another location). if the company goes over 20 (which a second location would do) their labor costs would jump 40% (using, for arguments sake, the $7.25/hr to $10.10/hour minimum wage proposal). I can see the owner of Business A creating a second and separate (on paper) business (call it Business B) all to avoid the maximum employee threshold.
While it can be said "well, we'll just close that loophole!", this is just one example. I am certain that there are extremely creative people out there who can propose and execute strategies to keep their labor costs down.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)accepting the proposition that there's a plan to raise the minimum wage from 7.25 to 10.10 overnight.
cut the crap.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)like type of job where it's acceptable, time of day and operation of machinery restrictions, etc. which would mitigate the incentive to churn through only teen employees rather than have them solely as part of the mix.
I'm not in favor of a teen subminimum, just pointing out how to circumvent companies trying to use that ruse.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)it's not something people need to be protected from
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)But if I'm making 15/hr and my two workers are making 10/hr each, then the min wage goes to 15/hr, I'm not paying them 15/hr and only getting 5/hr myself for very long.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)how does that help?
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Three employees, me @15, two others @ 10. That's a total of 35 per hour to go around. If the min becomes 15, then I only get 5 per hour. No hours cut, no firing and only my income is cut by 10 per hour because they now get 15 each. My business dies shortly afterward because I die of starvation. No winners.
How does that help?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)when exactly would the raise to $15/hour happen that you'd starve to death?
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)And the starving was not really serious...the dog would eat me first because I could not afford to feed him.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)has Obama proposed that?
how long would it take to reach $15/hour?
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)My original response was a confirmation that there can be special cases. Not sure what road you are on.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)if there's no example of a $5/hour increase in the minimum wage and no prospect of such an increase, then basing one's decision upon a hypothetical using that as an example is also bullshit.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)Reality doesn't exist until it happens. Very much like the bullshit gun statistic debates.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and when you aren't being conservative on the minimum wage, you're being conservative when it comes to opposing gun control.
wasting our time.
progressoid
(50,011 posts)CTyankee
(63,926 posts)he know DAMN WELL that isn't the plan immediately...it is phased in over several years. I feel sorry for the guy in that he has to stoop to hypocrisy and out and out distortion. And he calls himself a Dem. I was thoroughly disgusted...
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)i'm not saying one has to be 100% unified, but if one thinks they are being self serving by running as a D, then they actually try to harm the D's to get elected, they are harming themselves, ultimately.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)because we already did it the first of the year. And believe it or not, the sky has not fallen. To my knowledge, no businesses have left town, not even the ones who squawked about doing so while trying to sink the ballot measure.
bullwinkle428
(20,631 posts)have to start paying their respective "staffs"!
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)in fact, she seemed incredulous that someone could think the present 7.25/hour is enough.